Not being a subcontractor, I am not sure if this applies to me.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:10 pm   Post subject: I have no central theme again nor answered any gripe.  

While I doubt that it is illegal for me to have in my possession any of these documents, it would possibly be illegal for me to post the entire copywrited document here for any company.



Progressive's confidentiality agreement says explicitly that the agreement is the property of Progressive and that I would need their permission to print it if I was one of their subcontractors. Not being a subcontractor, I am not sure if this applies to me. Never the less. if any consumer or shop owner wants to email me I would send a link to where you could find it online.



If you are a shop owner and you have signed one of these, I truly hope you have reconsidered and cut yourself from the program before you partner throws you under the bus.



If you are still a partner to some of these agreements, I can sympathize with you as I know many of you are feeling a little teary eyed after realizing what you may have signed.



Drp's are cryin a river these days because their partnerships haven't worked out the way they had hoped. If they had only had their attorneys read the documents. Now drp shops are complaining they are being steered against. What a concept. It was okay, til it happened to them even after they signed agreements and promised to work a little faster.



Crying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sadCrying or Very sad



I like the way ajusters for some companies refer to non-owned businesses as my shops. It is as if they own the shop. Oh wait, they almost do, they own their right to conduct business as an independent entity. Those contracted shops have to ask permission or say mother may I before they can use their professional judgement in repairing your vehicle. Now, how can a collision repair business that is nothing more than a marianette puppet on a string, have the testicular fortitude to stand up to an appraiser to tell them that what they have been asked to perform is not right. And where is the advocate for the consumer in an equation where the insurer and the collision shop are partnered. Raising objections with your partner will most certainly get you kicked off the program, but cheating the consumer from a quality repair may not. You just have to hope that the insurer's real interest isn't cost containment, but living up to the promise of the contract to make you whole or place you as you were prior to the loss; not patched up with sub standard taiwanese, korean, or chinese parts on your american made or your Japanese car.



If consumers want that kind of quality work, they should go with one of these companies that hire kids who were working at the mall one week before when they were selling shoes and dipping ice cream or jockeying rental cars to tell experts how to repair cars. It is so easy to train an adjuster for some of these companies, even a caveman or lizard can do it. Shove a shiny lap top and cell phone under their nose and put them in a little suv and you have them hooked til they begin to use that college education to understand how they are being manipulated. They can always go to jobvent.com to commiserate with fellow appraisers that hate what they are being asked to do. Or they can simply move on to other companies and infect them with the training.



It has to be intimidating to some of these trainees to walk into a shop and try to tell experts how to perform these repairs when the trainee doesn't know a cowl from a cow. Two weeks training and YOU TOO can know what it took years for experts in the collision industry to acquire in knowledge and skills. If you get real good, you may even earn a cubicle and you can then write estimates from pictures of cars you've never even physically examined.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:23 pm   Post subject:   

Lori, I guess every time I mention something a adjuster did you think it was my father. The estimate I was refering to was not written by him or anyone that works for the same company. He's a reinspector and rarely writes estimates anyway and I would never mention what company he works for or even give you a hint. Nice try. Why don't adjusters turn there companies in to the DOI? Perhaps because they will lose their jobs instantly and be labeled a trouble maker by the whole insurance industry. They might as well go tell their boss to go **** themselves.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:59 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Geeze an insurance giant that doesn't want to 'steer' by telling you who their DRP's are? That's kind of the polar opposite of what Mike says...hmmmmm..ok I'll bite Billy, give me the names and numbers of the progressive people you talked to and I'll find out about it..or minimally the city in Ohio...




