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 Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: Clergy insurance |
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With the rising health care costs in the U.S. it's become difficult for churches to maintain quality health insurance. Is there a way out for pastors?
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Faith_clergyman
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, the pastors are struggling with the rising premiums along with other expenses like the co-pays and deductibles. It's also true that the carriers are offering less coverage alongside the rise in costs. Churches should now be careful while choosing policies. It's time they set their priorities. |
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steven
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Is there a way out for pastors? |
Steven's answer is as vague as your question. GIGO.
If what you're asking is are there less expensive health care insurance options, the answer may be yes.
You don't indicate what the current coverage is, so there is no good starting point for a discussion. You also don't indicate what region of the US you are in, which is also important to know, or the age of the individuals involved.
Provide a few more details and the answers might be more specific.
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MaxHerr
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:04 am Post subject: |
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We have Christian health insurance which lets us share medical costs on a monthly basis. Hope you've heard about it. We're from Florida and most of us in our 40s.
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Faith_clergyman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:27 am Post subject: |
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My friend, I don't think it's easy to find Clergy insurance. It really needs an effort. You have to compare coverage costs alongside their features. Consult with any independent agent in your locality. Ask queries regarding all your doubts.
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Juanita
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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It is said that Insurance companies shall pay a part of 660 Million $ paid on behalf of Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Los Angeles to settle Clergy Sex Abuse of children.
I understand Insurance on Accidents as accidents do happen, but sexual abuse is intentional.
Will that not encourage the Abusers?
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Grinshan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We have Christian health insurance which lets us share medical costs on a monthly basis. Hope you've heard about it. We're from Florida and most of us in our 40s. |
Are you talking about "Medi-Share" (there's really no insurance company such as "Christian Health Insurance")? The potential problem there is that you could be exposed to claims that you don't have the ability to pay. You might be saving some on premiums but your risk exposure may be more than you realize.
You should consult with an experienced agent in your community or local area for health insurance options. Do you not have an insurance agent or broker in your congregation?
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MaxHerr
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:06 am Post subject: |
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We have Samaritan Ministries. We were told that it's legitimate.
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Faith_clergyman
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| Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You might be saving some on premiums but your risk exposure may be more than you realize. |
Are you referring to Medishare over here? Do you have a better option for us?
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coolpix55
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:46 am Post subject: |
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See, an agent won't ever let you know about a better product that's being offered by their competitor. So, it's up to you to shop for the best offer all by yourself!
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anonymous00
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | We have Samaritan Ministries. We were told that it's legitimate. |
As a Christian and an insurance agent (and Treasurer of my church), I can tell you I would never recommend such a plan to my pastor or our church staff, or any of our members. I find such "pay for prayer clubs", as this ministry truly is, abhorrent and not part of God's Plan.
You are paying money for "prayers, encouragement," and the possibility that if your financial need is published in their monthly newsletter, some other Christians will respond to your need with some of their money.
Mostly, however, I think they are expecting you to contribute more money to the needs of others (see the sentence I have bolded in their FAQ 2 response below).
According to the Samaritan Ministries International Inc website, the cost is $135/mo for a single person, $270/mo for a couple (what? no discount?), $200/mo for a single-parent family, or $320/mo for a two-parent family. In most states, you can find honest-to-goodness health insurance that ACTUALLY PAYS BILLS for the same amount of money or less.
And you can still have people praying for you, which doesn't cost anything if you belong to a local church or have access to some other ministry with a prayer chain.
