HELP! PD & BI suits, insurer not protecting me

by Guest » Tue Dec 09, 2008 06:51 am
Guest

Hello All!

I have been reading threads in this forum for hours, looking for the answers to my questions, but what better way than to ask? Any advice is greatly appreciated, as this has been going on for far too long and I am at my wits end. WARNING: this post is much longer than I intended it to be, sorry!

Ok, so from the very beginning:Summer 2007, The Accident
I will start by saying no one ever understands this without a picture, but I will do my best lol.
I was exiting a gas station with the intention of crossing the lane with traffic going east, to go west on Road A. The gas station is at an intersection, and therefore the exit is very close to the intersection (maybe 3 ft from the end of the curb of the intersection) After entering onto Road A going west, I intended to make a right from Road A onto Road B (going North).
Now that is what I intended, what actually happened was as I waiting at the exit of the gas station for traffic to clear so that I could cross the east bound lane, an suv traveling west on Road A, approached the left turning lane. Noticing that I was waiting to cross traffic and the awkward position of my car being so close the intersection of Road A and Road B, the suv stopped a full car length before the left turning signal at the intersection. Cars began pulling into the left turning lane behind her. I watched the driver of the SUV look around and then wave me to proceed in front of her to the westbound lane on Road A. I could see clearly enough to cross the eastbound lane, but the suv and other vehicles in the left turning lane did block some of my view of the westbound lane. After seeing that the eastbound lane was clear, and not seeing any cars in the westbound lane, looking behind/ through the cars in the left turning lane, I saw that the light for the westbound lane had turned yellow. I exited the gas station approx. 5-10 mph and crossed the eastbound lane, pausing in front of the suv to quickly check the light and traffic in the westbound lane. Since I was go close to intersection/light, I did not have room to position my car in the westbound lane facing west, so I intended to move into the right turning lane while the light was red, and wait for traffic to make my right turn onto Road B going north. After seeing the light was still yellow and not seeing any vehicles, I begin to move into the westbound lane.
ACCIDENT.
Apparently, there was a vehicle in the westbound lane, and it was a nissan titan pickup truck (I was driving a hyundai elantra). The driver hit my right passenger side just before the front door, basically directly onto the tire (bending the axle and tire completely under), my car started to spin left from the impact pushing my right rear towards the truck, when she hit me again, this time on the back passenger side behind the back door. I went across the intersection to the west side of the light (the activity was on the east side) and I ended up in the eastbound lane. The pickup veered of and hit a car on Road B facing South waiting at the red light.

Now I will admit, I never saw the truck coming, not sure why, I don't know if I didn't look far down the road enough, because I was calculating people slowing to a yellow light, or if one of the other cars in the left turning lane blocked my view of it.

The suv who waived me, came over to me while I waited for the ambulance in my car. She apologized and said she felt it was her fault because she waved me on, she said she did look and did not see the truck either, and estimated the truck to be going 30-40 and appeared to be trying to beat the light before it turned red.

I never saw the truck or the other vehicle's damage that day, nor did I meet or speak to the other drivers.

LEGAL ACTION:
OK, now if that makes any sense, this is what happened next:
Pickup driver (who turns out to be a 55 year old women) hires an attorney and files a suit against me for personal injury. Her attorney makes no attempt to speak with my insurance company before the suit is filed, and a deposition is scheduled.

I hired an attorney (possible bi and pd suit) and he submits a claim to the pickups insurer State Farm and they out right deny it, claiming that I was traveling North on Road B and ran the red light striking the pickup.

Deposition: the attorney provided by my insurance company tells me that he is also an RN, and thinks the plaintiffs claims are without merit. She has physical therapy bills that were rejected by her own insurance company (NY-no fault, sorry should have mentioned that sooner) and claims that she will need both of her knees replaced (although has no surgeries scheduled, she will just have them "eventually") The problem, my attorney told me is that we have no idea how much her knees had degenerative damage from age before the accident, and how much was actually from the accident. She owns her own locksmith company, where she herself is a locksmith and claimed to loose a ridiculous amount of money in lost wages ( I don't know the actual figure her attorney presented). She claimed she had a green light, it was never yellow and she was traveling 35 mph (the speed limit) and I came out of no where and struck her car.
As for her attorney, he was obviously very surprised to hear my version of the story. When I indicated that she in fact, hit me, he demanded proof. I told him that I had taken pictures of the damage to my vehicle, all on the right side (which, unless I swung the right side of my car into the front of her pickup, indicates that she hit me).

After that fiasco, my claims adjuster, who from the beginning has refused to keep me up to date as I have asked, refuses to return phone calls, and simply doesn't seem to care what I say, told me that they were submitting an offer, $25k, the max of the policy (oh my policy was the ny state minimum, 25/50 pi and 10 pd- yes I know, I know!). I couldn't believe it, she outright said, well it is obvious that you were at fault and her damages are very severe. When I mentioned what staff counsel had told me about her injuries, she brushed it off any said none of it was worth fighting in court. So to my horror, they paid her the max (which she accepted and then happily filed a UIM claim on her own policy).

