Geico/Aftermarket Parts

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:36 pm   Post subject: Geico/Aftermarket Parts  

Okay, went and got an estimate from a Geico express site today for a 2008 Toyota Matrix. The car is about 5 months old and has 5,000 miles. They want to give me aftermarket parts on a practically new car. Even worse, the shop that's attached to the Geico Auto Repair Express site is a certified Toyota repair shop.



1. Isn't a 5 month old car new enough to get certified parts?



2. Doesn't a certified shop have to use certified parts?



3. Do I have any recourse here? Is there any sort of leverage when dealing with a Geico adjuster? Does the lawyer card work? How about mentioning that I work for a local newspaper?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:18 pm   Post subject:   

I'd tend to agree that the vehicle seems a little new to be using AM parts. Have you called your adjuster to find out what GEICOs company policy is on this? Why not start by asking them this question before you do anything else. Perhaps a simple mistake was made.

Quote:
Doesn't a certified shop have to use certified parts?
I'd love to know what a "certified shop" _is_... let alone what a "certified part" is.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:07 am   Post subject:   

I would say make the call, I would be agravated if they put after market parts on a car this new.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:50 am   Post subject:   

Well, some states require the customer's consent for using aftermarket parts on the car while repairing. You can find your state's guideline on this issue. Also you're required to tell the adjuster that you'll rather prefer OME parts on your car.



The aftermarket parts, though need to pass the quality test before being used on a car, may affect the future trade-in value of the vehicle, not to mention the affects on the performance of the car.



~Jeremy

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:55 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
not to mention the affects on the performance of the car.
How would they affect the performance?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:01 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
1. Isn't a 5 month old car new enough to get certified parts?
I think what you mean to say is OEM parts...



Quote:
2. Doesn't a certified shop have to use certified parts?
Any shop whether a 'certified' (whatever that means) shop or not, can use any parts they want...



Quote:
3. Do I have any recourse here? Is there any sort of leverage when dealing with a Geico adjuster? Does the lawyer card work? How about mentioning that I work for a local newspaper?
"Lawyer cards'' never work with adjusters, we don't mind dealing with lawyers at all, in fact we'd rather on some claims... Rolling Eyes



I don't know of any carrier that doesn't have their own SOP (standard operating procedure) about a/m parts...I further don't know any that allow a current year/with less than 12k to have only new oem parts...but of course I don't know what all carriers procedures are either....What is the part(s) they are wanting to use, and are they a/m or used? Call your adjuster be nice, and ask something along the lines of, 'hey, is it really ok to put a/m parts on my 08 with 5k miles? I've asked around and most carriers don't use them until they are atleast a year old or have over 12k miles, I'm really concerned about this" and see what they say...Let us know the actual parts, and state you are in and I'll do some checking for you....





Jeremy only state I know of is Minn...course could be others, but that's the only one I'm sure about...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:17 am   Post subject:   

Hi Lori, the Minnesota law strictly restricts the use of aftermarket parts on cars. The other states also have enacted laws on the use of AME parts, which requires the insurance company to inform the car owners about the use of AME parts on their cars.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:24 am   Post subject:   

Yes, they all have to be identified on the estimate...the part of his comment I was referring to was this...

Quote:
Well, some states require the customer's consent for using aftermarket parts on the car while repairing
They are the only state, that I personally know of, (which of course isn't close to definative... Rolling Eyes ) that requires the owners ''permission''...


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:32 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
How would they affect the performance?




Tcope, with the aftermarket parts, you actually don't have a control over the quality of the parts. They are often manufactured at offshore plants where the labor is cheap.



These parts can actually be of equal, good or even bad in quality and if they are bad then of course it'll affect the performance of the car.



~Jeremy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:47 pm   Post subject:   

I think we know how the manufacturer of a Toyota feels about putting imitation parts on their product still under warranty Laughing

Quote:
Warranties: Toyota vehicle factory warranties transfer when repairs are completed with new Toyota Genuine Parts. The use of used salvage and/or imitation/counterfeit parts is not covered by the Toyota transferable limited warranty on such parts and all adjoining parts and systems which are caused to fall or trust by those parts.

Used Salvage: Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc., is an environmentally-conscious corporate citizen. We understand the merits of recycling and promote them. Additionally, we are concerned about our customers and maintaining Toyota vehicle image, value, functional and safety systems, and transferable factory warranties. Since Toyota does not warrant used salvage parts, we want to make sure customers are aware of the consequences of having used salvage parts installed on their vehicles. At this time, we believe there are no systems or processes in place to regulate the quality of used salvage parts in market. Therefore, we are concerned about improper use of used salvage parts, i.e., wrong application as well as the use of damage materials.



Supplemental Restraint Systems (SRS): Due to the critical nature of the supplemental Restraint Systems, also known as air bags, Toyota does not support the use of any used salvage or limitation parts for repair. Only new Toyota Genuine Parts should be used in repairs.




