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 Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think this thread has struck a chord!
At some point you simply just have to draw a line and say I'm not buying anymore liability insurance. I'll take my chances.
Yes, Lori, I have E & O, but ONLY because my #1 favorite company requires it or you can't get contracted. It's an EXTREME waste of money. I may as well burn that money because I see ZERO value in that policy and it's not cheap.
Attorneys sue corporations and insurance companies. They are not going to chase after "Joe the Plumber" to win a multi-million dollar judgment that would never be paid.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Todd, you make some very valid points...and honestly one of the main reason's I have never had an umbrella....because I think in most cases people will take what they can get...I do differ (maybe I'm not real clear on this)...with you in that I think the average responsible adult needs to carry a min of say 100/300/50 just to be responsible...you and I know you can't even buy a decent used car for 10k any more, and 25 or 50k in med bills and a bi can be laughable...that is my point.
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Lori
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| Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I'll take my chances |
So Gary let me ask you...you carry 10k in pd, you wack a guy and cause 15k in damages...do you not even feel a moral if not legal obligation to make that right?
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oh and btw I don't blame allstate, they're in the business of selling ins. and fear sells...they can't have a naked chick on their 'spokes models' back...so this is the next best thing.
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Lori
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: |
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So Gary let me ask you...you carry 10k in pd, you wack a guy and cause 15k in damages...do you not even feel a moral if not legal obligation to make that right?
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Gary Spicuzza, *SAFE
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:57 am Post subject: |
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gary, honey you just quoted me and left?
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Lori
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: |
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No, I clicked "Submit" when I was going for the quote button.
 Had a great reply all outlined that is now in cyberspace pergatory never to be brought back to life because you my dear replied to this thread while I was in "Edit" mode. 
 Do you have liability insurance for my LOST literary masterpiece?
Where's Duewee, Cheatum and Howe????
You ARE going to Court now missy!
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | you my dear replied to this thread while I was in "Edit" mode. |
well exxxxxxxxxxxxccccccccccccccccccccccccccccuse me....you can still edit after it posts ya' know...  | Quote: | | Do you have liability insurance for my LOST literary masterpiece? |
yeah, but that's not covered...there was no (great) "loss" (ok, sorry I just HAD to...  ) | Quote: | | Where's Duewee, Cheatum and Howe???? |
They went to breakfast with the firm of "B.Ring, I.T. Awn, and U.R. Knutts"
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Lori
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Attorneys sue corporations and insurance companies. They are not going to chase after "Joe the Plumber" to win a multi-million dollar judgment that would never be paid.
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But if Joe the Plumber makes 250K per year (and has 50/100/50 auto coverages), that lawyer will chase after him.
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LifeIsGood
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| Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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so, Gary answer my question please... | Quote: | | So Gary let me ask you...you carry 10k in pd, you wack a guy and cause 15k in damages...do you not even feel a moral if not legal obligation to make that right? |
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Lori
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: |
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Lori wrote: so, Gary answer my question please...
| Quote: | | So Gary let me ask you...you carry 10k in pd, you wack a guy and cause 15k in damages...do you not even feel a moral if not legal obligation to make that right? |
Holding my feet to the fire are we?
I'll play.
Okay, $10,000 in property damage coverage and I'm the at fault driver and I caused $15,000 in property damage?
That means my insurance company pays $10,000 and I am legally responsible to pay the other $5,000 out of my pocket. Right? Maybe?
That's not reality nor how it actually works in the real world.
In the real world, the insurance company of the person whose car I smashed would pay for the repairs and collect the $10,000 from my insurance company, then they'll send me a *subrogation letter saying, "Hey pal, you smashed our insured's car and it cost us $15,000 to fix it, your policy limit was $10,000 that was paid by your insurance company. Your balance due to us is $5,000."
Now let's remove "feelings." The person's car that I smashed is now FIXED. So the rhetoric of, ("do you not even feel a moral if not legal obligation to make that right?") is a moot point.
My answer is maybe YES and NO!
Yes, if the person didn't have any coverage or wasn't made whole by either his insurance company, my insurance company or both.
No, if the insurance company sends the subrogation letter. Absolutely NOT, no way, no how, would I send one dime voluntarily to the insurance company. ZERO, zilch, nada, not one dime. I would make the insurance company go file their papers. This would NEVER happen for $5,000. If the insurance company refused to enforce their legal right to recover from me that's THEIR problem, not mine. I DO NOT legally owe the insurance company one dime unless and until a Judge says I do.