After calling my claims adjuster several times to retrieve all of this information including, if and when she had accepted the offer, she seemed to let it slip that they admitted 100% fault. I flipped out, got really upset with her, and asked how they were protecting my interests when she knew I planned on filing BI and PD claims of my own. She said it wasn't her job to check with me, and they did their job because no money will be paid out of my pocket. I brought up several points that would diminish my liability and place some on other parties and she simply said that they were not worth anything in court. After I was brought to tears, she agreed to speak with her supervisor about the liability agreement. When I called her back (because she refuses to call me), she nonchalantly said, oh he agreed to change it to 75%.

NOW, I have received an intent of suit letter (we have be hired by blah in the matter of blah) from attorney's representing State Farm asking twenty something thousand for property damage paid out for the pick up.

My adjuster assured me that she has contacted them several times before the letter and they never answered her inquiries about PD.

They once again, thought it appropriate to offer the max, as of yet there has been no word of acceptance or denial.

TODAY, I received a letter from my wonderful adjuster who is now probably afraid to call me, saying that I should expect to be served because they had been served for a property damage claim filed by the car that was waiting at the red light (which was stuck by the pick up, and which I never touched) for some amount exceeding the 10K (the police report indicates a 96 cadillac)

I receive an additional letter stating that my insurance company prorated the 10K and offered this driver 2300, which was promptly denied.

So, if you have gotten through all of that, THANK YOU!! I know it is a lot, but I am writing this at 1:30am on a whim!

My Questions:
I was previously told that the pickup and the car driver (both insured by State Farm) were paid by their insurance company for their property damage through their own collision policies. How can this driver receive payment for his vehicle and then again from me? Isn't that double recovery, shouldn't State Farm be the one trying to recover from me?

How can he being suing for more than 10K for a 96 cadillac?

Don't attorney's do asset checks before filing suits and turning down settlement offers? I am 23, in grad school, with over 100k in student loan debt, credit card debt, I don't own anything and I live paycheck to paycheck. I really can't understand this driver's attorney's game plan by directly filing an action and turning down an offer.

How can they offer 10k to state farm for the pickup driver and then turn around and say they are going to pay the car driver 2300? Then they wouldn't be able to pay state farm.

I am TERRIFIED because I can't figure out what this cadillac owner (who is 74 btw and had no injuries) wants, I am pretty sure he already got paid, and I don't know why an attorney would advise turning down an offer when I have no assets.

I am also TERRIFIED because my claims adjuster keeps telling me that she doesn't think that state farm will accept the offer, and to be prepared to go to court. I don't understand, insurance companies are business people. Even if they spent 20K on reimbursing their insured, the pickup, it is a smarter business decision to mitigate their loses by accepting 10K, as opposed to spending money on a trial, to win a judgment against someone against whom doesn't have the money to collect.

I know that insurance companies and plaintiffs don't normally waste the resources to go after people with no money, but from what my adjuster has been telling me and from the actions taken, it seems as thought that is what is going to happen.

I have been so stressed about this situation and feel as though I have no control, my adjuster constantly reminds me that I can always hire an attorney to protect my interests, but I don't have the money.

PLEASE HELP! What should I do, what should I expect, what is and isn't reasonable in this case?



THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ THIS, AND FOR ANY LIGHT THAT CAN YOU SHED ON THIS VERY DARK SITUATION.

I am supposed to be studying for finals, but with all this going on, who could concentrate?

Thanks again :)

Total Comments: 10

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 07:46 am Post Subject:

I could write pages and pages of information but will attempt to be brief. Let me blend the two issues (BI and PD) together and try to put the BI settlements into perspective. You have 25/50 for BI and I'm betting the person in the truck has medical bills and general damages _well_ in excess of that $25k. Let me ask you a question... what if your carrier denied it and it went to court? You could very well have a $50k or $100k or even $250k verdict against you. You are worried about the PD suit and that only amounts to a few thousand dollars. If the BI suit resulted in a $100k verdict, you'd be on the hook for the remaining $75k! Now I understand you don't think the insurance company should pay as you don't feel you were at fault but there are two problems with this... 1) you are not a jury who will see that you pulled out right in front of this other person and caused her serious injury and 2) It's not your $25k vs $30k in defense costs plus the $25k in BI coverage that would be spend to try to defend this case. The hard part to understand is that your attorney is getting paid to defend you... period. That is _all_ that he does. But it's your insurance company that needs to consider the cost, your limits and the good possibility of an excess verdict and a bad faith claim from you if there is an excess verdict. So their opinions on the case might be different.

