by Guest » Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:14 pm
Hi there, I've had a great couple of hours reading back through the archives at all of the stories and advice - seems like you guys are very helpful.
Last week my wife and 5 month old were stopped at a red light in Oregon and got rear-ended by a Pontiac Grand Prix. The impact pushed her (1st impact) into a minivan, and that into a Grand Cherokee.
Mitigating factors were time of day (the sun is directly in view in the evening there) and so the driver at fault was not cited but is still being held liable. Her insurance company (Allied/Nationwide) has talked to enough people (everyone but the occupants of the Jeep who got an attorney) to accept liability for the accident. My wife and son have both gone to the doctor's and been checked out, and both seem to be doing alright - my wife had a bump on her head and still has some neck soreness and the baby appears to be fine. My wife has also had a few headaches this last weekend, which may or may not be related.
Our car however is probably totaled - it's a 2000 Ford Contour with 102,000 miles. The impact completely took off the rear bumper, both rear quarter panels and damaged the frame in the back where the bumper attaches. There is also minor damage to the front bumper. The cost of the damage and total value of the car are still being assessed, but my insurance adjuster (USAA) said I should be looking around for new cars.
Hopefully that's enough background, on to the questions! First off - the Allied agent was here today and had a settlement offer for my wife and son. Allied has already agreed to pay (separate from any settlement) to replace the three car seats that were in the car, our medical deductible that USAA will want from us, and are providing a rental vehicle for the duration. Now for the settlement they are offering $250 for my son's pain and suffering and $350 for my wife's, with an additional medical allowance of any reasonable care, up to $3000 for the next month (for wife only). We don't really think that anything is seriously wrong with them, but are there any additional medical problems that could crop up down the road that we should be thinking of before signing? We don't want to be greedy car victims, but we don't want to be stuck with unpaid medical bills later on either. We have a month to accept this offer, after which she says they'll need additional proof of things (she called this an early settlement). So far I've been happy working with the insurance agent, but I also realize that her job is to save the company as much money as possible.
Next question: how can I find out how much my car is worth, and how do I factor in things like snow tires and recent repairs? The tires that are on it now are literally brand new - I bought them the Saturday before the accident (which was Wednesday). It also has an upgraded radio, new speakers, and recent engine work.
I'm worried that I'll be given their appraisal of my car's value and an offer to replace it and be forced to buy something in a hurry or start paying for the car rental myself out of pocket. It seems like there should be some way to claim "pain and suffering" for the inconvenience of having to buy a car when it wasn't your fault that you need another one...
Oh well, thanks in advance for the help, and let me know if you need any additional information.
-Brian
Last week my wife and 5 month old were stopped at a red light in Oregon and got rear-ended by a Pontiac Grand Prix. The impact pushed her (1st impact) into a minivan, and that into a Grand Cherokee.
Mitigating factors were time of day (the sun is directly in view in the evening there) and so the driver at fault was not cited but is still being held liable. Her insurance company (Allied/Nationwide) has talked to enough people (everyone but the occupants of the Jeep who got an attorney) to accept liability for the accident. My wife and son have both gone to the doctor's and been checked out, and both seem to be doing alright - my wife had a bump on her head and still has some neck soreness and the baby appears to be fine. My wife has also had a few headaches this last weekend, which may or may not be related.
Our car however is probably totaled - it's a 2000 Ford Contour with 102,000 miles. The impact completely took off the rear bumper, both rear quarter panels and damaged the frame in the back where the bumper attaches. There is also minor damage to the front bumper. The cost of the damage and total value of the car are still being assessed, but my insurance adjuster (USAA) said I should be looking around for new cars.
Hopefully that's enough background, on to the questions! First off - the Allied agent was here today and had a settlement offer for my wife and son. Allied has already agreed to pay (separate from any settlement) to replace the three car seats that were in the car, our medical deductible that USAA will want from us, and are providing a rental vehicle for the duration. Now for the settlement they are offering $250 for my son's pain and suffering and $350 for my wife's, with an additional medical allowance of any reasonable care, up to $3000 for the next month (for wife only). We don't really think that anything is seriously wrong with them, but are there any additional medical problems that could crop up down the road that we should be thinking of before signing? We don't want to be greedy car victims, but we don't want to be stuck with unpaid medical bills later on either. We have a month to accept this offer, after which she says they'll need additional proof of things (she called this an early settlement). So far I've been happy working with the insurance agent, but I also realize that her job is to save the company as much money as possible.
