by Guest » Fri Jan 25, 2008 05:42 pm
Here's my situation, I have no help/advice from anyone on what to do, so I need legal type advice!
We live in Florida. My wife got into an accident last week, and her can was undrivable from the scene. NOBODY was hurt. THe other driver was able to drive the car away from the scene. My wife was entering an intersection, where another driver signaled her to 'go ahead' and she procedeed to turn into the intersection, when another driver hit my wife's car. The officer arriving on the scene gave my wife a failure to yeild ticket. The other driver received a ticket for statute FL322.34(2) DNLS knowingly, which seems to be for driving with a suspended license (for a DUI or something similar).
My wife called me about the accident and it turns out that after calling my insurance company (progressive) we had missed a payment, which coincided with the end of a policy/start of a new one. They never sent a missed payment notice, because one policy(6mo period) expired and there was no missed payment notice to send becuase we had not started our new policy without that 'missed' payment, so we were informed that we were uninsured during the period of the accident (totally unknown to us, and unfortunate for us).
So, the owner of the other vehicle (not the driver) wants us to pay his $1000 deductible for the accident, which of course we don't have. I'm not sure how to handle this? Are we totally responsible for 100% of the fault here?? Does she get assigned any percentage of the fault due? What about the fact that she was driving with a susupended license and shouldn't have been on the road at all?
Can someone help me with answers to those questions? Thanks!
captainejo[at]hotmail.com
Email edited
We live in Florida. My wife got into an accident last week, and her can was undrivable from the scene. NOBODY was hurt. THe other driver was able to drive the car away from the scene. My wife was entering an intersection, where another driver signaled her to 'go ahead' and she procedeed to turn into the intersection, when another driver hit my wife's car. The officer arriving on the scene gave my wife a failure to yeild ticket. The other driver received a ticket for statute FL322.34(2) DNLS knowingly, which seems to be for driving with a suspended license (for a DUI or something similar).
My wife called me about the accident and it turns out that after calling my insurance company (progressive) we had missed a payment, which coincided with the end of a policy/start of a new one. They never sent a missed payment notice, because one policy(6mo period) expired and there was no missed payment notice to send becuase we had not started our new policy without that 'missed' payment, so we were informed that we were uninsured during the period of the accident (totally unknown to us, and unfortunate for us).
So, the owner of the other vehicle (not the driver) wants us to pay his $1000 deductible for the accident, which of course we don't have. I'm not sure how to handle this? Are we totally responsible for 100% of the fault here?? Does she get assigned any percentage of the fault due? What about the fact that she was driving with a susupended license and shouldn't have been on the road at all?
Can someone help me with answers to those questions? Thanks!
captainejo[at]hotmail.com
Email edited
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:46 pm Post Subject:
The other person having a suspended licenses does not factor into the loss at all. They received a citation to address that issue. Your wife caused damage to their property. The driving status of the other driver is not related to this.
Keep in mind that the other person's $1000 ded is not the only issue here. You will also be asked to pay back the other person's carrier for what _they_ paid as well. If you don't pay the entire amount, the other carrier could ask the carrier to suspend your wife's drivers license.
If you don't have $1000, then there is no real question there... you can't pay it. They other person could file against you in small claims court and you'd probably loose. But it would be up to them to do this as even then, there would just be a judgement against your wife.
I don't full understand what happen in the accident. I can say that it's _possible_ to place some liability against a driver that "waives" you through. It's _extremely_ difficult but it can be done. Florida has something called joint and several. The threshold is 10% (if memory serves me correctly). This means if there are two at-fault parties, if it can be shown that _one_ contributed more then 10% to the accident then that one person can be held liable for 100% of the innocent 3rd parties loss. What I'm saying is if this was a third party that waived your wife through, it would be difficult for your wife to get away from that person's responsibility as I'm betting your wife's liability would be more then 90% (i.e. the 3rd party who waived her though would have 10% or less liability). Confused?
As a note, your carrier would have sent out _several_ notices about the new policy. It's not like they just let the policy expire. There is no good excuse for not making that payment.
I take it that you went out today and obtained a new policy or renewed the old one?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:19 am Post Subject:
In my neck of the woods we refer to this as ''THE WAVE OF DEATH''
where another driver signaled her to 'go ahead' and she procedeed to turn into the intersection, when another driver hit my wife's car.
These accidents happen all the time....My advise, when the other carrier's subrogation unit contacts you (and they will) DO NOT HIDE FROM THEM...Instead tell them you are broke and can we work out a payment plan? They will more than likely do so...Do NOT discuss the deductible payment with this other person....They/he/she CANNOT release you from the claim! No matter what they put in writing they cannot release the carrier's payment... His carrier will come to you for what they paid AND his deductible....make payment arrangements and don't miss any of those payments or suffer the consequences which could be far reaching.....I hate to bring this up, but if anyone in that vehicle is injured you're going to be on that as well.......