I am personally troubled by the first three of the FAQ response statements they make:
To Q1:
| Quote: | | We believe Jesus Christ is the Ultimate Provider for all of life’s needs. Individuals and families have the primary responsibility for their own health and decisions related to seeking health care. When they have burden that are greater than they can bear, we firmly believe that the body of Christ, at the local church level first, and then in a broad corporate sense, should bear one another’s burdens to fulfill the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2). |
To Q2:
| Quote: | | Insurance is usually thought of as a contract whereby one party agrees to be legally responsible for and accept another party’s risk of loss, in exchange for a payment called a premium. Samaritan Ministries is an arrangement whereby Christians share to assist one another with medical expenses through voluntary giving. We are not licensed or registered by any insurance board or department, since we are not practicing the business of insurance. We do not assess applicants’ health risks, because neither the ministry nor the members are assuming financial liability for any other member’s risk. Unlike insurance, the focus of Samaritan Ministries’ need sharing is not on what you can receive financially if you have a need, but on how you can help others with the needs they have right now (Acts 20:35). |
And to Q3:
| Quote: | | When health care costs are paid by someone other than the person receiving care, typically an insurance company or the government, the Biblical model outlined in question 1 can be undermined. We believe many of the current problems with the health care system are the direct result of restricting personal freedom and responsibility through dependence on third-party payers. |
Galatians 6:2 (NIV) states:
| Quote: | | Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ. |
But they conveniently omit the next three verses (Gal 6:3-5 NIV):
| Quote: | | If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load. |
Which is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? Carrying one's own load, or carrying that of others to the exclusion of one's own?
Acts 20:35 (NIV) states:
| Quote: | | In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' " |
I think the five verses that precede v35 are more important (Acts 20:30-34 NIV):
| Quote: | Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.
"Now I commit you to God and to the word of his grace, which can build you up and give you an inheritance among all those who are sanctified. I have not coveted anyone's silver or gold or clothing. You yourselves know that these hands of mine have supplied my own needs and the needs of my companions. |
If Samaritan Ministries International Inc is not perverting Scripture to its own benefit by taking single passages out of context, then my BA in Religion is useless. I can understand their reaction to government-provided healthcare and I agree that our healthcare system, including insurance, needs some corrective action. But the current system is mostly working, and working fairly well for all but about 15% of our citizens.
Personal responsibility -- something I find lacking in much of American society -- in the context of Christianity and healthcare demands that I do the right things with the money God graciously allows me to have. One of those things is to use insurance appropriately to cover the risks to which I and my family are exposed. I can do that with 100% of my savings (not enough to cover all of the risks) or I can do that with a small portion of my money by purchasing insurance.
Doing this (purchasing insurance) frees up the larger portion of my money to support God's work by tithing, contributing sacrificially to other ministries of my church and others, and supporting the weak, such as our church recently did by having members put together backpacks full of school supplies for children living in a local mobile home community whose parent(s) could not afford to do so -- we gave out close to 100 such packs, all paid for by the members who donated them (my wife and I were able to provide two of them).
I don't begrudge Samaritan Ministries International, Inc, anything. But they are taking money and providing no benefit -- other than publishing your "need" in a newsletter. I don't see much difference between that and the TV preachers who ask for your support at the expense of the local church.
God calls on us to provide for our own families in addition to taking care of others. Insurance is one of those provision in modern society. Commercial insurance did not exist at the time Jesus ministered to the world, but if it did, we would have been given clearer thoughts on the subject by Him.
So I suggest you take a look at these passages of Scripture:
The prudent see danger and take refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it. (Proverbs 27:12 NIV)
Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. (Proverbs 6:6-8 NIV)
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. (1 Timothy 5:8 NIV)
We are called on to care of the widows and orphans, although the clear meaning in Scripture is to do so sacrificially. We are not called on to forsake our own families in the meantime. God grants each of us an income and expects us to use it most appropriately -- THAT'S personal responsibility. 1 Timothy 5:8 really says it best -- if you don't provide for your own family, what kind of Christian are you? You can do it with cash, insurance, or prayers, but I find nothing in Scripture that says prayer alone is the only God-blessed solution.
Paying your God-given money to someone else in order to have nothing more than access to a prayer chain, with no guarantee of having one's immediate health care/financial need covered by the money required in a modern society is IRRESPONSIBLE in my understanding of Scripture.
On the other hand, using insurance to protect against all sorts of "dangers" is both prudent and being personally responsible . . . because it is ALSO showing concern for others (the doctors, hospitals, and others who will provide your care) and their families.
As I have said previously, find a local insurance agent who can review and assess your needs and recommend an appropriate form of insurance within your means. If it helps, find a Christian insurance agent. There are plenty of us who will help you come to a better reconciliation of insurance and Scripture than I believe Samaritan Ministries International Inc. does.