Were did you get that they didn't wand to steer me?? They tried real hard and did not want to tell me were it would go at first, they just wanted me to drop it off and they will handle everything. I am real fussy with my car and I would want to be involved in the repair process to make sure everything is done right with quality parts. I don't need you to handle it, my attorney is doing just fine, I just wanted to see what the shop and insurer conspired to that I was not supposed to know. So you work for progressive?? And you have no objections if Mike posts a copy of the agreement here that you said you had no problem showing anyone but only if your bosses let you?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:11 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Were did you get that they didn't wand to steer me??
Because you said they wouldn't tell you the shop...that's where I got that...you didn't say in your orginal post that it (sounds like) that 'consierge' (spell ck not workin Evil or Very Mad )....thing that progressive has....from your post it sounded like a 'regular' DRP....
Quote:
were it would go at first
so they did then finally tell you? or minimally give you a list of shops?
Quote:
I am real fussy with my car and I would want to be involved in the repair process to make sure everything is done right
don't blame you a bit...i would be as well....
Quote:
So you work for progressive??
now where did i say that? Because I could get the information maybe? I'm a DRP/physcial damage rep as such I might be able to talk with a 'like' kind adjuster and get this information...
Quote:
you have no objections if Mike posts a copy of the agreement here that you said you had no problem showing anyone but only if your bosses let you
Why would I have a problem with mike posting any and all of the drp contracts he says he has? I "KNOW'' what two of them say, and Mike is (again) 100% wrong, whether his 'misinformation' is intentional or just ignorance well that's something everyone will have to judge on their own....IMO it is minimally intentionally misleading....I cannot post any documents belonging to my employer on the web without consent of course...but I have provided them to insureds, if you'd provide (thru a pm if you'd like) your real name, city, and state, and reps name/number and I could ascertain that you truly had/have a claim with progressive, I'll contact them and see if I can get a copy of their DRP agreement.....for the area you are in.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:55 am   Post subject: Wow!  

Lori, one of a class of people who would always tell you the truth, and you called Mike everything that he is not. I hope someday you will see that.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:26 am   Post subject:   

Sorry Cascade Dave, we disagree... I think he throws outlandish half truths around without any proof to back them up and generalizes all carriers/adjusters as well pretty much money grubbing, swamp sucking scum...IMO



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:39 pm   Post subject: Mike  

I get the impression that Mike "lives" in the gap between how adjusters are taught to write and pay an auto claim, and what the carriers will actually pay according to law. Do you agree Lori?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:59 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I get the impression that Mike "lives" in the gap between how adjusters are taught to write and pay an auto claim, and what the carriers will actually pay according to law. Do you agree Lori
Well Dave, I'm not sure, because I'm not sure I understand what you mean....could you explain it a little better.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:28 pm   Post subject: Well  

What I mean to say is that I think what Mike's world is all about dealing with car owners who want to collect what they feel fully indemnifies them. Like if they went to court and a judge would say, a labor rate of a few dollars more per hour charged for a repair operation was fair and reasonable. You know, that sort of thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:10 pm   Post subject: Lori, tell me if this sounds outlandish  

Quote:
sorry Cascade Dave, we disagree...i think he throws outlandish half truths around without any proof to back them up and generalizes all carriers/adjusters as well pretty much money grubbing, swamp sucking scum...IMO


Lori, here is something you can decide if you think I am making an outlandish statement and a half truth.



"Progressive insurance has a goal of persuading (steering, strongarming,whatever it takes) at least 55 percent of their customers to utilize their drp shops and their adjusters and employees are expected to persuade 45 percent of their customers into their DRP networks."



On a side note.

Lori, you seem to have picked up some bad habits since my first posts. I am not sure if the sugar coated compassionate Lori, is the real Lori, or if the adjective slinging paraphrasing version is the real you. Or maybe posters that have the testicular fortitude to tell it like it really is irk you to the point of losing your temper. This name calling is so beneath your image. This forum is jading your perspective of the reality of the collision industry. You really need to visit some forums that do not mince words or sugar coat the truth now that you are in to the mudslinging style.



If you aren't afraid of making the same statements and accusations you have hurled at me, come over to the www.prodiscussions.com board and maybe you could convince all that post there that they are pond sucking scum.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:10 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
On a side note.