*subrogation
1 : an equitable doctrine holding that when a third party pays a creditor or obligee the third party succeeds to the creditor's rights against the debtor or obligor; also : a doctrine holding that when an insurance company pays an insured's claim of loss due to another's tort the insurer succeeds to the insured's rights (as the right to sue for damages) against the tortfeasor called also equitable subrogation.
STAY TUNED FOLKS...this is going to get lively!
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I'll start with 'shame on you' I thought you had a conscience..and move on to | Quote: | | This would NEVER happen for $5,000. |
It's a good damn thing I'm no longer a subro specialist cause I GAURANTEE you it would've happened...here's the real world...from someone who actually did this for a living....I routinely would pay for the insured to file in small claims court get the judgement then enforce that judgement..WITH A GARNISHMENT if necessary. three times a year I could file in the companys name when necessary, (back then 1987 and 8 you could only file three times in small claims per name...I wouldn't bet on ANY company not pursueing you...
So you're saying if that same party is UNINSURED then you would feel a moral and legal obligation to pay the 5k?  Especially since they have no carrier hounding you for THEIR money?
Moving on now it's this same accident you have 25k bi limit, you kill a child, and severely hurt the driver..they do not have UIM....still nothing huh? Not even a twinge?
You can say take feelings out of it all day long, but the fact of the matter is NOTHING in any claim happens without some kind of feelings coming to the surface...in this case the guy you caused 15k worth of damage is pissed because his carrier only reimbursed him 2/3rds of his deductible....
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Lori
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| Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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If they would do it for 5K (which insurance companies will - I have seen it happen too..many times), they will certainly do it for more.
To go to the extreme, you have an accident and kill the sole provider to the family. You have your 25K policy that goes to the widow to take are of her kids. She doesn't/can't work...mortgage payments lapse, blah blah blah.
They now lose the house, etc.
Any little twinges?
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LifeIsGood
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Can we be a little more dramatic?
We've gone from $15,000 in property damage and subrogation to:
| Quote: | | you kill a child, and severely hurt the driver. |
| Quote: | | they do not have UIM [Uninsured/Underinsured Motorist] |
| Quote: | | To go to the extreme, you have an accident and kill the sole provider to the family. |
| Quote: | | She [wife] doesn't/can't work...mortgage payments lapse, |
| Quote: | | They now lose the house |
| Quote: | | Any little twinges? |
Nope. Nothing. This is an Internet Message Board were anonymous persons post their opinions, stories and comments.
Believe it or not the vast majority of auto accidents are cause by young males between the ages of 16 and 25. Us middle aged guys with halftimers are pretty safe reliable drivers. Sorry to throw in facts with the hyperbole.
To dramatize horrific events, then say, what if that happened wouldn't you feel just horrible you didn't have more liability insurance is absurd.
It's rhetorical non-sense.
Now let's put some of this into context. I'm in Florida where BOTH Allstate and State Farm, et al, refuse to write homeowners insurance and have non-renewed thousands policyowners.
Those peoples rates have went from $600 to $800 per year to $2,500 to $3,000 and now Allstate has the unmitigated audacity to run a bogus courtroom drama TV commercial to scare up liability insurance BECAUSE it's a safe risk.
And you want me to send those bass towards more money for a non-event that more likely than not would NEVER occur.
Allstate, State Farm, Nationwide, Liberty Mutual, et al, can KMA. If I was insurance commissioner in Florida I'd kick your sorry glasses out of the state.
Getting back to this thread.
As I stated above:
| Quote: | | At some point you simply just have to draw a line and say I'm not buying anymore liability insurance. I'll take my chances. |
AND especially from companies that will drop you in a New York minute at the first hint of a claim.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can we be a little more dramatic? |
OK, now I've got to stop laughing...pot/kettle/kettle/pot...come on Gary you are the drama king on the board... geeze louise talk about drama, how did HO policys get into this? (although I agree).....You've been in insurance long enough to know that if it weren't for ''what if's'' no body would ever buy any insurance...after all that's what insurance is coverage and protection for 'what if's'......
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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You beat me to it Lori. I've been talking about auto accidents all along. The insurance companies deciding not to write HO policies in Florida due to risk from Hurricanes have nothing to do with this. I'm surprised you didnt' mention moritorium on HO in California due to earthquakes. And don't forget State Farm not writing HO in Mississippi for the last 2 years (we still do though).
I hope no one ever has to have this happen to them - and if it could happen to you but you could walk away and live your life without twinges...then good for you.
Me however, no amount of insurance would be able to "fix" what I would feel if I was at fault in a situation like this.
And no one really has addressed the UIM part of this. But then again, there are those, and Gary could be one of them, who figure, "I don't need Life insurance or UIM. I'm not leaving anybody anything. I'm dead. What do I care?"
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