Statement: 的 used to be an Insurance Claims Supervisor.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:34 pm   Post subject: I forgot to add this, someone emailed this example to me  

Quote:
Robert Dietz was a senior claims adjuster for Farmers Insurance Exchange from 1987 until 2001. He currently is a claims practices expert and testifies nationally on insurance issues and bad faith.

Statement: ツ的 used to be an Insurance Claims Supervisor. When I started out, it was human beings making decisions. Now insurance companies use computer programs to automatically cut 20 percent from what they know they owe on a claim.ツ

In the mid-1990s, consulting companies introduced software programs that turned claims operations into ツ菟rofit centersツ by routinely underpaying





A KING-5 investigation into insurance business strategies found that insurance companies have adopted strategies designed by business consultants to reduce claim payouts based on profit motives, not on what was owed for the claim. The consultants urged ツ杜ore aggressive tactics when settling claims to send a message to lawyers and the publicツ and that ツ菟aying "promptly and fairly" does not reward Allstate shareholders with profits.ツ KING-5 found that Allstate and State Farm are former McKinsey clients.iv claims. The programs helped adjusters place values on insurance claims.




If you want to read the entire article here is a link.



Maybe you could call Mr Deitz and see if he got his bonus.



http://www.farmersinsurancegroupsucks.com/pdf/farmers_insurance_rob_di etz.pdf



Link deactivated - Evan


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:41 pm   Post subject: On the subject of bonuses  

Quote:
Statement: ツ的 was forced to use it. You even got bonuses for denying claims.ツ

According to memos from Farmers, Dietz and his colleagues' salaries and bonuses were tied to practices that encouraged the delay, denial, underpayment and forced litigation of claims. One document encouraged adjusters to settle small claims below their value, adding adjusters should learn ツ督to say ツ都orry, no more,ツ with a toothy grin and mean it.ツ琶ii


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 7:21 pm   Post subject:   

Nice site Mike read the fine print by chance?

Quote:
All content and information on this site is my opinion or the opinion of those referenced. This site is for educational purposes. The information in the Forums or from other people, blogs or web sites are provided at face value, we have not confirmed any of these stories/opinions




Once again the ONLY links you provide are from gripe sites, (this particular owner even calls his a gripe site)...now he (the site owner) may have a legitiment complaint, and certainly a passion...I have never said there aren't some bad things that happen on the carrier side and certainly should be delt with harshly....



But the fact of the matter is you are STILL not proving this statement or any others you have made!!!! Why can you not see that?



The ONE count them ONE, not ''often'' or
Quote:
Adjusters are often rewarded
and that isn't even backed up with any data, and vague at best!

Quote:
I almost got a clean break from the forum without being a bald faced liar, a thief, a man with no integrity. Oh well.
Actually I said the statement was a bald face lie, and you have yet to prove that isn't correct...don't remember calling you a thief, other than to ask how you too would like the broad generalization that all in your craft are theives..as you insist on labeling all adjusters/carriers, oh, you throw out a, 'not all' once in a while then make comments like you did in this thread, then wander all over the place, like talking about an adjuster you had an argument with a few years ago (what did that have to do with anything?) never ever proving your statements, or atleast admitting they are nothing more than over exaggeration, based on hearsay, and personal opinion.....no integrity, well lets see the definition of integrity.........nope, I'm not gonna' do it, spent 15 minutes typing it and erased, it, not gonna sink to that level....I think your posts speak for themselves..


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 8:40 pm   Post subject: As for the content of the story  

So if a story taken from a major news source and the entire contents or story is pasted in a blog, that makes it not true. If you want credible news sources they can be found. But the point was made effectively just the same.



Quote:
Are you freakin' kiddin' me? In that case, Mike you are 'rewarded' for OVER CHARGING people for the work you do on their cars....




I believe this is the comment I was referring to that you claimed I was a thief. Thieves overcharge , I do not.



I don't recall hurling a personal insult at you Lori, I am puzzled why you have taken the low road implying I am a liar and a thief. I have supported every assertion I have made. I am sorry you don't like the sources. I have not made a blanket statement that all insurers and all adjusters operate this way, but there are some. I have pointed out that their is corruption in both industries and both need cleaning.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:23 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
I believe this is the comment I was referring to that you claimed I was a thief. Thieves overcharge , I do not.