Sorry for you all, this is a hard lesson to learn....NEVER EVER be on the road without insurance.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 01:40 am Post Subject:
Do NOT discuss the deductible payment with this other person....They/he/she CANNOT release you from the claim! No matter what they put in writing they cannot release the carrier's payment... His carrier will come to you for what they paid AND his deductible
The problem with not paying the person's deductible is that he can file in small claims court against the OP. While the other person's carrier can _ask_ for their insureds deductible, legally they have no right to demand/collect it. It's asked for as a courtesy to their insured. Any deal/payment plan made with the carrier does not bar the other person from going after the OP directly for the deductible.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 07:25 am Post Subject: Missing the payment
I know there is no good excuse for missing the payment. That went down like this: I thought wife paid, she thought I paid, we're newly wed and are working out our bill paying still. We moved at the beginning of November, paid the November bill. December bill had the 'must pay to renew' notice on it, which we either got late (I still haven't seen it, we have mail forwarding set up) or it got returned to sender or something. Not paying the December bill (1st payment on new policy) they didn't send us a late payment reminder. We went out of town for Xmas (driving) thinking we were fully covered (if we had missed we would have a late payment reminder), we agree driving without insurance is stupid. Policy was paid/renewed the day we had the accident-when we found out we were uninsured. yayy, they still get all our money, they lose $120 for december, we lose who knows what. I don't argue how insurance companies operate.
what is an OP?
So there would be no legal standing in the fact that the other driver had already been told by the state not to drive and had revoked her driving priviliages because she already showed poor judgement operating a vehicle?
Also, the driver that 'waived through' didn't stay. No witnesses stayed or anything at all, so how would we assign any liability to them. Also, is it possible that the other driver involved is a percentage responsible for the accident?
Lastly, who do I not discuss the deductible payment with? I'm unclear on that.
Thank you so much!
captainejo[at]hotmail.com
Email edited
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 07:37 am Post Subject:
what is an OP?
Original PosterSo there would be no legal standing in the fact that the other driver had already been told by the state not to drive and had revoked her driving priviliages because she already showed poor judgement operating a vehicle?
The driver receives a citation for this but that is separate. Your wife still caused property damage which is 100% unrelated to the persons driving status. The person showing poor prior driving skills is also 100% unrelated. One is property damage caused by your wife, the other is the other person not suppose to be driving. Not suppose to be driving does not change the loss the other person incurred due to your wife's negligent operation of a motor vehicle.Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 01:21 pm Post Subject:
Sorry 'OP" now you know that's you! :wink:
Also, the driver that 'waived through' didn't stay. No witnesses stayed or anything at all, so how would we assign any liability to them. Also, is it possible that the other driver involved is a percentage responsible for the accident?
Florida has something called joint and several
Sorry, but I think that Florida abolished/did away with joint/several about two years ago...so that is moot...The Florida House on March 16 and the Senate on March 30 approved legislation removing the last vestiges of joint and several liability from the state's tort system.
Is there joint and several liability for tortfeasors? No. Courts enter judgments against liable parties based on their percentage of fault and not on the basis of joint and several liability. Section 768.81(3), Florida Statutes. However, joint and several liability exists for causes of action that accrued before April 26, 2006.
The driver receives a citation for this but that is separate. Your wife still caused property damage which is 100% unrelated to the persons driving status. The person showing poor prior driving skills is also 100% unrelated. One is property damage caused by your wife, the other is the other person not suppose to be driving. Not suppose to be driving does not change the loss the other person incurred due to your wife's negligent operation of a motor vehicle.
I agree with tcope on this, the only hope (if Flordia has a law in place) re: this part of your situation is, if the suspended driver claims injuries you 'might' get out of that...(if there is a law in place barring them from recovery)...The owner of the vehicle is going to say they had no idea in the world that the person they loaned the vehicle to was suspended...I don't blame you for throwing this out there at all! You can certainly precent the argument, but I sincerely doubt it will get you anywhere...Lastly, who do I not discuss the deductible payment with? I'm unclear on that.
The problem with not paying the person's deductible is that he can file in small claims court against the OP. While the other person's carrier can _ask_ for their insureds deductible, legally they have no right to demand/collect it. It's asked for as a courtesy to their insured. Any deal/payment plan made with the carrier does not bar the other person from going after the OP directly for the deductible.
tcope and I 'kind of' disagree on this point...He is saying (I think) that even if the carrier includes the owners deductible in the total amount subrogated against you that doesn't prohibit the owner from filing a small claims suit against you (for his deductible)...he also says that the insurance company only does that (includes their deductible) as a courtesy and does not have the 'right' to demand or collect it...I disagree, however state statutes and laws differ, Florida may not have a legal right to rep. their insured for his deductible In my state (I was a subrogation specialists when I first started in claims), if the carrier made a penney's payment under a coverage that gave us the right to represent them, including their deductible, they could not in anyway accept any money at all from a private party...(from another carrier yes, if there was a letter of intent to pay the entire claim).......all policys (that I've ever seen) clearly (and firmly) state that the insured agrees to sign all rights of recovery over to the company and in no way prejudice the ins company's subrogation rights. The insurance company will be subrogated to ALL rights of recovery that the person receiving the payment (insured) may have against any other person liable for those damages...I found sketch info regarding this...Flordia did have a case saying that reimbursing a percentage of deductilbes based on comparative negligence did not slap the 'make whole' doc. Also on the Flordia DOI site there are many reviews in which the DOI made companies reimburse more deductible...So whether or not they include the deductible in their recovery demands may be a courtesy if so appears it is commonly done.
If for example you agree to make payments for the entire claim including the guys deductible (which is how I think it will come down).....then the guy files a small claims case for his deductible, I personally don't think you'd have any trouble proving to a judge, ''see here I'm paying on this already!'' and the judge would then likely dismiss the guys case...
The main point I wanted to make to you is this...If this guys says to you, 'here pay my deductible and i'll sign a release saying that you're done' he cannot do that, and it will in no way obsolve you from paying the insurance company back...
If it were me I would work only with the carrier to set up a payment arrangement for the entire claim. That's my opinion.
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 02:37 pm Post Subject:
great discussion going on here, looks like you are getting all kinds of help, good luck with your situation. Hope you get the help you need here.
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