I doubt someone with a 1996 vehicle is going to have collision coverage. This person might be insured with SF but I doubt they have collision coverage.

Your insurance company needs to to the best they can to settle the claim for your $10 PD limits. As the PD will be well in excess of this amount, they pro-rated the $10k to the amount of each persons loss and offered them all a portion of the $10k. If they missed someone in this offer then they did not do their job.

Yes, people usually do make a demand before they file suit but there are attorneys out there that will file suit and then make a demand as they feel it gives them an advantage. I don't know the laws in NY but it's also possible that a judgement might allow them to garnish wages or attach liens. As you mentioned, you don't have any assets and usually attorneys won't even take a case unless they see some quick cash available.

Yes, I agree that SF should take their percentage of the $10k (it's not the entire $10k) but that is up to them. Something I'm seeing more and more of is that insurance companies farm their recovery out to attorneys offices. These attorneys are glorified collection companies. But they only know how to file suits. So that is what they do. They are not in business to make demands or work with people like collection companies. They file suits, get judgments and then go from there.

There is one other _slight_ possibility. The other attorney files suit against you for $xxxx in PD and obtains a verdict for this amount. It's much higher then your $10k PD limits. After that is all said and done, this attorney contact's his Bad Faith attorney buddy down the road and that attorney contacts you to represent you in a Bad Faith claim against your insurance company. If this suit is successful then the Bad Faith attorney takes 33% of your settlement and pays part of it to his buddy that referred the case. I -HIGHLY- doubt this is what will happen as it usually only happens when the case is worth much more money. But it's possible.

As far as your carrier accepting 100% liability. This really should not affect your claim. It's a business decision your carrier made and does not affect your view or right in the accident. If you ended up going to court, that information cannot be admitted. Also, your carrier changing their view from 100% to 75% on the BI does not change anything and I don't even know why they would tell you this. If the other person's BI demand was $200k and your carrier only had $25k, your percentage of liability could be reduced down to about 20% and the offer would be the same.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:02 am Post Subject:

I have been so stressed about this situation and feel as though I have no control, my adjuster constantly reminds me that I can always hire an attorney to protect my interests, but I don't have the money.



As far I know in property damage and bodily injury claims the insurance company provides the customer with an attorney to protect both his and their interests. Are they telling you to get an attorney at your cost?

Again, I have found it very confusing

I hired an attorney (possible bi and pd suit) and he submits a claim to the pickups insurer State Farm and they out right deny it, claiming that I was traveling North on Road B and ran the red light striking the pickup.



Please clarify whether you have already got an attorney or are waiting for the insurance company to provide you with the one.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 01:52 pm Post Subject:

coffee if i understand the OP right she got an atty for HER BI claim against the other vehicle...not to defend her...

Bad luck, well honey, what a mess...first off believe it or not they did the right thing getting that bi released for your policy limits...that part (as far as you are concerned is over and done with)...

I'm confused on the PD part...are you saying that FOR SURE they already paid the truck 10k? or they haven't paid ANY PD at all yet? If they have already paid 10k, then they screwed up and will have to pay the cadi out of somewhere...I guess the 'stupid adjuster' fund maybe... :roll: If they have not then they are correct in the pro-rata division of your limits...I would think that state farm would likely accept your 8k or whatever their pro-rata is...

NOW, I have received an intent of suit letter

This is from state farm right? Your adjuster should be given this letter asap and then promptly get her butt on the phone and talk to the atty and offer up the pro-rata of your limits of PD most likely they (meaning other involved partys) don't even know your PD limits are small...the adjuster should be able to handle and settle this with a phone call...

By the way I'm not buying this AT ALL..

My adjuster assured me that she has contacted them several times before the letter and they never answered her inquiries about PD.



The cadi is a different story maybe...Who is named in THIS suit? the owner of the cadi or state farm? if state farm then the cadi did have collision and they are subrogating you like the truck...if the cadi owner likely he did not have collision and has to come to you on his own...(also you would still be liable for the damage to the cadi even though YOU didn't strike it)..about the most i can come up with for any 96 cadi is around 5k but it could have extra low miles that could add some value...remember though they will always ask for way more than they expect to collect and since they are asking for more than your limit again, i doubt they know your pd policy limit...

State farm has advised you that their atty will defend you in both of these suits right?

I think you need to get clarity about the PD payment...did they FOR SURE offer up 10k to state farm on the truck? Also I think you need to ask this adjuster for copies of all correspondence related to your claim to day and from here on out you want copies..I don't think they can deny this at all...if so be sure and let us know, I'll check the NY fair claims practice regulations..

I'm so sorry this is happening but honestly I think you will be fine, also one more thing, honey I think they changed the liability kind of as a 'favor' to you, as it makes zero sense since they had already paid out....

