Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:55 am Post subject: I am presently on the receiving end of a claim
I was rear-ended while stopped at a light by a woman chatting on a cell phone as she hit me traveling in excess of 45 mph. Her big Buick had the front end smashed all the way back to the firewall. My foot was on the brake of my car, and when I noticed the skid marks from my tires, I realized her hit was hard enough to leave five-foot long skid marks from my tires.
Progressive has assigned two patronizing ladies to "help" me. They have detailed information from my doctors describing my injuries, and pay logs showing that I lost thousands of dollars in lost earnings.
The first nit-picked my loss of income, and she asked me for "more information".
"What specific information do you need?"
"I don't know, I don't understand how your industry operates, nor how you get paid."
"Well, perhaps Progressive needs to assign a rep who understands my business."
"Are you questioning my intelligence??!!??"
"Hey, you just said you don't have the knowledge or experience to understand how I get paid."
"Well Mr. (Me), you simply have not proven to me that you incurred a loss of income."
"Even if I gave you every document showing how I get paid, you have already said that you won't understand."
"WATCH WHAT YOU SAY Mr. (Me). Think verrrrry carefully before you say anything more."
"Your office can be seen from my office window. I shall grab my pay logs and meet you in your office in ten minutes. You may freely browse the file until you find the specific items you need."
"Mr. (Me) I have already told you that I don't know what documents I need because I don't understand your industry. Stay away from my office. I will not see you if you come over. If you set foot inside our office, I shall have the police arrest you for trespassing."
Is that how a cheerful and helpful adjuster "works hard" to make me whole?
Do I suffer from wrong thinking. _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
Progressive has assigned two patronizing ladies to "help" me.
Well, this might just not turn out to be truly romantic if you step one foot ahead any more...but still I'm eagerly waiting to know the part-2 ie. your version of the other lady's advances _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: Try it out!
Hi...progressive is quite a growing name in the insurance industry...& all carriers have a darker side when it comes to claims. So, too have the right to proceed with the State DOI, in case your claim is not met within a specific time frame. Why don't don't you try filing a complaint with them in the first place ( regarding bad customer care)?
You may just call them at 1-800-776-4737 which I believe is a 24/7 service & report what has happened with you! I also have the email-id of their audit committee chairman: stephen_hardis@progressive.com , where in you might just forward your payment-related complaint in detail. Lets see if it helps!
Please be in touch..Megaeventadjuster _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
hey, you might as well choose to report it anonymously through a toll-free alert line - 1-800-683-3604. Rest assured, that this is a third party vendor for Progressive who'd take an account of complaints & forward it to the higher authority. But yeah, you need to stand on your toes (eg. hold your docs tight), lest your time comes sooner.
Thanks, PpsDriGgle _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
WOW Johnny that's quite a dialogue! whew! First, parts of that are very unprofessional (duh)....What type of industry are you in Johnny and what can you give her to prove this loss of income? Did she request last years w2? Or were you in a different occupation at the time? You say 'pay logs" so I would think if you were off for say a month and have the prior two or three pay logs that should be suffient or prior couple months pay stubs....It's unfortunate that you had this conversation, the hot line to report to progressive this conversation is a good idea, and I'll tell you they don't take these calls lightly! Then it's time to move on and get your claim handled...I you don't feel you can work with this adjuster any longer, contact her supervisor and tell them that....they should immediately reassign your claim...Please do let us know the outcome of this one! Also if you'd like explain your job, how you get paid, and we should be able to help you figure out what type of proof is needed... _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
I read the post and if the conversation went as you have posted I see a breakdown in communication from the start:
Quote:
"I don't know, I don't understand how your industry operates, nor how you get paid."
"Well, perhaps Progressive needs to assign a rep who understands my business."
Let me ask you a question... do you understand how state laws apply to property damage and bodily injury claims? How about case law in your state? More on subject, do you understand exactly how all lines of professions are paid (taxi cab drivers, long haul truck drivers, all forms of independent contractors, etc)? If not, why do you expect adjusters to know everything? I've been handling claims for a very long time and know the job very well but I'd be the 1st person to admit that there are many things I don't know.