Next question: how can I find out how much my car is worth, and how do I factor in things like snow tires and recent repairs? The tires that are on it now are literally brand new - I bought them the Saturday before the accident (which was Wednesday). It also has an upgraded radio, new speakers, and recent engine work.
I'm worried that I'll be given their appraisal of my car's value and an offer to replace it and be forced to buy something in a hurry or start paying for the car rental myself out of pocket. It seems like there should be some way to claim "pain and suffering" for the inconvenience of having to buy a car when it wasn't your fault that you need another one...
Oh well, thanks in advance for the help, and let me know if you need any additional information.
-Brian
Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:09 pm Post Subject:
I have to say that it sounds like textbook work for Allied!
An early settlement is something the insurance company will (should) try to get. It's usually done when it looks like the injuries don't appear to be significant or lasting. How do you know she won't need treatment later on? You don't. Its an equal roll of the dice for you and the carrier to accept/offer this settlement. The carrier is "pressuring" you to settle for what good be a decent amount, considering your wife probably did not have any actual injury from the accident (yes, she was sore and this is technically an injury). If indeed there is really nothing wrong with your wife, it's a great and fair offer (really just money in your pocket). But it also gets Allied a release meaning they won't have to pay anything more then $3k over the next month. This means if anything goes wrong later on, they don't need to address it. It's a perfectly appropriate _offer_ to make. No one says you have to accept. You can wait until the Statute of Limitation is just about up in your state before you accept any offer. But at least Allied is doing something to move the claim along. As they also mentioned, the offer is being put out there lacking any kind of medical information. Should your wife have ongoing treatment they will simply ask for medical records to review which can take a few months to get. They will commit some money to settle the case but if it's a substantial amount, they want to confirm the treatment is related to the accident.
As far as the value of the vehicle... you can check NADA to get an _idea_ of what it's worth. I once Allied tells you the value I always recommend getting a copy of the evaluation to review it and make sure it's accurate (miles, options, etc). The tires should add value to the vehicle. Unfortunately not what you _just_ paid. You bought new tires. They are now used. The radio and speakers should be considered but probably won't add but $50 or $100 to the value of the vehicle (everything is worth more if sold/bought independently but not when it's a part of a vehicle). The engine work probably should not increase the value. My guess is that it was done to keep the vehicle in good working order, which is what Allied is already considering... a vehicle in good working order. If you did not have repairs done to the engine, the vehicle would be worth less. So engine work usually _maintains_ the value.
Your right... the rental will be stopped by Allied just a few days after they make the offer. It sucks, I know.
Pain and suffering for all the aggravation of being in an accident? I could not agree more! I agree 100%! It's a HUGE pain and one that no one should have to go through. Now that I've said that... legally it's not owed. :) The only way I can explain it is that it's the price we pay for living so close to other people. Stuff happens. Legally the reason is that you have a duty to prove your loss and you cannot charge for this. So you are charged with much responsiblity but really the insurance company is going to work on settling the claim also. They owe money... not a replacement vehicle. So once the "money" is paid, the claim is settled. So they don't have to consider the hardship of you buying a new vehicle. I agree, it kind of sucks. How about this... you take the money that Allied will pay, put a little money on top of it and get a better vehicle. Then your time won't be a total loss (no pun). Like I said in a prior post... I'm all about the "glass half full" thing. :)
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 02:04 am Post Subject: insurance
I'm very happy to hear you baby and wife are ok. REALLY??............how can you put a price on injuries?.I mean, how can the OTHER insurance company do this? Does he see the INTERNAL injuries, or...the 'injuries that may come along the way? NOPE!! He can't. I agree with the post above...the other insurance company is just trying to 'settle' things right now.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 03:44 am Post Subject:
I don't know if I was completely clear.... I think Allied is handling this perfectly. Whenever possible an adjuster needs to make an early initial offer. Again, it's not always appropriate ad should really only be done when the person's injuries appear to be minor and contained. The person knows if they are hurt or not. The adjuster cannot be sure. Many times though the person is not hurt very badly and does not need any treatment. It's not good when the adjuster just ignores this and acts like something is not owed. In these cases the adjuster could do just that... sit back and see if the person initiates an injury claim. It's better for the insurance company to be proactive and make that initial offer. If the person does not want to accept, they don't have to but it does send the message that the insurance companies understands that an injury, of some type, happened and they are not ignoring it.