Let us know if we can assist and how things are going also would be happy to hear when you receive all these copies you need to start building a file, always write down date, time, etc, when you call when you talk to someone (their name of course) etc...it's doubtful but a bad faith claim 'could' come out of this, you need to start building documentation...

Hang in there this will be ok.

Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 03:06 pm Post Subject:

Hi all and thank you for your responses, you guys obviously have a wealth of knowledge that you so generously share with people who need it.

Ok let's start with tscope:

I COMPLETELY agree with you. I guess I didn't communicate in my original post that I was extremely relieved the the BI suit filed by the pickup driver was settled. I know that in this case, a settlement was my best option. I am all for my insurance company paying an injured person, after all that is part of why I have insurance, and if she deserves it, she should get it. My problem with the settlement was 1) my insurance company attitude, of it's your fault and we don't care to look into proving it's not and 2) the discrepancy between what the staff counsel (who is an RN) told me about the severity of the pickup drivers injuries and what the adjuster thought and ultimately paid on.
I completely understand the insurance company's need to use business rational to make these decisions, I guess in this instance, from the information I was given, I didn't think that her injuries warranted that much money, and I was not convinced that some liable would be placed on her if brought to court.
Of course, my feelings about this offer due come from someone pointing the finger at you and saying "this is all your fault, now you will suffer" As for your point about a jury, I think there is more to be said. It is not as though this woman was the only one involved in this accident. Her enormous pickup DEMOLISHED my 98 hyundai (which I didn't have collision on). This accident happened the week I was supposed to start grad school, I missed school, work, went to a chiro for a year, and even went under anesthesia for a procedure done by chiro's (Manipulation Under Anesthesia). There are still days that I can't get out of bed and this is more than a year later. Not to mention the fact that my mother had given me that car when I graduated from college 2 months before, and I had no money to replace it. So of course, my insurance making me out to be the bad guy doesn't sit well.

I am going to call my adjuster AGAIN today, hopefully I will get ahold of her. Shortyl after the accident, I was definitly told by my insurance company that State Farm paid out property damage for BOTH of their insured, the pickup and 96 caddy. I remember freaking out because she told me the numbers state farm provided were 23kfor the 05 pick up and 8K for the caddy. Beyond the fact that those numbers were ridiculous, I knew I only had 10k in coverage. The adjuster said not to worry about it until we had received official paperwork showing what they paid out. We never did, this month is the first time pd has been at issue. If the caddy did have coverage, and he was paid, he cannot claim agaisnt me too, can he?

And as far as the caddy's attorney turning down the prorated offer of 2300, what the hell? Wouldn't it be malpractice to advise his client not to take this offer, when I only have the 10K, and he presumably did an asset check showing I have nothing to give? With no assests, how likely is it that this attorney is planning to garnish my wages to recover for this 96 caddy?

What about SF? business wise, I agree with you it is smarter to take whatever we offer them to cut their loses, but they have had the offer on the table for a while, and we have heard nothing. Again, what is the deal? Why would they not take it, when I have no money, do they want to garnish?

Clearly my adjuster screwed up here. SF came first for pd recovery of the pickup, and she offered them the full 10k. Then the caddy came along and she said she prorated and offered him 2300. I am assumed this cancels the 10k offer, since there is no longer the full 10k available? I know for sure the caddy turned down the offer, but I have not heard anything as to the 10k offer to SF, again I will ask the adjuster today.

As for the bad faith claim, I guess I'll have to cross that bridge when I come to it :(

For the liability %, I know that it is not binding in court if I bring a PI suit of my own, but couldn't it factor against me in court? I know that whether the liability was 100% or 75%, the payout would have been the same, but for my own piece of mind, for the sake of my auto insurance records, and in case this could play against me, it feel a whole lot better with 75%.

Now onto coffeeandcaramel:

My insurance company did provide a defense attorney for the bi claim, and has said that they will provide a defense attorney for the pd claims. However, since my adjuster is convinced that these suits are coming for more than my policy limits, she keeps reminding me that while the attorney provided for me does the best they can to ensure it is settled within the limits, there job really is to protect the insurer, and I should hire a defense attorney of my own to protect myself.

I have signed a retainer with a pi attorney for a possible suit on my behalf against the other party.

And last, but certainly not least, Lori:

yes to the attorney, and yes to the bi claim being over and done with!

To my knowledge, no pd has been paid out as of yet, only an intial 10k offer to sf, with no word on that and then the 2300 to the caddy driver, which was turned down. I am really crossing my fingers for sf to take whatever is on the table for them, but the longer they have the offer (over a month now) the more I worried I am that they are not going to (especially since thats what my adjuster keeps telling me).

The intent letter was from sf's attorney, which I forwarded to the adjuster, and the 10k offer was her response, and we have heard nothing.