Quote:
"Are you questioning my intelligence??!!??"
"Hey, you just said you don't have the knowledge or experience to understand how I get paid."
Now she did not say that did she. If this is really how the conversation went, did you really think your response was going to help the situation or was it simply nothing more then an insulting remark?
Quote:
"Well Mr. (Me), you simply have not proven to me that you incurred a loss of income."
"Even if I gave you every document showing how I get paid, you have already said that you won't understand."
That is not what she said, that is obvious. But again, it seems to me instead of acknowledging that there was a problem and working with the adjuster to solve it, you choose to remark about her "lack of intelligence".
Adjusters deal with people who don't agree with the way that a claim is being handled. It happens all the time. In some cases people don't agree in an adverse situation. If the person becomes defensive/verbally aggressive and offers to meet me in my office, I'd decline as well. In today's climate I might even request that they not attempt to come into the office and let them know the police would be called (I've done that in the past). A couple of years ago when I was in Florida an adjuster there went out to inspect some storm damage to a person's home and was killed by that person. Over some damage to the person's home! I worked with someone who denied a person's claim and that person got her home number and called her there at 10pm. Were those reactions appropriate even if the adjusters were wrong?
Am I saying that the Progressive person was professional and did the best they could have? Nope... though from your post I saw nothing insulting being said from them... just to them. You may not like that they don't understand the way that you are paid but 1) insulting the person accomplishes nothing more then shutting them down even more and 2) you still need to deal with this same person anyway.
Do I work for Progressive, no. Do I think they hire inexperienced people, yes. Do I think this person did everything perfectly, probably not. But here is the rock bottom reality part I mention to people... at the end of the day, be it right or be it wrong, the adjuster is holding the check book. Why do people think it's a good idea to insult them? I know it sounds like I'm saying people should bow down, I'm _not saying that at all_ (I'm going to ask that everyone go back and re-read that last statement as typically I'll see people just ignore it). I'm saying, even if the adjuster is bone head... work with the person and be professional about it. I'd expect that in any business environment.
I'll give an example of what I mean...
Quote:
"What specific information do you need?"
"I don't know, I don't understand how your industry operates, nor how you get paid."
"I'd not have a problem supplying you any information you may need but can you see how I can't do that unless you tell me what you might be looking for? Is there anything you'd like to talk about that may help you understand my industry? What exactly are you confused about? Is there anyone in your office that may have handled a claim involving someone in my industry that may be able to explain my situation to you?"
You could have even added, "It seems like we have a lack of communication here on how to resolve this issue, what do you suggest?"
I'm _betting_ if this type of responses were given that portion of the conversation would have gone _much_ better. You don't have to like this adjuster, you can even be sure that she is an idiot... but when I mean acting professional I mean know that the person is an idiot and take the high road.
Let me also mention that I find many people are made at adjusters because "their insured" was the idiot who was on their cell phone and rammed into my car at 45mph which caused an injury and extreme pain. While this is all true... keep in mind that the adjuster has no control over what other people do. In otherwords, the adjuster did not allow the person to act as they did... they have _absolutely no control over that_. But some people take out that frustration on the adjuster. I think that is to be expected and I certainly understand it. But adjusters have bad days and _we_ make mistakes every day (I'm sure I made 2 or 3 today). But when it's simply a breakdown in communication because two people can't talk something through....?
Terrific post tcope! I have to admit I misread some of the OP's post and transferred his words to hers!
I agree with you totally, when an insured or claimant become overly aggressive, and demanding/demeaning, (sorry OP sounds like maybe you came into this conversation with a bit of a chip on your shoulder)...it's time for the adjuster to stop, take a breath, and (yes) even protect themselves...as tcope I have been at this more than twenty years, and there is rarely a week when someone isn't mad at me before I even talk to them...Last summer had a guy actually threaten to beat me up, amoung other things..(yep I went to the cops)...reported him to my company who takes these things very seriously they even offered to send me a body guard, and yes, by the way, this guy was non-renewed...(also as a side note I looked him up on 'case net' and he has had five restraining orders, and eight assualt charges)...There are nuts in this world, and a person never knows which one is the nut many times until it's too late...I have also had angry people, say, ''Where are you I'm coming right now" and like the adjuster in this situation, I tell them come if you must, but the cops will be here too...