That was in response to your statement about being rewarded for ripping people off because you get to keep your job...I didn't call you a liar, but said that statement is a bald face lie and it is...if you'd EVEN say, 'occasionally' or there have been times, but oh no ''often'' adjusters are rewarded for well screwing people over...that is a lie....period.....then when you are called on it by either myself or tcope you come back with
Quote:
there are some.
I agree there are 'some'' then why can't you say that to begin with instead of intentionally over dramatizing in an awkward attempt to mislead readers into thinking this is an everyday occurance....there isn't a rational person that could read your comment and not think you were implying this is a common rather than an isolated incident and you know it Mike...and you do this all the time.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:57 pm   Post subject: You know what I really truly believe?  

I believe it is the rule more than the exception. Not because low level adjusters and appraisers are evil or bad, it's because of the way in which Insurance management and bean counters have decided to operate. I am speaking in reference to my earlier post regarding the Mckenzy documents which suggest that the insurance industry would recieve greater profits and lower claims payouts by playing tougher and denying claims.



In the state of Washington, denying claims became the rule rather than the exception to the point that legislation was passed that tripled damages on insurers that denied paying claims in which they knew they owed. The insurance industry claimed foul and initiated a petition to have the people vote by referendum. They were so certain that people were being led astray by the collision industry and greedy trial lawyers (your industry's words), that they put over ten million of their collective funds together to overturn the legislation. The people weren't fooled and the legislation is intact for the people.



I believe drp's are veiled illegal arrangements designed to underpay claims by by controling collision shops. These arrangements currently are under examination by more than one state attorney general.



Furthermore, numerous attorney generals are being asked to examine the UPL statutes within each state to determine if an insurer requiring agreed pricing and allowing collision businesses to represent vehicle owners on claims settlements could be construed as the unauthorized practice of law. Insurers want shops to reach agreed pricing, but really do not want shop owners representing consumers on repair issues when they differ from the insurer criteria or investigation. They claim tortious interference when we play body shop adjuster, but turn around and require shops to enter into those negotiations when it's for their enrichment.



If a consumer requested to examine a copy of your company's direct repair agreements or a concierge type agreements, would you allow it? No; Insurers claim those are proprietary documents. Are insurers afraid that if scrutinized in the light of day, that the public may think so as well. Any shop that signs a contract promising to indemnify the insurer for decisions the insurer makes such as clipping a car or using reman wheels or used parts need to have their heads checked. All contracts ask for such indemnification. In reality garagekeepers liability policies have been proven to not cover such willful acts regardless if the insurer specified it.



Most states have or are attempting to pass legislation prohibiting insurers from interfering with consumer choices, commonly referred to as steering. Insurers believe steering to preferred shops should improve quality which it hasn't. However it has improved the insurance industry's bottom line the last four years in particular because of controled costs which many percieve also affect safety and quality of the repair. I personally do not believe legislation will help as it hasn't in any state that now have those laws. Insurers find ways of circumventing the steering laws and are now claiming first amendment corporate free speech rights being denied in California for not being able to tell consumer why they shouldn't use the consumers chosen shop after they have made it clear.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:42 am   Post subject:   

Well, once again, totally off topic.....not one time did you address my gripe...I'm not even surprised anymore...



Have you actually read any DRP contract? Because the one I'm looking at right now says nothing at all like you are (once again) attempting to portray....Let me tell you something that the DRP contracts/repairs do help the consumer with....The shop that won't back up their repairs, and just send an owner with a repair complaint packing, (and you know this happens all the time Mike, they shop got their money and now they are done)... that's a huge asset to the consumer....if a DRP shop (in my company) refuses to make something right, they are gone...pure and simple and we (the carrier) will pay to make it right if they shop won't because we are (in the contract and warranty issued) backing their work....I personally would have zero problem showing a consumer the DRP contract if they wanted a copy of it and were repairing their vehicle at one of the shops....I really doubt I would get any flack from the higher ups either, although I would ask because it's not my property...wait, in fact I did give a copy to an insured once....for those who care to know it says I nor anyone from my company is getting nor will get any 'favors' and if an adjuster even hints at such the shop is to call the company (numbers provided) it also says (and they have to prove) the shop carriers blah blah amount of liablity ins...it further states that they are to repair the vehicle based on industry standards, and what EXACTLY is on the AGREED estimate...no discounts, no favors asked of the shop other than taking care of our mutual customer and repairing the vehicle.....