The caddy driver himself (not sf) directly brought suit against me for his pd. The response of the adjuster was the 2300 prorated offer, which he rejected. I still need to clarify as to whether he had collision (i was originally told his pd was paid out by sf following the accident) or not. As far as his suit, again, what is the deal with his attorney? Why is the pickup that hit him not named in the suit? She is the one who did not get control of her car to avoiding hitting the poor guy, and she is the one with deep pockets! it would make more sense to me if we were both parties to his suit. I really need to find out what he thinks he should get for this 96 caddy. I mean even if it's like 5K, minus 33% to his attorney, and court fees, he is not going to end up with much. He should have filed a claim with my insurer on his own without an attorney and taken whatever they offered.

Yes my insureer will defend me in all instances.

I will get more info on the exact offers made for the pd for both parties, and if anything has been paid out.

Great idea requesting all the documents, although this adjuster hates me and will probably take forever to get this stuff to me.


THANK YOU, to everyone who has helped. I hope that I have touched on all points and answered all questions, please let me know if you have anymore input, I will let you know the information I get from my adjuster.

I just want these people to be paid and to leave me alone! This car accident has been the WORST thing to have ever happened to me, between the injuries and pain and the stress and worry with all these suits agaisnt me, I just want this to be over with ASAP, 16 months is pently!!

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 12:37 am Post Subject:

It is not as though this woman was the only one involved in this accident. Her enormous pickup DEMOLISHED my 98 hyundai (which I didn't have collision on). This accident happened the week I was supposed to start grad school, I missed school, work, went to a chiro for a year, and even went under anesthesia for a procedure done by chiro's (Manipulation Under Anesthesia). There are still days that I can't get out of bed and this is more than a year later. Not to mention the fact that my mother had given me that car when I graduated from college 2 months before, and I had no money to replace it. .

Honey, I'm sorry, but playing devils advocate here, a jury would likely not have much sympathy for your circumstance, and in affect say, ''sorry but you did cause the accident''...the others involved did nothing 'but for' your negligence, we wouldn't even be here...sorry but more than likely this would be the outcome.

If the caddy did have coverage, and he was paid, he cannot claim agaisnt me too, can he?

No he can't but they are subrogating you same as with the truck..

2) the discrepancy between what the staff counsel (who is an RN) told me about the severity of the pickup drivers injuries and what the adjuster thought and ultimately paid on.

I'm sorry but maybe all the reports were not in yet, but 23k in damages, means one heck of a hit...i can see how there could easily be this much in bi payments...

And as far as the caddy's attorney turning down the prorated offer of 2300, what the hell? Wouldn't it be malpractice to advise his client not to take this offer, when I only have the 10K, and he presumably did an asset check showing I have nothing to give? With no assests, how likely is it that this attorney is planning to garnish my wages to recover for this 96 caddy?


No it wouldn't be malpractice as long as he explained it all to the cadi owner, and the cadi owner, might've adopted the attitude of 'screw it' i want a judgement and garnishment, i don't care how much it costs me...talk and an innocent third party! he wasn't involved at all...so I'll be he's really pissed....they may change their minds about accepting the pro-rata but they also may not...if garnishment is allowed in your state for these types of judgements then yes, it 'could' happen..and I don't see much of a leg to stand on regarding this, the best you could hope for is the judge or jury decide that there is 'some' comparative negligence either with the 'waver' or the truck, but the larger majority is still going to be on you...''if'' and that's a big 'if' they decide to pursue it..

Why would they not take it, when I have no money, do they want to garnish?

They may still in fact I'd be surprised if they didn't they allowed their insured to accept your bi policy limits, and 'maybe' their insured also has UIMPD?

I am assumed this cancels the 10k offer, since there is no longer the full 10k available?

correct..

there job really is to protect the insurer, and I should hire a defense attorney of my own to protect myself.


no it's not their job is to get the claims settled within your policy limits...period

...(i was originally told his pd was paid out by sf following the accident) or not.

st farm might've paid him since their vehicle collided with him as an innocent third party. then though state farm would've had subro rights too so that must not have happened, more than likely state farm either didn't or they couldn't come to an agreement on his total loss, which it more than likely was. I can't believe this guy isn't claiming injuries! :o

She is the one who did not get control of her car to avoiding hitting the poor guy, and she is the one with deep pockets!

Well honey, because she wasn't at fault for the accident..

I mean even if it's like 5K, minus 33% to his attorney, and court fees, he is not going to end up with much. He should have filed a claim with my insurer on his own without an attorney and taken whatever they offered.

Yeah, that's what makes me wonder about an injury I don't know ANY attorney (and I know a lot of them) that will handle a PD only suit like this...not near enough money in it.

One other thing, what is the statute of limitations in your state? Ask your adjuster if you don't know that might be why the suits are coming now.