Poster if this were my vehicle, and the insurer insisted on using parts that were not made by Toyota, I would certainly channel the liability back to the insurer that specified them on their estimate or claiming that is all they will pay for. I would channel the liability back to the shop that agrees to use these parts that Toyota says will void my warranty.



Poster, are you insured by this company or do they insure the party that damaged your car?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:21 pm   Post subject:   

Advise the repair shop that you will be the pickiest customer they have ever seen. Take many high resolution photos of the original panels on the opposite side of damage. Most insurance companies place the burden of aftermarket parts quality on the shop if they are a direct repair shop for that particular insurance company. In most cases all the shop has to do is demonstrate that the part has defects or does not fit 100% by snapping a photos and then they can order brand new OEM parts. Oftentimes you cannot see all of the parts defects until after they are painted. In that case most insurance companies will usually pay to redo the job with OEM parts. The big problem with that though is the blended adjacent panels will need to be resprayed and the next panels behind the blend panels will now need to be blended. It can become a very costly and time consuming proposition to completely strip off the aftermarket sheet metal and replace it with OEM sheet metal. You can always offer to pay the difference in cost between original and imitation parts yourself and then take the insurance company to small claims court and roll the dice. Next time you shop for insurance be sure to inquire if they use genuine OEM parts. Only a handful still do so you must do your homework.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:45 pm   Post subject:   

I would demand new parts. I mean, 5 months for a car is practically brand new anyway.



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:27 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
The use of used salvage and/or imitation/counterfeit parts is not covered by the Toyota transferable limited warranty
No they don't warrenty other peoples parts... those AM parts have their own warrenty. But lets be honest... how often does a fender or bumper fail.
Quote:
and all adjoining parts and systems which are caused to fall or trust by those parts.
Nothing out of the ordinary here... again, how often has a fender caused a door to fail.. or a door causing a 1/4 panel to fail. It just does not happen. Keep in mind, we are not talking about damage from an accident (as Toyota does not warrenty this)... we are talking about an AM (somehow) failing and then (somehow) causing an adjacent part to fail.
Quote:
Additionally, we are concerned about our customers and maintaining Toyota vehicle image, value, functional and safety systems, and transferable factory warranties.
Toyota is concerned about the people who own their cars keeping up their "image"? [/quote]Since Toyota does not warrant used salvage parts, we want to make sure customers are aware of the consequences of having used salvage parts installed on their vehicles. At this time, we believe there are no systems or processes in place to regulate the quality of used salvage parts in market. Therefore, we are concerned about improper use of used salvage parts, i.e., wrong application as well as the use of damage materials. [/quote]

I think it's obvious to most people that Toyota simply does not make money off salavge or AM parts so of course they don't "recommend" them. This statement is simply being made as Toyota wants people to use new OEM parts... perhaps because this is the way Toyota makes most of their money? Heck, they don't even stand behind their used OEM parts!



But the kicker to this statement is that it says NOTHING about the quality of AM parts! Basically, only that they don't warrenty other companies parts.
Quote:
I would channel the liability back to the shop that agrees to use these parts that Toyota says will void my warranty.
Except that Toyota does not say that at all. But I think I understand what you really meant.



I say that no carrier should use anything other then new OEM on such a newer vehicle! I had GEICO and this was their policy (i.e. they don't correct this situation), I'd drop them by the end of the week.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:26 am   Post subject:   

The big issue with aftermarket sheet metal and structural parts is that aftermarket parts have never been crash tested nor are they required to be crash tested. Vehicle manufacturers spend great sums of money crash testing their vehicles and timing the supplemental restraint systems (airbags). Aftermarket parts manufacturers do not crash test their parts or determine if airbag timing is altered. So no one really knows if they are or are not as crashworthy as an OEM part. I suspect if they were held to the same crash test standards as a new car manufacturer the cost of an aftermarket part may be close to or more than the OEM counterpart.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:21 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
The big issue with aftermarket sheet metal and structural parts is that aftermarket parts have never been crash tested nor are they required to be crash tested.
Don't tell that to the IIHS, who is just one of the organizations who [/b]has[/b] crash tested the parts...



"However, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) says that with the possible exception of hoods, there are no safety implications of using cosmetic crash parts from any source. This has been demonstrated by crash tests conducted at the IIHS. In addition, an independent, third-party nonprofit organization, Certified Automotive Parts Association (CAPA), rigorously inspects generic automotive parts and guarantees the quality of those that meet its high standards. Generic crash parts do not interfere with a vehicle's existing warranty and are often manufactured by the same supplier and in the same manner as OEM parts."



Please, let's not start the AM part quality thread all over again (_please_)... it's been beat to death already. This thread is about using AM parts on a _new_ vehicle. I think almost every carrier won't use AM parts on a new plus 2 or 3 years vehicle. I'd be interested in hearing what GEICOs policy is.
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