| Message |
Author |
|
 Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here's the deal...if (God forbid)...you hit and hurt or kill someone in my family...with little coverage, ESPECIALLY being (what is that you call yourself again? oh yeah) a S.A.F.E. Buddy I would come after you with everything I've got till my dying breath...and don't you think a jury would find that interesting? Mr. Gary, tell us again, you call yourself a Self Appointed what? So YOU must have a lot of money socked away right? but didn't want to spend any on your OWN insurance huh, weren't too worried about protection your own assets? Then the judgement for 1 million comes down...and Gary I'm sorry but there just HAS to be a way to collect that judgement.
_________________
"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
|
Lori
Moderator
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 7547
Location: Missouri
173.06 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
A. No lawyer wants to take personal assets in a situation like this. This is scare tactics (nothing new over the last 20 years) to make people distrust the best available system - juries.
B. Practically, the lawyer would take a Covenant against the at-fault, preserving his client's right to pursue his own UIM coverage and any other at fault coverage. Don't have UIM? You should - and plenty of it, because you don't know how much the person who hurts YOU is going to have.
C. Are we really feeling sorry for the person who injured/killed the other person due to their own negligence? But all the same, no lawyer is going to actively try to ruin someone who is judgment proof.
D. Why did this case go to trial? SIMPLE - Allstate gambled with this family's future by refusing to pay a fair value to the injured/killed party, gambled that they could "beat the system" by getting a jury that looked at people who bring lawsuits as "greedy." Usually when an insurance company loses that kind of gamble, the family stuck with the bill will, though means legal and proper in most states, begin a process to make the insurance company pay the rest - usually in conjunction with the injured people.
It is a complex business, folks, and what things look like on the surface are usually way more complicated. If you are in the business, you already know and understand everything I have said - but if not, you will no doubt be scratching your head at some of this. Can't be helped.
Bottom Line - Allstate is sleazy for running this ad, which is wrong in so many ways. Yes they want to sell more insurance - reasonable - but they also want to poison people so they don't trust courts and juries - very unreasonable.
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You mean to say that if the family had 25K in liability insurance and the driver killed the sole provider of a family, the lawyer would tell the family to take the 25K and be happy with it? The lawyer would refuse the case?
I doubt it. That is why the case went to trial.
Sleazy? Sounds like you might have your own agenda here.
_________________
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. - Ferris Bueller |
|
LifeIsGood
Senior member
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 584
1.18 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
It works like this. In exchange for a Covenant not to Execute (agree not to pursue personal assets) a suit can still be brought, but the at-fault is protected. This then allows the family to bring a claim against THEIR OWN UIM coverage (which is why you should carry plenty). You can control how much UIM you have, but not how much liability someone else has. Many times the lawyer and the grief stricken family will take the limits even though NO UIM because (A) that money is available now, and (B) At fault does not have anything to "get." Most people are judgment proof, meaning that no matter how hard you try to collect against them, there just is not anything over the amount the State has said you cannot have to satisfy a judgment.
If the unlucky family was also unlucky enough not to have UIM as part of their package of insurance, there is not much more to do. A judgment takes a long time to get, and $25K now to get over the hump of life is better than $25K and a useless piece of paper three or four years from now, which is how long it would take to process the jury trial and inevitable appeals. Meanwhile, the insurance company has the money on the table in exchange for money now.
What would you do - take the money now? or wait for the same money (less, because it does cost to take a case to trial) much later, along with a pretty piece of paper?
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | What would you do - take the money now? or wait for the same money (less, because it does cost to take a case to trial) much later, along with a pretty piece of paper? |
Me, personally? A lot would depend on the circumstances. We have plenty of life insurance in place so if either one of us had something happen, the other would be taken care of.
Now, if it was a genuine accident - I just might take what the policy has and be done with it. However, if there was another reason for the accident - racing, alcohol, cell phone use - something that the driver could have prevented from happening, then I will put the screws to them for the rest of their lives.
I will make sure they never forget what they did to me and my family.
There are a lot of people out there who don't have ample amounts of life insurance so where it would be tempting to take the 25K, knowing that it won't even come close to taking care of bills (etc), they might wait it out.
Having large liability limits might keep that from happening. It would be a lot tougher for that family to walk away from 250K, 500K, 1.25 million than it would 25K.
_________________
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. - Ferris Bueller |
|
LifeIsGood
Senior member
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 584
1.18 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lori wrote:
| Quote: | | Then the judgement for 1 million comes down...and Gary I'm sorry but there just HAS to be a way to collect that judgement. |
Yes, Lori in FLORIDA you can have ALL my assets that are NOT exempt.