Lori, you seem to have picked up some bad habits since my first posts. I am not sure if the sugar coated compassionate Lori, is the real Lori, or if the adjective slinging paraphrasing version is the real you. Or maybe posters that have the testicular fortitude to tell it like it really is irk you to the point of losing your temper. This name calling is so beneath your image. This forum is jading your perspective of the reality of the collision industry. You really need to visit some forums that do not mince words or sugar coat the truth now that you are in to the mudslinging style.
I am a very compassionate person Mike, and what has changed since your first posts actual is my lack of patience with your insisting on (for the most part not all) your labeling all companies and adjusters as pretty much scum...talk about name calling! you throw out when called on it the occasional 'well not all', but then continue on with comments (the one that really sent me over the edge, and you still didn't prove or back down from) that ''often'' adjusters are rewarded for under valueing claims! That is wrong wrong wrong...and not only incorrect, intentionally misleading (then you attempt to validate it by saying a person is 'rewarded' by keeping their jobs! pa-leez) ...but professionally and personally offensive...it appears your goal is to spew misinformation as fact in an effort to bring consumers to 'your side'....which frankly Mike there is plenty of 'true' things that could accomplish the same....THAT my dear Mike is what is responsible for my change in attitude toward you and your agenda.....speaking of agenda's and 'side notes' Mike all your talk about diminished value and 'helping' people with that...you get paid for that right Mike? How much? $199.00 a shot right? Just curious..
Quote:
This forum is jading your perspective of the reality of the collision industry.
..No, that isn't true, Mike I work in body shops all day long...I don't go to an office, nor do I have one...I spend all my day in body shops....
Quote:
If you aren't afraid of making the same statements and accusations you have hurled at me, come over to the www.prodiscussions.com board and maybe you could convince all that post there that they are pond sucking scum.


First of all read the post again, I said you consider all adjusters pond sucking scum....I didn't call you that...
Quote:
You really need to visit some forums that do not mince words or sugar coat the truth now that you are in to the mudslinging style.
Yeah, Mike I've been to those sites, you talk about foul! Geeeze you guys can't even get along, I've never seen so much 'in fighting' in my life....you can't find a thread on those sites where someone isn't calling someone a filthy name...that's where I want to spend my time you bet cha'


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Last edited by Lori on Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:18 pm
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 11:29 am   Post subject:   

I don't know Dave, maybe....however seriously doubt a Judge would get into labor rates....on an interesting note re: labor rates and Mike's contention that all insurance carriers under pay...I found this on one of ''his'' sites...check out the national average, and yes I can get Missouri's as well...I found this very interesting...







Quote:
Labor Rates From Across The United States US AVERAGE:

Body/Paint Labor Rate $46.36

Unibody/Frame Labor Rate $55.51

Mechanical $69.39

Paint Matl Charges Body Matl Charges $26.56 na




Now here is the interesting thing...this is what the company I work for pays..



body=46.00

frame=60.00

mech=65.00 (talk of raising this to 70.00 in the near future)

p&m=28.00



So as you can see there isn't the HUGE difference that some would like you to believe...hmmmmmmmmmm........


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:16 pm   Post subject:   

See folks by way of example...this is the ''type'' of thing our friend Mike does...I have threads devoted to little ole' me.....on his ''buddy'' sites...(by the way Mike I'd figured out which'mike' you were long ago Wink )



SOME EXCERTS FROM MIKE'S FAVORITE SITE...







Quote:
Mike, I doubt that there is a person known as Lori.

I believe that "she" is just a group of PR guys that are paid to spin the news in their favor to off set such sites as "Statefarmsucks and similar sites. "Her" responses are to well crafted and timely for it to be one person.
Thanks for the compliment there buddy! But I assure you I'm just me!



then he goes on to re-post and link one of our threads...thanks mike! I'm sure lakemen enjoys the hits!