Once more Mike, horrific statements made without proof ........Adjusters are often rewarded for under cutting claims.........same song different verse, do I see a pattern here?



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:20 pm   Post subject: Just who do you work for  

Once again, Lori, if you can't disprove the message or it is not as you believe, you then attack the messenger. If you are looking for a central theme in my posts it is that insurers have no business in the collision industry business.



Just read some of the stories and editorials from shop owners and the condition of the industry at one of our trade magazines such as bodyshopbusiness.com or autobodyonline.com or abrn.com. There seems to be a common theme that paints the industry as in not so rosy a picture as you portray from YOUR shops.



The problem is not that shops are not willing to repair cars correctly, it is that insurers all to often refuse to pay what is really reasonable and necessary. The internet is full of video news stories about insurers standing behind their shops until poor repairs are uncovered and the insurer or shop buys the car from the owner in an attempt to hide and bury the facts, and that shop stays on the insurer preferred list. Why? Some of the abosolute worst violaters remain on insurers preferred lists. Why? It saves insurers money.



JD Powers reports that consumers are most happy when they select their own repair shop without insurer interference and are not happy when the insurer handles the repairs where the customer does not know who the repairer is.



Shops that sign these one sided agreements can not claim harm because they did not read and understand the contracts.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:18 am   Post subject: DRP Contract  

Can you paste a copy of the contract here for me? I am a consumer that will need work done and it would sure be helpful for me to make my decision.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:07 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Can you paste a copy of the contract here for me? I am a consumer that will need work done and it would sure be helpful for me to make my decision.
(nice try mike) who are you insured with? Post your full name and address, and email address, and if I can ascertain that you insured with the company I work for, and have a pending claim, (I may not need the pending claim part)...I'll get clearance to email it to you....or contact your rep and request they do so,...different states have different contracts.......
Quote:
Once again, Lori, if you can't disprove the message
provin' my point again Mike thanks.........meaning you can say anything you want as 'fact' and feel no moral obligation to prove your facts...rather the readers obligation to disprove it.....brilliant...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 2:23 pm   Post subject: That was not me, sorry.  

I already have read enough copies of contracts that I don't need yours to realize they are detrimental to shops. These contracts seem to float around on the internet if you know where to look. I have recent copies of a Farmers, Progressive, Allstate Pro, Harford, Met Life, State farm select, and USAA, contracts. I could get others if needed. But the gist of them are the same, you work for beans, don't ask for raises, work as cheap and as fast as you can, and we'll be grading you You'll pay for rentals, no fees for total loss administraction, no towing, no markup on sublet. You must use cheap and inferior aftermarket parts, use lkq parts we specify, do not speak to the owner on claims, and importantly promise to indemnify the insurer. You must take betterment and depreciation where applicable; but wait that may be claims settling and the unauthorized practice of law.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:14 pm   Post subject:   

My name is Billy Sebastian and the rest is not relevant right now because by your attitude I have already made up my mind not to trust the insurer, not my insurance by the way. I asked them and the shop they were trying to send me to for a copy and they insisted that it was not my concern.



I am not Mike and I live in Ohio but if I lived in Mike's city you can bet it would go to him. The insurance is progressive and at first they did not want to tell me what shop would fix the car. I found a shop not on any programs and they will fix it right, this owner had more brains than all six progressive people I talked to put together. It's no wonder they are losing money every month.



I'd still like to see you post a copy of the contract if you could or if you can't than can Mike?



Thanks Billy


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:39 am   Post subject:   

Every insurance company that I can think with the exception of Lori's Fantasyland Insurance Co., has a certain percentage of aftermarket or LKQ parts that must be used. They also must have the right "numbers" for repaired panels. We all know that the appraisers get rewarded for writing the lowest sheets and keeping the bottom line as cheap as possible. Its funny how Lori makes it out like such a thing would never take place. Just last week I was talking to a Progressive adjuster and he was telling me how bad the company is. His exact words were "We don't screw your shop any differently, we screw them all the same." We also discussed how awhile back my personal truck was wrecked and insured with Progressive. Progressive screwed me around for two months before finally paying for a frame. The Progressive adjuster then said "Too bad you didn't have rental coverage, we would of given you that frame alot quicker." This guy really is a good guy, but he works for the most crooked company in America. The conversation ended with me saying "Your a good man with a real bad company." He also mentioned to go on Jobvent.com and read the posts from Progressive employees.