You CANNOT touch any assets that are EXEMPT.
Click THIS LINK
For example the Florida constitution, Article X, Section 4 states:
| Quote: |
Homestead; exemptions.--
(a) There shall be exempt from forced sale under process of any court, and no judgment, decree or execution shall be a lien thereon, except for the payment of taxes and assessments thereon, obligations contracted for the purchase, improvement or repair thereof, or obligations contracted for house, field or other labor performed on the realty, the following property owned by a natural person:
(1) a homestead, if located outside a municipality, to the extent of one hundred sixty acres of contiguous land and improvements thereon, which shall not be reduced without the owner's consent by reason of subsequent inclusion in a municipality; or if located within a municipality, to the extent of one-half acre of contiguous land, upon which the exemption shall be limited to the residence of the owner or the owner's family. |
So you CANNOT force me to sell my homestead to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
| Quote: | 222.11 Exemption of wages from garnishment.
(2)(a) All of the disposable earnings of a head of family whose disposable earnings are less than or equal to $500 a week are exempt from attachment or garnishment.
(b) Disposable earnings of a head of a family, which are greater than $500 a week, may not be attached or garnished unless such person has agreed otherwise in writing. |
So as a head of family you can't touch any of my disposable earnings up to $500 per week and I have to agree in writing for any amount above $500 to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
| Quote: | | 222.14 Exemption of cash surrender value of life insurance policies and annuity contracts from legal process.--The cash surrender values of life insurance policies issued upon the lives of citizens or residents of the state and the proceeds of annuity contracts issued to citizens or residents of the state, upon whatever form, shall not in any case be liable to attachment, garnishment or legal process in favor of any creditor of the person whose life is so insured or of any creditor of the person who is the beneficiary of such annuity contract, unless the insurance policy or annuity contract was effected for the benefit of such creditor. |
Money that's in cash value life insurance or any annuity contract is exempt. So you CANNOT force me to cash in my life insurance or annuity to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
| Quote: | | 222.18 Exempting disability income benefits from legal processes.--Disability income benefits under any policy or contract of life, health, accident, or other insurance of whatever form, shall not in any case be liable to attachment, garnishment, or legal process in the state, in favor of any creditor or creditors of the recipient of such disability income benefits, unless such policy or contract of insurance was effected for the benefit of such creditor or creditors. |
If I become disabled you CANNOT get one penny of my disability benefits to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
| Quote: | 222.21 Exemption of pension money and certain tax-exempt funds or accounts from legal processes.--
1. Maintained in accordance with a master plan, volume submitter plan, prototype plan, or any other plan or governing instrument that has been preapproved by the Internal Revenue Service as exempt from taxation under s. 401(a), s. 403(a), s. 403(b), s. 408, s. 408A, s. 409, s. 414, s. 457(b), or s. 501(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. |
So you CANNOT touch any money in my IRA or 401k to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
| Quote: | 222.22 Exemption of assets in qualified tuition programs, medical savings accounts, Coverdell education savings accounts, and hurricane savings accounts from legal process.--
(1) Moneys paid into or out of, the assets of, and the income of any validly existing qualified tuition program authorized by s. 529 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, including, but not limited to, the Florida Prepaid College Trust Fund advance payment contracts under s. 1009.98 and Florida Prepaid College Trust Fund participation agreements under s. 1009.981, are not liable to attachment, levy, garnishment, or legal process in the state in favor of any creditor of or claimant against any program participant, purchaser, owner or contributor, or program beneficiary. |
So you CANNOT touch any money in any college tuition savings plan to satisfy your $1,000,000 judgment.
So what's left Lori for you to get?
| Quote: | 222.25 Other individual property of natural persons exempt from legal process.--The following property is exempt from attachment, garnishment, or other legal process:
(1) A debtor's interest, not to exceed $1,000 in value, in a single motor vehicle. |
Okay, you got me!
My car is worth more than $1,000 click HERE to learn what you must legally do to get the car.
Now what's interesting is your beef on this thread is my $25,000 worth of liability insurance. It's not that I don't have auto insurance it's the fact that's it's low and not in the $100,000 or $300,000 range.
So are you saying if I had $100,000 or $300,000 of liability insurance that you wouldn't sue me for the $1,000,000?
Why not make the lawsuit for $5,000,000? $20,000,000? None of it would make any any difference as to the actual amount of money you would be able to ACTUALLY collect.
You could make me sell my car and would receive the proceeds above $1,000.
I'll say it again, attorneys sue corporations and insurance companies they DO NOT sue "Joe the Plumber" to win a multi-million dollar judgment where there isn't any money to collect.