Quote:
Lori, I too believe it is a waste of time to argue with her. But, you got to hand it to Mike, he ain't no quitter. Hey Mike, ever find out what insurance company Lori works for?
Hey I thought I wasn't one person?
Quote:
She squirms and squeals the loudest when you mention progressive and geico. She said she works for the company I bash the most. I think she took personal offense to the Progressive suits against shops on rental expenses. That would be my guess.
I said I work for one on your hate list which is pretty much every ins company....I did not take personal offense at your comment about the progressive suit merely your misleading information that they have an entire legal dept dedicated to sueing shops for rental bills...you came up with one suit...ha ha..you're a kick...





Quote:
if you might have helped someone down the line. You told the truth, and you backed up everything you said. What more can you do? I found the whole thing entertaining and educational. JMT - Dave

Be great if he actually did back up anything...hi dave !







Quote:
that forum is a total waste of time. I posted a link to a bad faith suit that was deleted almost the moment it hit... Lori is what she is, and if she wasn't, someone just like her would take her place as gatekeeper
"I" have never deleted any link on this site EVER......





Post this one for your buddy's mike.....you openly claim to want to reak havoc! not make things better....nice............



be sure and check out their ''good humor'' section, if you have a strong stomach..... Rolling Eyes certainly wouldn't want your kids or grandkids there that's for sure!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:19 pm   Post subject: Poor Lori,  

Quote:
First of all read the post again, I said you consider all adjusters pond sucking scum....I didn't call you that...




Neither did I, but if you keep repeating it enough, pretty soon it begins to sound like I may have made that pond sucking scum comment.



I am sorry you can't accept facts unless they come from the Wall Street Journal or some Insurance Journal or talking points sheet from your company. Some facts are, that I never lumped all insurers and all ajusters into your categories. These are pretty feeble attempts by you to discredit facts taken from many sources including depostions of ceo and adjusters of insurance companies.



It's pretty nastic poetic license for you to add adjectives to names I have never used to describe. If you can discredit someone by addressing facts you continue to sling diatribes of false accusations. This is typical of how insurers attempt to steer customers with innuendos and misrepresentation as long as it is condoned by the company. Corporate pockets are too deep for the average person to get vindication in the courts for much of the slanderous comments.



One has to realize that if Lori was to name her company, she might make them liable for many of her false accusations. The only people in the insurance companies that I recall even lumping together were the bean counters and corporate management that makes most of your decisions. Every company has rogue adjusters that cause PR grief for their companies.



If you ever get out of the insurance business, you have a future in the disinformation and propoganda business within some government entity, that's for sure. You really ought to introduce yourself to the buddies over at Pro D. Nice lumping there Lori! While I may know some of the posters there personally or have met them, I respect any of them that post there, because by doing so they risk facing insurer steering in concentrated amounts. You see some shop owners understand that we are not in the business of insurance and insurers are not in the business of collision repair and insurers claim not to be the repair experts when challenged in courts of law.



Some who post there, have even been recipients of judgements against insurers who have libeled and slandered their good names. Maybe you ought to stick to your policy issues, you do not really seem to have your facts in order. Not all shop owners shamelessly bend over and grab their ankles or pucker up and kiss the behinds of insurers to be their partners who later throw them under the bus. Others that post their even admit to being former insurance attorneys that helped to develope the very systems which systematically cripple and corrupt the collision industry by insurer interference for which they now regret.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:41 pm   Post subject: 46.00?  

Hi Lori, I see 90.00 once in a while for mech. time on insurance estimates. There just doesn't happen to be any time next to it. I can't think of any other service that I can buy for 46.00 per hour, can you? Maybe this explains why these parts drivers keep asking me why all of the big shops return about half of the parts that they order. Also I was wondering if it bothers you at all that you write R&I on estimates and watch the cars go through the shop with the items masked instead of removed. Thanks in advance for your reply. - Dave


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