The flip side is if the person accepted, it pretty much ends the injury claim. So don't get me wrong, it's good for the carrier as well. But that is their job. Doing it well should not be held against them.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 03:45 am Post Subject:
Thanks for the replies - it's looking like we'll sit tight on the medical settlement for a little while and hope nothing serious develops. The only thing worse than unexpected hospital time, is unexpected, unpaid for, hospital time.
Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:41 am Post Subject:
I don't have much to add tcope did a terrific jog...I ran your vehicle and came up with 3375.00 plus the following (if your vehicle has these) add 100 for alumin/alloy wheels-100 for power seat-325 for power sunroof, and deduct 375 if NOT an automatic tranny....You ''might'' get the adjuster to give you a little money for anything above 50% tread on your tires...another option, if you have the old tires, have them put back on and take your new ones...more than likely they will fit what you buy...and this is fine, people do it all the time...same with stereo etc...as long as you lay the old one in the car (tell/ask the adjuster first)....
re: injury settlements I'm with tcope they are doing their job...personally were it me, I would come back with, ''how about 700 for my wife, and that open ended release for 3k for 90 days not 30...and 500 for the baby"...then they will come back, with something and settle some where in the middle...
They will also owe you (in some form) the sales tax on the ACV (actual cash value) of your vehicle....
RE: recent engine work...depends on what it was...if maintence (tune up etc) doesn't add anything...if however you had a new or rebuilt motor recently put in...that will add some...
Let us know if we can be of further assistance, and how things turn out...
BTW I agree with tcope Allied did their job....(well)...
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 05:25 am Post Subject:
That's a good idea about asking for slightly higher settlement - this has been a headache to deal with (and it was just a little accident). Is this something that she'll be expecting since we didn't sign right away? Should I do it over the phone or send her a letter explaining reasons why we feel like we should get more?
Since the settlement is for medical pain and suffering, is it valid to tack on some of the "suffering" we've been having with the car and trying to locate a replacement, or would she consider those separate issues?
Thanks again for the help.
-Brian
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 05:45 am Post Subject:
It's fine if you don't settle now, it happens all the time. Allied just made the offer to put it out there. You can just tell the adjuster you feel like you should wait a little while before determining if any medical treatment is needed and you appreciate the initial offer. The adjuster will probably remind you that for any ongoing medical treatment or if treatment should happen to start later down the road, they will need to have medical records to confirm that the treatment is related to the accident.
Pain and suffering are called General Damages. They are called that as they really cannot be defined very well. But they _are_ only related to an injury. Your asking if the hardship of finding a car can be added in to this. Well, technically no. But how much is a broken arm worth? How much is a cut above the eye worth? Every case is different. There is no way to know an exact amount. So how would you add in the hardship of finding a vehicle? If you did, you'd probably be asking for too much (unless your expecting too little :) ). To look at it from another point of view... is it really _that_ hard to find a vehicle? You look around on the Internet and then go into a few dealerships or call a few people. It's really not that hard. But I understand where you are coming from.
When you want to settle you can send a letter explaining your point of view but you will also need to speak to the adjuster directly. You can't negotiate via mail. I'd recommend putting together some key points ahead of time to show your perspective. Don't go over board with little details, just hit on the larger issues. The adjuster will come back with points of his/her own. The key part is not to take offense to these points. There are two sides to every story. You might even acknowledge that you understand the adjusters point of view and appreciate them (a little sugar always helps). Perhaps counter with a few other comments. You will also need to make a demand. If it's reasonable but a little high (and it should be), the adjuster will tell you that they cannot got near that amount... but they can do xx amount. This might be true, it might not. But rest assured, if settlement is reached, it will be someplace in the middle. Once you feel the adjuster is not going to offer any more, you can almost always get them to increase their offer by a little by telling them you will settle for $xx more. They usually are not going to give up a done deal for a little amount of money.
Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:39 am Post Subject:
Personally I go for the phone....I'd just say, something like, 'well we've discussed it and honestly think that blah blah (amount) for my wife, and blah blah for the baby, would be a fairer amount and we would feel comfortable settling for that amount...I wouldn't offer up any 'reasons' for the additional amounts unless I was directly asked for the same...some adjusters will ask some will not...I personally don't get into that unless someone is asking for the moon or way above my offer...I KNOW why they want more, they want more money! :lol: :lol: Or you can simply not settle at all for now...ask the adjuster to call you back in a month, or whatever....re: the pain in the butt settlement (haha) no, we can't pay that....good night nurse imagine what our premiums would be if we could ! haha...I do also though understand....please keep us informed on your progress.
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