by Guest » Thu May 15, 2008 08:16 pm
Quick summary, I'm stopped at a red light getting ready to go. An old lady slams into the back of my car even before I get a chance to get my foot off the break. It's the middle of the night, and she didn't even have on her lights. It's me and my daughter in the car, and I am pregnant. I go to the hospital, not in an ambulance, my husband drove me in his own car. Which I guess was a mistake.
We get to the hospital and go to triage. They can't find the baby's heart beat. They sit us for waiting room for 2 hours while we think our unborn child is dead. They finally bring us in and check for the heart beat and find it. They do some test, but do not do an ultra sound. And I never actually see a doctor just a Nurse Practitioner, which turns out is another mistake.
After the hospital I go to the orthopedic. He can't do anything because I'm pregnant. He gives me a neck brace recommend a chiropractor, which is another mistake or so I hear. I loose my job because I am part time 25 hours a week, and they only give you a week to be out for injury. I get appropriate documents from the chiropractor saying I can't work. I get fired anyway.
The damage to the car was $4,000, the frame was bent because she hit me so hard.
Now I calculated medical bills, lost work wages up to a month before I gave birth, because I would have been taking leave anyway for pregnancy, and 3 times medical bills for pain and suffering. I came up with a reasonable amount of $15,500. Not including the car repairs they paid that already, and gave me $700 for depreciation.
The insurance adjustor's first offer was a spit in my face of $4,000, which didn't even cover lost work. I laughed and hung up and called back a couple days. He offered me 8k which is still not satisfactory for me. I am willing to settle for $12,500, but he won't budge.
I contacted several lawyers and an insurance adjuster that is my friend. I submitted paper work to all of them and their estimates are 20-30k, but I call other lawyers I call say settle for the 8k. I don't want to sign up with a lawyer; I just want what is due to me. I don't want to price gouge them, I explained that to the adjustor, but he basically blows it off like of just go ahead and call a lawyer I don't care. I would call a lawyer and I still probably will have to hire one, but I just don't want to wait, I need the money as soon as possible to pay late bills due to the accident.
Why doesn't this adjuster just realize that if he settles with a reasonable amount with me, he could save his company money, instead of pushing me to a lawyer?
I actually called up a local lawyer and mentioned the name of the adjuster that is dealing with my case, and he knew the adjuster by name, and based on that refused to take my case because he knew he was a hard ass. So that leads to another question, can I get my adjuster changed? I also talked to the adjuster's supervisor as one last attempt to reason with them and no luck.
Does anyone know any good lawyers in Greensboro, NC? What about those commercials for like Lewis and Daggit? Please Help
We get to the hospital and go to triage. They can't find the baby's heart beat. They sit us for waiting room for 2 hours while we think our unborn child is dead. They finally bring us in and check for the heart beat and find it. They do some test, but do not do an ultra sound. And I never actually see a doctor just a Nurse Practitioner, which turns out is another mistake.
After the hospital I go to the orthopedic. He can't do anything because I'm pregnant. He gives me a neck brace recommend a chiropractor, which is another mistake or so I hear. I loose my job because I am part time 25 hours a week, and they only give you a week to be out for injury. I get appropriate documents from the chiropractor saying I can't work. I get fired anyway.
The damage to the car was $4,000, the frame was bent because she hit me so hard.
Now I calculated medical bills, lost work wages up to a month before I gave birth, because I would have been taking leave anyway for pregnancy, and 3 times medical bills for pain and suffering. I came up with a reasonable amount of $15,500. Not including the car repairs they paid that already, and gave me $700 for depreciation.
The insurance adjustor's first offer was a spit in my face of $4,000, which didn't even cover lost work. I laughed and hung up and called back a couple days. He offered me 8k which is still not satisfactory for me. I am willing to settle for $12,500, but he won't budge.
I contacted several lawyers and an insurance adjuster that is my friend. I submitted paper work to all of them and their estimates are 20-30k, but I call other lawyers I call say settle for the 8k. I don't want to sign up with a lawyer; I just want what is due to me. I don't want to price gouge them, I explained that to the adjustor, but he basically blows it off like of just go ahead and call a lawyer I don't care. I would call a lawyer and I still probably will have to hire one, but I just don't want to wait, I need the money as soon as possible to pay late bills due to the accident.
