Chrysler's own reports performed 30mph crash tests using AM hoods.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:53 am   Post subject:   

I will try to answer ALL of your questions:



Quote:
are OEM parts perfect?




No. Sometimes they have small shipping dents and must be exchanged. On one occasion, in my experience, a Honda door was dimensionaly incorrect. The warranty claims that Keystone pays out to shops for defects is in my estimation is about 100 for every one OEM.



Quote:
But without going into details let me ask... are OEM parts perfect? Let me know what you get around to answering that question and we can go from there (I'll help... from the same time frame there had been 52recalls on the same OEM hoods, most were related to the latches). Also, why have car manufacturers not told the public about the testing they have done on AM parts, including hoods? Do you think it's because they have not? Of course they have... Chrysler's own reports performed 30mph crash tests using AM hoods. Want to know what they found?



I assume they performed as well as an OEM?



Quote:
Sorry, I'll give you just one more question... are AM parts legal? Same proposal... let me know what you want to answer this question.





Most are legal. Ford has gone after some manufacturers where they hold patents. If a copyrighted logo is stamped or embossed into the part it absolutely canot be duplicated legally. For instance you will not find a Mustang rear bumper cover that has Mustang embossed into it available as an aftermarket part.



Quote:
are you ready to pay a whole lot more for your insurance as a result? Of, feel free to answer that question as well.





It depends on what kind of vehicle I am insuring. If its a 7 year old Hyundai then the answer is no. If its a three year old Lexus, then yes I would. I should have a choice between two kinds of polices. As it is now the consumer has no idea that AM parts will be substituted until a loss occurs. This is quite deceptive on the insurers part. This type of deception is not tolerated in any other industry I can think of. If the OEM's really wanted to do away with aftermarket parts it would be very easy. Just emboss or imprint copyrighted logos into all sheet metal parts. The OEM's want to sell new vehicles first and foremost. Parts can be more of a burden than a profit center for them.



The issue is that consumers should be told before a loss occurs that aftermarket parts will used so that the consumer can make an informed insurance purchase decision. Springing this on them and the repairer at the worst possible time , after they purchased the policy and then involved in an accident, is just wrong.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:05 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
The OEM's want to sell new vehicles first and foremost. Parts can be more of a burden than a profit center for them.
Huh? Vehicle manufacturers make WAY more money from parts then from selling their vehicles!

Quote:
The issue is that consumers should be told before a loss occurs that aftermarket parts will used so that the consumer can make an informed insurance purchase decision. Springing this on them and the repairer at the worst possible time , after they purchased the policy and then involved in an accident, is just wrong.
In many cases it's a liability claim... which means laws apply. In some cases it's a 1st party claim and the insurance contract applies. If the person does not read their policy or ask questions or if the person does not know the laws, is the insurance company to blame for this?



As confirmed above, AM parts are not illegal. We've also established that there is also no indication that they are less safe then OEM parts.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:19 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
I should have a choice between two kinds of polices
I'll agree with you there...and there is a company or two that offer this (expensive) endorsement...



900500, I'm not sure if your an adjuster, collision repair tech/owner, or somewhere in between...but let me tell you (you may already know this)...since a/m parts have come so far, in quality and availablity the prices of oem have went thru the floor...to the point that nearly all of them are price matching a /m completely on every sheet! Now you and I both know they are 'still' making money on those parts, they are not giving them away....prior to this the prices were double/triple what they are now...if for no other reason, (and I think there are plenty of other reasons too)....this has to be seen as a good thing...for everyone...(well except now the big boys are making a reasonable markup rather than 100% or better Rolling Eyes )


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:49 pm   Post subject:   

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:11 pm   Post subject:   

I had to laugh a little...

Quote:
In exchange for a discount on their premiums...
and from Eversman...
Quote:
If this is successful, all the major insurance companies will do this and there will be no independent collision repair industry
Reminds me of Chicken Little. What Eversman is _really_ saying is that people should _not_ be given the choice of using DRPs for a reduced premium. We just can't have that! Imagine... insured's with _choices_. Everyone should be _required_ to pay higher premiums so that independent shops can charge what ever they want.



But this thread is really about using AM parts on newer vehicles. Feel free to start a new thread.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:45 pm   Post subject:   

I'll go on record (think I already did but hey)...NO I think the OP should get new oem parts on the 2008 vehicle...with less than 12-15k miles...



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:03 pm   Post subject:   

Doing a final bill on a 08 Mustang right now. Fender $149.68. Core support $457.92. Push down here, pop up there. Rivits $3.65 each! About $.20 aftermarket. I see little if any overall savings using AM parts, but what do i know.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:09 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
but what do i know.
That sure is a familar quote Wink


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:15 am   Post subject:   

Hi 900500,



This one seems to be an useful link for all!