Anything that Mike has ever posted is true and anyone who has any knowledge of the collision business will agree with this. As I have said before my father has been an adjuster for 30 years. I know how things really work. Its all about saving the company as much as possible. Do you think he doesn't tell me all the B.S. his company wants him to do. I know adjusters who are just plain embarrased to write estimates the way their company wants them to. You got a guy who is a ex-tech, knows everything there is to know, everyone knows he knows his stuff, them he is forced to write half a estimate because maybe the customer won't get the car fixed and cash the check. Then the insurer saves themselves lots of money. Some of the worst estimates I have seen are for 10 year old cars that have minor damage. One was a '97 Cutlass a older man owned. I wrote to replace the door, blend the front door and quarter, R+I all handles and moldings. The man then comes back with a estimate from Travelers to replace the door with a LKQ door. That was it. The only lines on the estimate were R+R door and refinish it. Well the car got fixed and Travelers got a nice big supplement. Well I'm done with this post now. So the next post will be from Lori and she will take every word I said and quote it and tell me how honest her insurance world is and how many bad shops are out there.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:41 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
But the gist of them are the same, you work for beans, don't ask for raises, work as cheap and as fast as you can, and we'll be grading you You'll pay for rentals, no fees for total loss administraction, no towing, no markup on sublet.
Quote:
You must use cheap and inferior aftermarket parts, use lkq parts we specify, do not speak to the owner on claims, and importantly promise to indemnify the insurer. You must take betterment and depreciation where applicable; but wait that may be claims settling and the unauthorized practice of law.


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I can say without question that two of these companies you have named..Notice how I only act like I know something about the two I am CERTAIN of? great concept, only saying things you know as fact...try it some time...
Quote:
Farmers, Progressive, Allstate Pro, Harford, Met Life, State farm select, and USAA
The above things (i have marked in red-sentence in 'bold' i have no idea what you are talking about, you don't need to be an attorney to settle claims, hell our state doesn't even require adjusters to be licensed surely YOU know that!) are NO WHERE IN THESE CONTRACTS AT ALL!!!!! and would wager not in the others either...

Quote:


My name is Billy Sebastian and the rest is not relevant right now because by your attitude I have already made up my mind not to trust the insurer, not my insurance by the way. I asked them and the shop they were trying to send me to for a copy and they insisted that it was not my concern.
What's my attitude have to do with it ''Billy'' you had this experience yesterday? geeeeeeze that makes no sense...
Quote:
The insurance is progressive and at first they did not want to tell me what shop would fix the car.
Geeze an insurance giant that doesn't want to 'steer' by telling you who their DRP's are? That's kind of the polar opposite of what Mike says...hmmmmm..ok I'll bite Billy, give me the names and numbers of the progressive people you talked to and I'll find out about it..or minimally the city in Ohio...



Quote:
I'd still like to see you post a copy of the contract if you could or if you can't than can Mike?
Gosh I don't know why Mike wouldn't/couldn't after all he says, he has seven ''recent'' ones in his possession....let's not do any editing now Mike.... Wink I look forward to reading them....
Quote:
I have recent copies of a Farmers, Progressive, Allstate Pro, Harford, Met Life, State farm select, and USAA, contracts


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:49 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori's Fantasyland Insurance Co., has a certain percentage of aftermarket or LKQ parts that must be used
Where did I say that wasn't true?
Quote:
Anything that Mike has ever posted is true and anyone who has any knowledge of the collision business will agree with this.
LaughingLaughingVery HappyVery HappyVery HappyRolling EyesRolling EyesRolling Eyes
Quote:
Well the car got fixed and Travelers got a nice big supplement.
And that is exactly what should've happened...If your dad is intentionally underwriting estimates, because he doesn't think a person will repair (not that your dad would do this on his own, if he is made to do this to keep his job) then why oh why doesn't dad go to his states DOI, and atty general because this is against the law......See I don't get that!
Quote:
take every word I said and quote it
just a few this time....
Quote:
and tell me how honest her insurance world is and how many bad shops are out there
never said the insurance world is 'all' honest, nor are 'all' the shops...but just as there are bad shops the majority are honest, same with adjusters and claims handling...


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