Why doesn't this adjuster just realize that if he settles with a reasonable amount with me, he could save his company money, instead of pushing me to a lawyer?
I actually called up a local lawyer and mentioned the name of the adjuster that is dealing with my case, and he knew the adjuster by name, and based on that refused to take my case because he knew he was a hard ass. So that leads to another question, can I get my adjuster changed? I also talked to the adjuster's supervisor as one last attempt to reason with them and no luck.
Does anyone know any good lawyers in Greensboro, NC? What about those commercials for like Lewis and Daggit? Please Help
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:45 pm Post Subject:
Joec, let me at say that I understand how frustrating this is for you and I'm sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Let me also say that I love this post as there is just so much to it... I think I could write a book on everything I could say. Of course it would read like Dr. Seuss, so I don't think anyone would read it.
Injury to a pregnant person is difficult to address. It's understandable that the person needs to go to the ER and have their condition (baby) checked. It appears that (finally) nothing was found wrong with the baby. If I wanted to go into more depth, most attorneys would want to wait until the baby is born to be sure...IMHO not because they really want to be sure but because it can only mean more money to collect for them (that is, it's highly unlikely that an injury would exist but if _anything_ was found, the attorney could blame it on the accident and let the chips fall where they might).
What you failed to mention is why you were out of work longer then a week. I take $15k and divide by 3 to get $5000 in medical bills and loss wages. I'm going to guess that your medical bills might have been around $2000-$2500 and that the ER bill was about $1000 of this. This, along with the adjusters low offer indicates to me that almost all of the medical expenses were for diagnostic work and not actual treatment. If so, this is why I'm asking why you were out of work so long (what you physical injury was as indicated by the doctors).
In addition to what I mentioned above is the problem with your treatment due to your pregnancy. I understand that doctors are reluctant to give you medications but usually medications are only to relieve pain, not to heal injuries. But I still understand that your being pregnant probably did limit certain treatment or at least doctors willingness to offer certain treatment (MRI's, x-rays, etc). The adjuster may not realize this or may be ignoring it as a factor.
You took your medical bills and multiplied them by 3. Many people have heard this determination as a way to estimate what you should be paid on an injury. It just does not fly. One person has a punctured lung and is a professional baseball player and another person has a sore arm (soft tissue injury) and works at the local 7-11. Should each person's loss use the same multiplier on medical bills be used to determine how much the person has lost? Of course not... each person's situation and injury is unique and should be looked at individually. In your case it _seems_ like most of your treatment was diagnostic and as such, very limited treatment was rendered. So I'd not think multiplying the medical bills by 3 is appropriate in your case. But I also mentioned above about your limited treatment possibly being influenced by your condition and doctors views on your condition. That should also be considered.
The adjusters initial offer was to cover your medical bills and loss wages. Yes, everyone including the adjuster, knows this is too little. Different adjusters have different views on how to _start- negotiations. Would some people be willing to settle for that amount? Possibly... but highly unlikely. Also, it's a negotiation... so should the adjuster start by offering top dollar? That kind of puts him in the corner and makes it look like he's not willing to discuss the situation as he can't move off that initial offer. So he opts to start at the bottom. I don't do this but it's understandable (I certainly do it with an attorney, though). Your emotionally attached to the negotiation so your offended (which is why I don't do it this way with the injured person, only attorneys) and you hang up. I can understand that... but understand that you should try to step back a little and look at this as a 3rd party. It's difficult, I know.
He then up'ed his offer to $8k. I think this is more in the correct range. You lower your demand to $12,500 from $15,500. Good counter. But he tells you he's not willing to go above $8k. So your about $4k off settling.
So do I think the adjuster would split the difference and agree to settle for $10k? Perhaps... but it really depends on what you actual injury was. _THAT_ is what the adjuster is looking at. All those medical bills for diagnostic work... the adjuster is willing to pay for top notch diagnostic work done to make sure everything done correctly. Should he pay 3x those diagnostic bills? Why should he... they are not indicative of an actual injury (they were necessitated as a result of a complaint of injury... but are certainly not an indicator of "pain and suffering").
Attorney... some people have told you settlement should be $20k. I'm betting these people might not have considered the possible limited medical treatment you received. I think the attorney who told you $8k did consider this (though I think their amounts were too low). If you hire an attorney it might be one that would be willing to settle for $8k. Even if they increased it to $12k, they take 1/3 of $12k and leave you with... yup, $8k.