Its quite true that the accident victims are left unaware of the choices that they have following a mishap. If they would come to know that they have the right to deny materials or get things repaired using materials that they feel is good...that would certainly make them happier..But I'd still need to see what the others have to say regarding whats said to have been goiung between the insurers & repairers. Even I have to see whether the regulators would still carry on sleeping or wake up to get things for the better!



Regards, ArindamSenIndies

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:18 am   Post subject: after market parts  

many after market parts have been tested and are certified (capa) which means they have gone through a very strict process of testing to insure fit, safety and durability. the aftermarket parts of yesterday are totally different from today's. in fact in some cases the capa certified parts have proven to be better than oem( which many of these oem parts are manufactured in mexico with cheap labor) i would ask if they are going to be using capa parts on your vehicle. if there is a problem using the aftermarket part the insurance company has to make it right. The shops really have little to no control over whether to use aftermarket or not. If insurance company has stated on the estimate to use aftermarket parts the shop has to do it or pay the difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:27 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
many after market parts have been tested and are certified (capa) which means they have gone through a very strict process of testing to insure fit, safety and durability.




Please share any documentation that you have or know of where any aftermarket parts have been tested for safety or durability.



Quote:
in fact in some cases the capa certified parts have proven to be better than oem( which many of these oem parts are manufactured in mexico with cheap labor)




Please share any parts that you personally have used that you believe are better than oem. The oems use Mexico and Canada for many pieces of trim or bumpers that need to be chrome plated because manufacturers can not afford to chrome plate economically in the states because of hazardous waste restrictions. We are simply polluting our neighbors property and taking advantage of lack of laws protecting the safety and wages of third world country workers. I have yet to see an A/M part that was equivalent in fit, e-coat, corrosion protection. I'll agree that they are certainly better than they were even five years ago but are not equal to or better than oem parts. In most cases the plastic headlite mounting panel reinforcements are lighter than and are not as precision fit as oems. The spot welds on A/M parts are usually smaller and fewer in number than oem. The contours of A/M parts most likely will have stress marks and buckling at bends compared to oem parts.



Quote:
The shops really have little to no control over whether to use aftermarket or not. If insurance company has stated on the estimate to use aftermarket parts the shop has to do it or pay the difference.




Unless that shop has a contractual arrangement with the insurer, the insurer can not force the shop to comply with anything. Only the vehicle owner can authorize any repairs to their damaged vehicles and they can choose to have what ever parts they wish to have their vehicle repaired with. The shop is not bound by the terms and conditions of any policy that a vehicle owner may have with their insurer or that of the negligent third party that may be responsible for the cost of repairs to a vehicle. Shops owners are not licensed attornies nor are they public adjusters, they have no legal or statutory right to negotiate for the repair of property or property damage settlements on behalf of the vehicle owner under all states unauthorized practice of law statutes.



Quote:
If insurance company has stated on the estimate to use aftermarket parts the shop has to do it or pay the difference




Incorrect; the vehicle owner has to pay the difference and they can then invoke their appraisal clause, sue in small claims for the difference or simply live with imitation parts on their vehicle. If you live in a state where statutes require that if an insurer prepares an estimate with aftermarket or imitation parts, and those parts do not meet the definition of the law in terms of fit, quality, and equal to the original, you can then claim the insurer did not make you whole. Simply because a policy says that they can use non oem parts, that does not give an insurer carte blance to use inferior or cheaper parts if they do not meet the like, kind, and quality definition of the state statutes.



Many adjusters and appraisers will make the claim that they simply do not have problems with their preferred shops that are mandated to use higher percentages of these parts to control cost. If those shops truly complained regularly about the quality of those parts and the fit, they would simply be removed from their preferred programs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:41 am   Post subject:   

900500, You said "For instance you will not find a Mustang rear bumper cover that has Mustang embossed into it available as an aftermarket part. "

Does the vehicle owner have to except an after market bumper or can thye have one that Ford makes? If the request the Ford bumper do they have to pay the difference between that bumper and the A/M bumper? Just wondering because most people who buy mustangs usually keep the car looking as good as can be and woudl want the bumper with the horse on it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:34 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Does the vehicle owner have to except an after market bumper or can thye have one that Ford makes? If the request the Ford bumper do they have to pay the difference between that bumper and the A/M bumper?
Mustang isn't the only bumper cover with embosed lettering...he's right they won't come aftermarket, they will come remanufactored though, and if there is not one availabel remaned, then the adjuster will write a new oem and no the owner would not have to pay the difference.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:01 pm   Post subject:   

Speaking of ReManufactured.... Isn't that some used, damaged part that wasn't good enough for someone else



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:19 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Speaking of ReManufactured.... Isn't that some used, damaged part that wasn't good enough for someone else
Used, not damaged. So basically it's OEM and much closer to what was on the vehicle then anything else.
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