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:11 am Post Subject: PD suits- Spoke to Adjuster more info

Ok, so after several messages and calls I finally got a hold of my claims adjuster today, and she once again proved herself to be a moron. I did my best to get the information you guys suggested, here are the questions I asked and my adjusters responses:

Q1. Why is the caddy driver suing me? Didn't he already receive a payout from his own sf insurance?
Adjusters Answer: She mistakenly indicated the caddy driver as the plaintiff in her correspondence to me, the suit is indeed filed by sf as an attempt by sf to subrogate for the payout to the caddy driver.

Q2. So sf is attempting to subrogate for both the pickup driver and the caddy driver?
A. yes

Q3. You had told me that you offered sf the full 10K in response to their "intent letter", have they responded?
A. She claims that she never told me she actually offered them the full amount, just that she intended to (I think she was just saying she took care of it to get me off the phone when I called regarding her response to the intent letter). After receiving the intent letter from sf on behalf of the pickup driver and the actual filed suit by sf on behalf of the caddy driver, she claims to have offered 2300 to sf for the caddy, and 7700 to sf for the pickup.

Q4. What were the amounts requested by sf for this claims (how much did they supposedly payout for this vehicles?)
A. sf claims to have paid about 8k for the 1996 cadillac eldorado and about 25k for the 2005 nissan titan pickup

Q5. What has been the response to the offers?
A. sf was notified in both instances of my low policy limit of 10k, and made aware that my insurance company was willing to pay out all that they have. sf has not responded as to the offer regarding the pickup, and my adjuster thinks they are probably going to file suit like the other one. As for sf subrogating for the caddy, they outright denied the offer, and in their rejection letter say that they will come after me for money beyond my policy limits, and suggest that I pay either $500 every three months or one lump some of 5,500. ( I requested a copy of this rejection letter, the suit filed against me as I still have yet to be served, and a copy of my entire file, since my adjuster clearly can't handle sending me vital information). My adjuster said she spoke with the adjuster at sf for the caddy suit after she received the rejection letter because she was shocked that they did not accept it, and the sf adjuster apparently told her it is sf's standard practice to bring everything to suit and get a judgment to collect as opposed to settlements. She also told my adjuster that they go after peoples assets all the time.

Q6. Can you (my insurer) run an asset check on me to see what the hell sf thinks they can get from me. (As I said in previous posts, I am a grad student with over 100k in student loans, with 3 yrs of school still to go, credit card debt, and I own nothing, I don't even have a savings account, I live pay check to pay check- so unless so random relative died and left me money that I don't know about, I can't fathom what sf is looking for)
A. Claims adjuster will speak to her manager and thought this was a really good idea to check this out from our end to try and understand sf's decisions (clearly-she should have thought of this)

Q7. In the suit by sf subrogating for the caddy, is the pickup driver (or the policy of the pickup driver) named as a third party?
A. Yes, again she forgot to include this in the correspondence sent to me.

Q8. Why is sf asking for me to cover the full amount of the loss, with no request to the third party named? Why would they reject our offer stating that they need the whole amount paid by me? Shouldn't they have accepted my offer and then get what they can from the pickups policy?
A. She paused for too long, and then said "that is a very good point", as if it hadn't even occured to her!

Q9.The adjuster said she will probably receive the court filing for sf for the pickup soon, since the sf adjuster flat out said "suing people is our thing". I asked what the next step would be, would there be depositions?
A. She doesn't know, she hasn't had an actual pd suit in years and whenever a pd suit she has handled has escalated, she usually just receives demands for information about the insured assets, but in this case, since it is clear that i have none (and she said she told this to the sf adjuster she spoke to) she has no idea what will happen.

I hope I asked her everything that I was supposed to! While things are clearer now, I am even more terrified :( State farm seems really intent on coming after me, and it's driving me crazy because I have no idea why. I don't even know what to expect next. It doesn't make any logical sense to me nor does it fit the norm of what happens in similar situations, for state farm to expend the money to bring these suits against me to garnish my wages (which I assume is their only option since I have no assets). How much can they take? I live by myself and really would not be able to pay my rent if anything would be taken from my income. HOW WORRIED SHOULD I BE? AND HOW LIKELY TO DO THINK THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN? WHAT TO YOU THINK SF'S PLAN IS?

Another thing that has got me worried is a getting a judgment against me, and them being able to collect future money I receive. You see, I'm 23 and I grew up without knowing my father, and about 6 weeks ago I found his contact information online and called him. (very random and life changing, I am still trying to deal with it all) He was ecstatic to hear from me and it is all very exciting, BUT he has terminal cancer. He doesn't have much time, and I am worried that in attempt to make up for lost time, he will either try to give me money now, or he will leave me money in his will. He is flying me out to meet him (and a bunch of other family) in the beginning of January :). Wouldn't a judgment against me forfeit my right to things such as money granted to me through a will? This is such a horrible situation to be in :(

So, as you guys can see I have a lot on my plate right now, and while I am trying to focus on work and studying for finals, this situation has got me worried sick.