Adjuster... I know adjusters like this. Many of them are _very_ good at their jobs but at the cost of removing the human element from the claim process. That is, they don't let much empathy enter into the handling of the claim and only see the dollar signs. I understand where these people are coming from... they need to deal with terrible situations every day and only have money to help.... and they need to pay as little as possible to settle the claim. I think great adjusters can do both... adjusters who walk on water can do both almost all the time. I think this adjuster just looks at the dollar amount... not much else. If he can settle the claim for even a little less then is expected, he's done a good job. I'm not saying that he's wrong, though.
It difficult to give a good answer without knowing more about what your actual injury was and why you could not work for several weeks. I will say that time is on your side... if you can afford to hold out. Adjusters need to close claims. If they don't, they just keep adding up and handling claims is a little like juggling... the more balls in the air, the more difficult the job becomes (I should copyright that!). You can also make several arguments to see about getting him to increase his offer. Your treatment was limited because the doctors did not want to do much because you were pregnant. The adjuster will argue that he understands, but without more treatment its difficult to show the injuries were severe (he's not wrong about this). You can also let him know you feel his offer is too low and as such you feel that an attorney might be better at negotiating with him (he will say, fine... have him/her call me). You can let the adjuster know that you think an attorney could get more but then the attorney would take 1/3 and leave you with the same amount but this would simply cost the carrier more and not get you any more money (he should agree with this). You can also let the adjuster know that you might want to wait until the baby is born to see if there are any problems. The adjuster will point out that this is unlikely and that you'd have to show that any problems were related to the accident. While this is true... would he be more willing to settle the claim now for a higher amount or leave the claim open and roll the dice once the child is born? Along with this, you may want to let the adjuster know that you're willing to settle now for $xxxx (and perhaps lower your demand). In any case, you want to offer information to the adjuster that convinces him that you are willing to be "reasonable" in your demands, that your willing to negotiate (after all, it's a two way street), that you are offering additional information for him to consider (gets him to move off his last offer) and that a settlement now would be best for you both.
When attorneys call me to negotiate 99.999999999% of the time they are my best friend! At least they act that way! They know that even though their client is entitled to compensation, I still have the money and they want that money. If they hank my chain I may end up paying even more in the long run but I'll be sure to make they work _very_ hard for that money. They know it's much easier to handle it as two professionals then to be enemies. They might kiss my butt a little while we negotiate but they can laugh all the way to the bank afterward.
In closing I'd like to say.... this really _did_ turn out to be a little book! :) Hope is was not too boring.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:31 am Post Subject: accident
I'm so sorry to read what happened! Is the baby ok? Are you (physical) OK? When I had a 'mishap' ( not as bad as yours, however) when I was pregnant, the ER couldn't give me any medication, either. Even though I'm not an expert in the 'accident' field, I just want to say our prayers are with you and the baby. :D
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 12:49 am Post Subject: Adjuster
Hello, thanks for the info. My daughter Mariah was born. The accident was back in August 07. It seemed like she was born fine, until 9 hours after delivery. She had to be put into the NICU because her oxygen levels dropped so low. They said she had fluid in her lungs, but they had no Idea why. They said it couldn't be from the delivery or there would have been signs right away. They said it was also too quick for an infection. We still have no answer. And to top it off the Pediatrician says she has a minor heart murmur. I am getting in contact with doctors, but my question to them will be why didn't they see the heart murmur in the hospital? They had her on monitors for a week and said nothing about it. It's no in the paper work or anything. The hospital was very shady from the begging. They took her to 'weigh' her in, didn't tell us anything about what was going on, we went down there 2 hours later to see what was taking so long, and she was being brought up to the NICU and they were like 'oh yeah her oxygen levels are low.'