Let me assure you that this adjuster wants more than anything to pay and close your claim....She however cannot just pay your loss of wage without properly understanding it and having the 'proof' she needs to justify that payment....
Work with her rather than against her, to get the information she needs so you both can bring this claim to a mutally satisfying resolution....might not hurt to apologize if you came off aggressive to her whether you indeed to or not, (clearly she thought so)... Surely you wouldn't want anyone (a woman in particular) to feel intimidated by you in any way right? _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Let me just add that I (perhaps Lori as well) am not saying that the Progressive adjuster handled the call perfectly. I'm betting she probably could have handled her end better. Is she were here posting I'd probably offer the same advice. But _someone_ needs to change gears. It does not really matter who was right and who was wrong... I mentioned the above to point out the "other" person's perspective. As mentioned, if the adjuster had posted I'd point out that not everyone understands that adjusters deal with so many different situations and no claims are the same. That many people are defensive and rightfully so... they have just under went a lot of stress and it's "well known" that all insurance companies are evil.
But again, someone needs change the direction of the conversation... and Johnny... she is holding the checkbook. I'm not saying she's in control (?), I'm saying you may even get _more_ money by patting her on the head and saying, "nice girl".
Bottom line, this really just seems like two people not wanting to talk like adults. It does not matter who's fault it is, who started it, etc. It should be an easy thing to fix.
Let me just add that I (perhaps Lori as well) am not saying that the Progressive adjuster handled the call perfectly. I'm betting she probably could have handled her end better.
ABSOLUTELY, tcope....
my daddy would call this a pi**in' match...and no one ever wins one of those....All thru my posts (and tcope's too) you will find references to being nice to the adjuster, as I've said tons of times...we get yelled at or people mad before we even talk to them...many times people are flat out unreasonable....so when a nice one comes along, (being human and all, believe it or not)...we tend to work a little harder....really is 'sales' 101...
Quote:
Bottom line, this really just seems like two people not wanting to talk like adults. It does not matter who's fault it is, who started it, etc. It should be an easy thing to fix.
I've had some of the best, (for all parties) results when someone goes off on me then calls me back with character and says, 'you know what I shouldnt have talked to you that way I was just frustrated'...then we put it behind us and move on to the resolution....good luck Johnny and hope you will let us know what happens.. _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:00 am Post subject: I have nothing substantial to add to fuel the fire here.
I just find it difficult to believe anyone would have this kind of situation develope with this company.
Maybe insurers aren't spending enough on advertising showing their emphathy for those who need their services in trying times. Maybe this company needs a slogan like "we're on your side" or we're your good hands people" or "like a good neighbor"
_________________ If you can't find the time to do it right, how will you ever find the time to do it over.
Some of the most difficult loss of income claims are with people that have sales or commision type jobs. Sure you can get their W-2 for the prior year or their pay amounts from months previous, but there is never a clear cut way to figure what they are owed. What if they were out of work in June and the past 3 Junes there were no commisions. What if they were up for a big contract with 3 other companies and then got hurt.... did they lose the contract because they couldn't do the job and had to pull their bid or because someone else just beat them out. There just seems like no way to document the loss and the adjuster seem to get caught in the middle with their company wanting black and white documentation and the claimant wanting more money.
The OP did not state how they got paid, but I would assume that it is something similar. maybe not
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: Gee, they say this company use to be fun to work for.
Quote taken from article written in Cleveland News Paper by Lisa Rab on March 12.
Maybe sportcoat guys adjusters are just on edge about their future with this company.
Quote:
He's still the chairman of Progressive's board, but when he departed, he made Glenn Renwick his handpicked CEO. Some employees say nothing has been the same since.