_________________
Gary Spicuzza, *SAFE
Copyright 1956.
No Rights Reserved.
*Self Appointed Financial Expert |
|
GarySpicuzza
Forum Expert
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 944
Location: West Pasco County, FL
237.20 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:31 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
That's one reason lawyers exist - to talk folks off of the emotional binge of thinking that "Boy I am going to ruin this guy's life..." Moving on, and not hanging on unnecessarily is almost always the right thing to do if hanging on will not change things appreciably. Having large liability limits is great - but this is what to take away from this - make sure your own UIM limits are very substantial - put the fate in your own hands - don't rely on the good judgment of some jackass who can't drive.
And let me tell you - drinking and driving or a moment's inattention - it doesn't make anyone less dead or hurt. And there are only so many "screws" you can put into someone inside the legal system. One earlier poster basically advocated frontier justice - realize that the court system exists to replace lynching, mob rule, and frontier justice. I don't think we make ourselves a better country or people by taking revenge for revenge sake.
Lots of the really bad things - racing, drinking - also have a criminal component, so there is some solace there. But again, it is done in a fashion that comports with due process - they have an attorney - someone on their side - to make sure that the guilt and punishment is meted out fairly. Fair punishment sounds silly unless it is someone you love being punished, or god forbid, you.
Remember - the system works. And it is pretty simple - you break it, you pay for it. The system is fair and works well 99 times out of 100. It's like anything else - it is the truly odd things you hear about - the things that are out of the ordinary. Nothing newsworthy about 2000 trials being held today that all ended with a fair and reasonable verdict. Nothing newsworthy about 1900 commercial airplanes taking off and landing without a hitch.
It is the odd, the unusual, that are "newsworthy" - the exceptions.
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
One more thing. Remember we are talking about a MADE UP scenario which was MADE UP by Allstate to further its own agenda. They would not have skillfully MADE UP this scenario then paid oodles to air it unless it met their nefarious needs and intentions. They are not our buddies, they are not our pals, they are insurance companies. They love to take it in, hate to pay it out. That is the business they have chosen and what they do.
Keep asking yourself - as you always should - what is being sold here? A product? An agenda? A belief system? SOMETHING is always being sold or they would not have spent the money.
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: | | I have to agree in writing for any amount above $500 |
Dude, I'll take the 500 a week..that's 2k a month, 22k a year...tax free...yep, that'll be fine...you won't forget what you did as long as you live, and write that check every week will ya'? Yeah, actually I think that'll work out better than a lump sum... | Quote: | | Why not make the lawsuit for $5,000,000? $20,000,000? |
I did the jury only awarded 1mil. | Quote: | | Now what's interesting is your beef on this thread is my $25,000 worth of liability insurance. It's not that I don't have auto insurance it's the fact that's it's low and not in the $100,000 or $300,000 range. |
Actually my beef started with your 10k in pd limits and your opinion that you don't owe the injured party all the damage you caused...that's my beef... | Quote: | | So are you saying if I had $100,000 or $300,000 of liability insurance that you wouldn't sue me for the $1,000,000? |
I'm saying if you had enough coverage or character to take care of all the damage you caused, then no more than likely I would not make it my life's work to wreck yours... | Quote: | | I'll say it again, attorneys sue corporations and insurance companies they DO NOT sue "Joe the Plumber" to win a multi-million dollar judgment where there isn't any money to collect. |
If there is money there yes, they will... | Quote: | | make sure your own UIM limits are very substantial |
Do ALL states offer UIM? I don't know I assume they do, however I do KNOW that all states do not require that it be offered...there are tons of people that have no idea it even exsists!
_________________
"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
|
Lori
Moderator
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 7547
Location: Missouri
173.06 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is too funny!
Lori, you are simply in denial.
No attorney would pursue your case to win a million dollar judgment that would never be paid.
This is silly:
| Quote: | | Dude, I'll take the 500 a week..that's 2k a month, 22k a year...tax free...yep, that'll be fine...you won't forget what you did as long as you live, and write that check every week will ya'? Yeah, actually I think that'll work out better than a lump sum... |
Did you forget this part?:
| Quote: | 222.11 Exemption of wages from garnishment.
(2)(a) All of the disposable earnings of a head of family whose disposable earnings are less than or equal to $500 a week are exempt from attachment or garnishment.
(b) Disposable earnings of a head of a family, which are greater than $500 a week, may not be attached or garnished unless such person has agreed otherwise in writing. |
I'm not going to "agree otherwise in writing."
So, where are you getting that you get $500 per week?