Any information/advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!! :)

Oh, does anyone think (or strongly suggest) that I hire my own defense attorney? I obviously don't have the money for it, but if it is absolutely necessary to avoid garnishing my wages and such, I will take out a loan or put the lawyers bill on my credit card.


THANKS EVERYONE :)

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:37 am Post Subject:

I was just about to ask what your field of study is...and does state farm know what it is? What is your earnings potential once you are out of grad school?

IMO this is very unusual for st farm to come after you...maybe because they are on the hook now for a bi under their UIM? I don't know...as I said it's highly unusual and for state farm to say they do this all the time, is crap, or they don't do it all the time in my area anyway. As to hiring an attorney, honey, I don't know that they would be able to help you anymore than the state farm attorney will...it will come down to whether or not there is an excess judgement or not...

As to your dad (congrats by the way in finding him)...state laws differ...so check to see what 'types' of collections on judgements are allowed, most states (all that i know of) will not allow life insurance to be attached, I honestly don't know but doubt if inheritance can be but hey you have a free lawyer at your finger tips, with the state farm atty, ask him...seriouly I would..

Stay on that adjuster about getting you all the info and stay on top of her as well about keeping you updated...more than likely your claim will be transfered to a more experienced adjuster once suit is filed...hopefully you will feel alot better and have a more open communication with the new one...Keep asking her about the asset check...also what about your degree program?

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 01:48 am Post Subject: Just read last post, wanted to respond

Lori, thanks once again for lending your time to my situation.

Trust me, I know that most of the fault of this accident lies on me, it just is maddening that no one else is willing to accept ANY responsibility. My defense staff counsel to the bi suit of the pickup driver told me that if she had not accepted our offer, and brought this to court, he would have brought the "waiving driver" in the suit because there has been reason case law to suggest that reliance upon a "waiving drivers" motion, and acting on that reliance to your detriment, can place some liability on the waving driver. Also, since I did not hit anyone from behind, I wasn't driving drunk or recklessly or maliciously, and I didn't break any traffic laws (circumstances I would expect would place 100% liability on me), I would think, as in most accidents some (no matter how little) liability is placed on the other party for not avoiding the accident. Since the damage to my passenger side did not start until almost my front door, this clearly indicates that I was already making my way into the lane when the pickup struck me, meaning she had time to see my car and react accordingly by trying to avoid it (there was a right turning lane should could have moved into to avoid hitting me, and there were no skidmarks, so she did not try to break) and once again, by not avoiding it I think that puts some of the liability on her. Alternatively, had the front of my car hit the side of her car just as I entered into the lane, that would show that she could not have seen me or avoided the accident. While all of these things are minute points, I think they add up and I while I do accept responsibility ( I will never ever ever ever respond to a waive again!) I don't think the pickup driver is a "poor innocent victim". I'm sure we both could play devils advocate back and forth, but I am sure that you could understand how much this accident has caused an upheaval in my life, and from my perspective how placing ALL the blame on me is unfair....but then again so is life right? :/

As for the caddy driver, of course I feel bad for him, he was minding his business sitting at a light. I have been told that by the time the pickup hit him, she had slowed down a lot, apparently the guy drove his caddy away, but the repairs cost more than the car, so they totaled it. Since the impact was light, I am not surprised that he doesn't have any injuries. But I thought the same as you, why come after me for so little, what else do you have up your sleeve? pi claim perhaps? I asked the adjuster that today too, and she said that was her concern as well so she checked and said that there has been no indication of an intent for a pi suit, and in fact he had not used ANY no fault benefits for any treatment of any kind, so I think I'm safe.

As for the amount of her pi claim, since NY is a no-fault state, all her medical bills are paid by her own insurer (unless she continues to seek medical attention after it has been determined that she no longer needs it, then she is billed) So any pi claim brought in new york can only be for "pain and suffering". Since the RN/defense counsel told me at her age the likelihood of her having degenerative knee problems before the accident was extremely high, it seemed to me difficult for her to prove that the extent of her injuries (which the RN/defense counsel pointed out was not strong because if she needed the knee replacements, more than one yr after the accident she would have had them already, or would have at least had them scheduled) were due entirely to the accident. But again, this is done and over with, so she can go on her merry greedy little way and collect the rest that she wants from her own underinsured policy.

I am worried about the "if" you speak of. Just as you speak of it, it seems like such the unlikely scenario, but as things have played out thus far it seems all too likely in my case, and I am struggling to understand why.

Now that my adjuster has clarified that the actual caddy driver has nothing to do with this suit, and state farm is the plaintiff, I think as a business decision, I don't understand denying the offer even more. I thought the scenario you presented was much more likely, a stubborn old man wanting money "no matter what". But this is an insurance company making these decisions. Since this suit is from sf uimpd doesn't apply correct?

I hope the attorney assigned to defend me on these pd suits feels the same way. . .I am waiting for one to be assigned.