Anyway I was fired from work because I only work 28 hours a week and part-timers at the company are not allotted more than a week of being out. The doctor wrote me out indefinitely, I even tried to go back to work but could not stand the neck pain. I applied to other places before I gave birth, but I got several ‘thank you we'll call you.' And one lady at an employment agency came right out and laughed when I came in to apply. To be honest I don't think I could have worked anyway with the pain. I couldn't even get any sleep between the neck pain and pregnancy. And in my opinion it took much longer than it normally would have if I wasn't pregnant. I cut my finder before the accident with knife. It didn't heal the whole pregnancy. After I gave birth in 5 days it was gone. It takes longer to heal up when you were pregnant. The official injuries I think were just torn ligaments in my neck. I had to wear that humiliating brace for weeks; I couldn't pick up my two year old daughter for months. I had to hire help to help me take care of her, when my husband was at work.
The adjuster is trying to not pay all the medical bills because in December, I had a glucose test with my OBGYN and had to cancel on the chiropractor and the next week I didn't not have an appointment because I was visiting family out of state. So he's saying that's when you treatment stopped even though it went on until the baby was born. He's doing the same thing with the work, stopping it December 5th.
Medical and work I'm out over 9k. I just feel like the lady who hit me was so negligent. Driving at night, with no lights on, slamming into a stopped car. She was old and feeble and probably didn't even belong driving. Now we're in debt and the insurance company won't even pay up what they owe.
I talked to his supervisor today and he's pretty much the same way. Like you said they have no human factor. They just don't care. If my husband gets the new job, I'm going to hold out and sue.
I'll post the demand letter also.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:01 am Post Subject:
Great response tcope!
I had to hire help to help me take care of her, when my husband was at work.
Does the adjuster know this? Have you submitted this? This is ''actual'' damages, and you are owed reimbursement for that..I just feel like the lady who hit me was so negligent. Driving at night, with no lights on, slamming into a stopped car. She was old and feeble and probably didn't even belong driving
There's no dispute regarding liability here, so I'd not worry too much about trying to push this point....The dispute is purely on the amount or value of your injury...They have accepted full liability correct?If my husband gets the new job, I'm going to hold out and sue.
If the adjuster has ALL the information and is unwilling to move at all off his offer, I think it might be a good idea to 'interview'' a couple of attorneys, these inital consultation are generally free...Re: your daughter, so sorry she had trouble, but these issues in no way are related to the accident correct?
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 01:35 pm Post Subject: Adjuster
He knows about the money I shelled out for help. I included it in my paper work and my demand letter. And I brought it up to him. I don't know if the complications with my daughter are related to the accident, because the doctors don't know what caused everything. But basically that means I'm out on that.
We are seeing a couple of lawyers today, but as far as I'm conserned lawyers are just as dirty as this adjuster. But we'll see what they say. Thanks for the advice.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 04:55 pm Post Subject: Update
We signed on with a lawyer today. He said 8k is a mid level offer, but we could probably get more. He a law suit was not a viable option. But he is going to nigioate for us, and try to squeeze some more out of the insurance company. The good thing is, he's going to take only 50% of new money over 8k, which isn't too bad, most lawyers want 30% and also have a contigency fee. I'll update with the final settlement amount.
Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 08:26 pm Post Subject:
But basically that means I'm out on that.
Well in truth chances that the accident had anything to do with it are slim I'm sure you'd agree with that...The good thing is, he's going to take only 50% of new money over 8k, which isn't too bad, most lawyers want 30% and also have a contigency fee. I'll update with the final settlement amount.
You my dear have found an attorney with some terrific ethics if you ask me!!! Great to hear.....seriously I don't know that I can say I know one attorney that would've done that!Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:59 pm Post Subject:
I think that is a good deal from the attorney (though, I really think it should be 33% of the new money).
I don't know many of the details to the claim but I could see the settlement easily being close to $12,000. That still nets you $10k... but I also think you could get this on your own with little trouble. Still, having an attorney handle this matter for you will make life a little easier.
Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:46 am Post Subject:
Joec, I hope everything works out for you and your family. My prayers are with you and your daughter. I hope your atty does well by you. Good luck.
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 03:39 pm Post Subject: Still did not settle
The lawyer still didn't settle yet. The guy from state farm is on vacation for a week, what a joke. He should be back in this monday, which is a holiday. So the lawyer won't be talking to him until at least tuesday.
"but I also think you could get this on your own with little trouble."
This adjuster is a piece of work. Several lawyers know him by name. The lawyer we are dealing with now says because everyone remembers the bad ones. He's been at state farm for 10-15 years. He shrewed person when it comes to his job. I understand that's his job to save his company money.
I'll update with amount when we settle.
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