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MaxHerr
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| Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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And in other news (published on the Samaritan Ministries International Inc website, of all places):
Kentucky court decision won’t affect Samaritan Members
August 27th, 2010
Yesterday the Kentucky Supreme Court rendered a 5-2 split decision finding that Medi-Share, a health care sharing ministry, was insurance and did not qualify for a “Religious Publication Exemption.” (An exemption crafted for charities operating a health care sharing ministry.) The decision won’t affect Samaritan members. See the press release for more information.
Conveniently, the "press release" is not yet found on their website. A newspaper account of the Court's decision can be read (at least for now) at http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2010/08/26/29- christian-insurance.html?sid=101
Samaritan Ministries believes they are immune from such legal entanglement. "Medi-Share 2.0" operates somewhat differently than Samaritan Ministries, and Samaritan Ministries may, indeed, be immune, since there is no "pool" of money there. But that should provoke the question, "Where does the money Samaritan members pay each month actually go, and what is it used for, since none of it goes to any of the other members?" Sounds a lot like a get-rich-quick scheme. I would like to think it's not, since it's being done in the name of Jesus.
What they are doing is taking money from folks who could be using it to provide actual health insurance for themselves and their families, leaving those same persons exposed to the very real risk of not being able to get the care they need when they need it.
That's not biblical.
In another article, located at http://online.worldmag.com/2010/08/27/medi-share-to-request-rehearing- of-ruling/
According to Christian Care Ministry President Robert Baldwin, this principle is what differentiates Medi-Share from insurance companies: Medi-Share members “have remained responsible for their own medical bills . . . [and] have voluntarily shared in the payment of all eligible medical expenses.”
Apparently Mr. Baldwin has never explored the concept of [health] insurance as a commercial enterprise. When people buy insurance, they remain responsible for their own medical bills. The insurance company creates a pool of "voluntary givers" (premium payers -- until Obamacare takes effect, no one in America is forced to buy health insurance, except perhaps in one state in the northeast) who share in the payment of all eligible expenses.
I, like the Kentucky Supreme Court, see no difference in Christian Care Ministry's Medi-Share 2.0 plan compared to honest-to-goodness commercial health insurance.
In this same article, an appeal is made to the First Amendment right of freedom of religion.
“Medi-Share is a group of believers who say ‘we believe in this principle to help share one another’s medical bills under Medi-Share’s guidelines,’” said Christian Care general counsel Stephen Sullivan. “It’s an act of faith because there is no guarantee that their bills will be paid.”
On the Medi-Share website, they use the semantics of "sharing" as if it were something other than "paying bills" (emphasis added):
| Quote: | Only the cost of American Medical Association (AMA) approved testing, treatments, and up to six months of FDA approved prescription drugs per condition will be considered for sharing. They must be ordered by a Medical Doctor (M.D.), Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.), Nurse Practitioner (N.P.), Physicians Assistant (P.A.), or Doctor of Podiatric Medicine (D.P.M.) and be performed at a hospital, surgery center, clinic, doctor's office, approved lifestyle center, or diagnostic facility, with some limitations (see Sections VII. B. and VIII. E. and F.). To be considered for sharing, diagnosis and treatment must be performed in the U.S. except in cases of emergency or when missionaries are serving abroad.
Medical bills cannot be considered for sharing unless they are submitted by the provider on a CMS 1500 or a UB and IB form (healthcare industry standard). |
They also describe their program as
| Quote: | Medi-Share is Christian Healthcare Sharing.
Medi-Share brings believers together to share each other’s healthcare costs. . . . And when you have a medical incident your fellow believers have committed to sharing with and praying for you! It’s that simple! |
Well, when I have medical insurance, although I might not be praying for the needs of any of my fellow insureds (of whose needs I am unaware), I certainly am sharing in those needs through my contribution of premium dollars that the insurance company uses to pay their claims. In the meantime, I have peace of mind knowing that if I need healthcare services, and unlike Medi-Share or Samaritan Ministries, I have a guarantee that my covered expenses will be paid according to the contract I have received as I share in the pool of money collected by my insurer.
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MaxHerr
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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What? Did I frighten you all away with these last two posts?
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CA-licensed P&C Broker-Agent and Life Agent. CA Insurance Lic #0596197. Now investigating insurance company abuses, and providing litigation support and expert witness services. Send me your questions, and I'll send you my answers. |
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MaxHerr
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