_________________
Gary Spicuzza, *SAFE
Copyright 1956.
No Rights Reserved.
*Self Appointed Financial Expert |
|
GarySpicuzza
Forum Expert
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 944
Location: West Pasco County, FL
237.20 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I misunderstood it...so you're saying you make less than | Quote: | | All of the disposable earnings of a head of family whose disposable earnings are less than or equal to $500 a week are exempt from attachment or garnishment. |
ok....I know that flordia sure does have an awful lot of attorneys willing to accept judgement satisfaction cases on a conten. basis....so someone is collecting these judgements Gary. Otherwise every dead beat in the world would live in flordia...
_________________
"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
|
Lori
Moderator
Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 7547
Location: Missouri
173.06 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
To clarify one point, if someone wants to confess judgment in a smaller type case (person v. person, no insurance involved) many times that is the only way to resolve it. In most states, even a confession of judgment is only an extremely difficult to foreclose upon lien on real estate - the party holding the judgment is hoping - usually fruitlessly - that the person owing the judgment will want to buy or sell real estate during the period of the judgment. In such cases, a $1300 judgment is actually a pretty small item to take care of at a real estate closing, many times the creditor will waive interest to get it (finally) paid, and the lucky thing happens. Once I had a guy (our judgments are good for 10 years) call me after 9 years, his wife had found a house they HAD to buy, I told my client to waive the interest, he paid off the judgment out of closing, everyone happy. Debtor got a break, creditor got money he had long forgotten about, I even made a small fee (finally after having done the work almost 10 years earlier.)
Every state's law is different on such matters. Bankruptcy law is mostly federal but even there some of the exemptions are based on individual state law. Just a disclaimer.
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lori, my UPL, Pro Say, Per Se' S.A.F.E. understanding of that Florida wages garnishment statute is that no disposable wages up to $500 per week of the head of family can be garnished and if one has disposable income above $500 per week the head of family has to agree in writing to the garnishment otherwise like the statute says:
| Quote: | | (b) Disposable earnings of a head of a family, which are greater than $500 a week, may not be attached or garnished unless such person has agreed otherwise in writing. |
| Quote: | | ok....I know that flordia sure does have an awful lot of attorneys willing to accept judgement satisfaction cases on a conten. basis....so someone is collecting these judgements Gary. |
Yes, the auto accident attorneys down here advertize 24-7-365 but they simply settle the case up to the policy limits.
There's never a "judgment" in these type cases, it's settled out of court because of the threat of litigation. In our hypothetical, if you sue me for $1 million, but then settle for $25,000 that's NOT a judgment. We settled. There isn't any judgment and as part of our $25,000 settlement agreement we enter into a joint stipulation to dismiss the case with prejudice so the case can never be brought in the future.
Every Day, please jump in and correct if I'm mistaken.
_________________
Gary Spicuzza, *SAFE
Copyright 1956.
No Rights Reserved.
*Self Appointed Financial Expert |
|
GarySpicuzza
Forum Expert
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 944
Location: West Pasco County, FL
237.20 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know Florida is very kind to...um...how to say....those who are guilty/responsible for bringing pain upon others (OJ, Head of MCI, etc).
Love the state...we go to the beach at least three times a year.
I'll just say I'm glad that I'm not an agent there.
_________________
Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it. - Ferris Bueller |
|
LifeIsGood
Senior member
Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 584
1.18 Dollars($)
|
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Simple Facts |
|
|
True, Gary, 95 percent of all our cases are resolved without a judgment being involved. Half of the rest of them have to have a judgment recorded for some technical purpose, the other half percent are oddballs of one kind or another - way out on the edge of the bell curve - outliers. Most cases only wind up going all the way to a jury when one side or another is too stubborn to listen to reason. Not often, since we do this all the time, and we pretty much know what is fair for most cases. We also do a lot of ADR (mediation, arbitration, etc.) The number of cases that go all the way to jury trials and then to judgments are very very small. And most of the time it is the insurance company refusing to pay a fair settlement, rather than someone who wants too much. Why do you think Allstate wants to poison people's minds? So they can have a better chance in court when they shortchange someone. Sad, but true. Unfortunately, injured people don't have a lobby (except for trial lawyers, which term has been so poisoned itself that "everyone hates them").
The lawyers who advertise are not of my species - honorable attorneys mostly despise them, they only bring more criticism to a rather noble profession - helping people who are hurt and need help. I am proud of what I do, and so are most all the lawyers who do what I do - it isn't easy money - and the Allstates of the world fight dirty against nice people - like you!
_________________
Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved. |
|
Every Day
Guest
|
|
Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next 