"Until the reorganization was announced, I could've written a commercial for how much I loved Progressive," says one veteran manager.
"Everybody wanted to be there," adds another longtime employee. "Now it's quite the opposite."
When contacted by Scene, most employees were afraid to speak publicly about the company. Some fear they'll be fired. The laid-off still have friends and family on the job. And Progressive, they say, is no longer a place where people are encouraged to speak openly.
In the years after Lewis left, new layers of management appeared. Analysts and MBAs were hired to examine processes and procedures, rather than bring money in the door. "Things quit getting done," one former manager recalls.
_________________ If you can't find the time to do it right, how will you ever find the time to do it over.
Dasfuk, I agree I've had claims that I had a devil of a time proving to the file the amount I wanted to pay...as you said w2's aren't always the way...if they were off in June, and made the bulk of their yearly income in june last year....but I've always been able to find a way to get the proof...it just takes extra work some times...
Mike how about 'contributing' to the thread and attempting to assist or bring another point of view in for the OP, you missed a prime opportunity to actually contribute, as it would be very difficult to document your loss of income as well, (say you or your shop couldn't work for two weeks)....and perhaps you could've actually helped by explaining how you would go about proving this...but no just more bashing...and how is that possibly helping anyone especially the OP? IN SOME WAY!!!!!!!!!! We get it Mike you HATE progressive...ok...got it...... geeeeeeeeeeeze _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
And pulling a quote from Scene Mag. From what I remember from my 10 years in Cleveland, that thing is a free rag. The only good information it ever had was what entertainment was coming to town.
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: And that makes it not true?
Ouch, that hurt!
I can't help you on the personal injury stuff or helping you calculate loss of income. I don't know if he is entitled to the potential income he would have made on the current employment situation or based on two previous years W-2's.
I don't know if johnny sportcoat was working at jack in the box two months ago for minimum wage or if he is currently employed as a stunt cave man actor for geico making 2500 a week. I would venture to say that he is owed his current potential loss of income but then I am not an attorney.
He sounded like he was presenting two problems. He was obviously irate because he thought his experience with the insurer he was dealing with would go much like the tv commercials and it did not. It sounds like the person or persons who were trained as expert negotiators resorted to taking the low road along with him.
His other problem sounded like the one you guys are probably best equiped to offer advice.
If I had been in the same situation, I wouldn't even talk to the other insurer or give them a statement as I have no contractual obligation to do so. If I wanted to use their funds to repair my vehicle I might have been a little more tactful and sought helpful information before I ever spoke to the at fault party. The only time I would have spoke to the at fault insurer would have been to give them my mailing address, fax, or email. After that it would all be in writing. I would have also asked that all communication be handled in writing so that there would be no misunderstandings as to what was being offered as settlement.
I would have dealt with my own insurer who has a contractual obligation to restore my vehicle to preloss condition or as my statutes mandate, they would have to pay an amount that would have caused my vehicle to be returned to the condition it was prior to the loss. If they did not comply with my policy or statutes, then I would have grounds for a bad faith claim. I simply have more choices with my own carrier and I won't be penalized for using my coverage for an accident that wasn't due to my negligence.
As far as my personal injuries or loss of income, I carry 50,000 dollars in med pay. My attorney has informed me that he carries 200,000 in med pay so that if he can not work, he can pay his staff and cover medical treatments so as to not use his health and accident coverage who might place a lein on a personal injury settlement subrogated against the other insurer. Med pay means different things in different states. In mine I can use all 50,000 dollars for my medical needs, before I would be forced to sue the other party or attempt to negotiate. And the insurer can not subrogate the med pay from the at fault party in my state. If I collect 50,000 in personal injury from the at fault party, I am also not required to pay my own insurer any funds back for the med pay coverage used.
This information is the type that is not afforded to policy holders because agents and insurers would prefer you use the other companies funds and not theirs, and they would not have to spend funds litigating or subrogating for any losses paid to the insured vehicle owner. _________________ If you can't find the time to do it right, how will you ever find the time to do it over.