This is what I think was confused in terms of payouts, both the pickup and the caddy were insured by sf at the time of the accident. the pickup driver was paid for her vehicle by sf from her own policy because she had collision (and that is why I received the intent letter, for sf to recover that from me). the caddy driver was also paid for his vehicle by sf from his own policy because he also had collision (and now this is the suit filed against me by sf, with the pickup driver as a third policy to subrogate the payout). I hope that clarifies things!

I think that the fact that sf named their own insured in the suit to recover for the payout to the caddy driver indicates that they do believe that she shares at least some fault in this accident.

I think the info above clarifies that the attorneys in the suit filed against me are sf counsel, so none of my thoughts about 33% to the attorney apply here with sf as the claimant.


I don't know the statute of limitations, but i can't imagine it can be this quick, the accident was 16 months ago, I will try to find out.


Hope I touched on everything, THANK YOU so much for taking to the time to respond and sharing what you know :)

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 02:01 am Post Subject: I suspected as much. . .

I was afraid to even mention possible earnings, cause the thought of that being their plan makes me sick to my stomach! Like it's not bad enough that I will be paying back student loans for 20 years!

The god damn attorney that the pick up driver hired in her pi suit asked me my highest level of education and if i was currently in school during the deposition. I'm currently in law school. . . . . .

So i guess if sf got that deposition (which had nothing to do with them i think, this attorney was hired by the pickup driver and he negotiated accepted the settlement, and sf was not involved at all in the process).

It is ridiculous to think that they are coming after me SIMPLY because I am in law school!!!!! Don't thinks like debt count against that? I mean i have to pay the government the $200k in student loans I will owe by time I graduate (again not for another three years) before I pay anyone else. the worst part of this is I want to work in public interest, always have and that is my current track in school, so I will be living poor and barely paying my student loans back as an attorney, IF I even take the bar! I have also thought about using my J.D. for government or non-profit work.

:( This makes me so depressed. I've supported myself through all my schooling trying to do something good with my life, to help others and all because of something that was truly an accident to the definition of the word, I am paying for my decision to continue my education.

this county is so freaking sue happy!!


Once again, thanks for your help Lori.

Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:00 am Post Subject:

I agree with you bad luck, that the truck should've had some (even 10%) put on them..and I have all the empathy in the world for you and your situation, was just trying to get across that in a court room that likely would'nt fly...that's all..and frankly your carrier dropped the ball, (shocking isn't it) you can't make payment 'then' decide or change liability...from 100 to 75% bet State farm has no idea about it ... because had they agreed to that then st.farm would've automatically paid you 25% (if you are in a pure comparative state)...so see that was just a 'tell her this and she'll stop crying' move IMO, and is of no benefit to you at all...as I see it..I agree (again) minimally they should've hit them with 'last clear chance' and got 10% out of that...and with the impact where it was...(i must've misread something because I thought your impact was to the front of the fender on back...not starting in the rear of the fender)...

Since this suit is from sf uimpd doesn't apply correct?

no UIMPD would apply, but now that I think about it they couldn't be using it, because in order to 'activate' that coverage they could'nt have had collision 1st of all and that wouldn't apply to the caddy driver anyway they paid him under their own PD coverage I'm sure, forget I mentioned the UIMPD it wouldn't/couldn't apply in this situation..(sorry)

Ok wait, I misunderstood something else...so truck and caddy are both state farm insured? is that right? with their own policys? so st farm did not pay caddy under the truck policy rather under their own policy (caddy)...right?

This makes me so depressed. I've supported myself through all my schooling trying to do something good with my life, to help others and all because of something that was truly an accident to the definition of the word, I am paying for my decision to continue my education.

No sweetie you're paying for having low limits that's all...I seriously doubt that st farm is banking on future earnings at this point, since you have so much school left ... if you were graduating this year had a firm lined up etc..maybe different, but not in this case...I'm like you at a loss that they would go this far...but in their opinion (i'm guessing) they have already spent a ton of money on this claim (collision, PIP, UIM etc)...so throw another 10k at it in atty fees and 'maybe' collect 20k or so back...over 30 years maybe? I also am surprised that they didn't send you a subro demand first, and try and get a promisary note signed, it's much easier and less expensive to get a judgement for default on that than trying a case like this....

I hope you get a really good atty as well that will see comparative negligence on this claim...what is your state negligence law do you know? what does the atty you hired for your BI and PD claim say? How about him/her quickly filing suit against the truck, perhaps that would leverage st. farm to accept your limits, and you both walk away? just a thought..

this county is so freaking sue happy!!


preachin' to the choir honey, you'd be surprised the crooks i see on a daily basis..

Once again, thanks for your help Lori.

we're all happy to help, please do keep us updated, and certainly any questions you have at any time...also don't forget stay on that adjuster! at least weekly calls!

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