rate on insurance estimates, just that there was no time next to it.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 6:01 pm   Post subject: Labor Rates  

Hi Lori, I tried to post a couple of times, but they didn't go through. If they do later, sorry. I have seen 90.00 per hour for mech. rate on insurance estimates, just that there was no time next to it. Are there any other comparable services that you can buy for 46.00 per hour that you can think of? Why do these parts drivers keep asking me why these big shops return about half of the parts that they order? In the shop that you are in, do you write to R&I items, but see them come through the shop masked off?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:43 am   Post subject:   

Laughing
Quote:
I have seen 90.00 per hour for mech. rate on insurance estimates, just that there was no time next to it
Laughing wow! that's crazy...kind of like half of nothin' is nothin' huh? crazy....
Quote:
Are there any other comparable services that you can buy for 46.00 per hour that you can think of?
I don't set the rates Dave, I just found those national averages...as you know most carriers will 'poll' shops...these rates that I posted were from shops...which I found very interesting....apparently they aren't as far apart as I was led to believe....as far as comparative services well know mechanics make more...( Rolling Eyes no I can't tell you why)....do you mean like other tradesmen?
Quote:
Why do these parts drivers keep asking me why these big shops return about half of the parts that they order?
What are you saying there Dave?
Quote:
In the shop that you are in, do you write to R&I items, but see them come through the shop masked off?
I actually work in seven different shops...and to answer your question NO NEVER...if they did I would request they be booted..have I ever seen that? Absolutely...did I throw a big fit, absolutely....


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:50 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
talking points sheet from your company
I don't even know what that means Mike... Confused Never read the wall street journal in my life...and no just a factual source...NOT OPINION..........
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The only people in the insurance companies that I recall even lumping together were the bean counters and corporate management
why don't you re-read your own posts mike, like the one that sent me over the edge, remember, ''often adjusters are rewarded'' remember that one..? if that ain't lumpin' all together I don't know what is shall I provide you with the definition of OFTEN....
Quote:
If you ever get out of the insurance business, you have a future in the disinformation and propoganda business within some government entity, that's for sure.
I suppose I should take that 'dis' information comment as a compliment coming from the master....Yeah MIke and some of the posters over there are or were DRP shops which you all promptly run off with your foul comments, and insults as well... Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:30 pm   Post subject: Look who is calling the kettle black  

Quote:
I suppose I should take that 'dis' information comment as a compliment coming from the master....Yeah MIke and some of the posters over there are or were DRP shops which you all promptly run off with your foul comments, and insults as well...




I have backed up everything I have said with factual stories from newspapers articles, trade magazine articles, newspaper articles embedded in blogs which is nothing more than this site is actually, depositions of adjusters, and other sources.



I am sorry you can't accept facts unless their are slanted to your beliefs.

As far as foul, I fail in comparison to your shots at taking liberties with accusations, innuendos, remarks, distortions. But then this is what some adjusters are trained to do I suppose.



I do not recall slinging mud to depths that you have. I do not believe I have ever called you a bald faced liar. You back track by stating you only suggested I made a bald faced lie. I do not see a distinction or difference here. To imply that one has made a bald faced lie, is to make the leap to implying that the person making that statement is a bald faced liar. You have portrayed me personally as a hater which I am not. I don't even hate or despise you. I just feel sorry that you feel you have to sink to the level you have to deflect some facts I make in generalizatons about SOME ADJUSTERS. I was almost out the door of this forum on good terms but you dragged me back in almost like you didn't want me to leave by personally attacking me when I made a generalization about some adjusters.



There are no posters over there that do not come here becasue of anything that I have said, they stated that they do not come here because basically you are a mouthpiece for the insurance industry and that I would be wasting my time trying to enlighten anyone without your interference.



See folks, this is the side of some adjusters we see when you challenge their supposed authority. They get mean real fast, they deny, they delay, and they distort the facts of the proof provided. This is typical of the conduct and reprehension we encounter when a shop owner becomes an advocate for the vehicle owner which is our customer.



But if you are part of the go along to get along collision ownership you get the nice adjuster as long as you play the game and don't make waves or ask for what you feel you are entitled because your business is your livelihood.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:18 pm   Post subject: What I am saying...  

Sometimes I feel like the guy in the audience at the magic show yelling out how the tricks are done. Think about it, pick some shop owner who maybe gets referrals from a dealer. What do you think the customer's expectation is? Could a shop owner or manager who would look that customer in the eye and let them think that they were working for them, knowingly and deceptively repair their car under the terms of a contract that they had signed before hand be honest. If they would cheat them, would they cheat you? Sometimes I think all you have to do is watch people to see how they treat people who they think don't matter, and you are seeing who they really are. I am glad to hear you say that you do and would say something if you found your company was paying for something and not getting it. In about the last five years there have been an increasing number of dealer parts departments who have lost accounts with large shops because they wouldn't take the large % of returns. Lori, who do you trust and respect more, someone who tells you what you want to hear, or someone who tells you what they believe to be true, even if they know it means confrontation? As corny as it sounds I have to say that it looks to me like you and Mike have a level of respect for each other, and what is most frustrating to you both is that you can't seem to convince each other that you are right and the other is wrong. I am not a post repair inspector but I am greatful for them and what they are doing for my industry. I think that many insurance company employees are greatful as well because they believe the "current system" to be broken. I will leave you with some quotes that have stuck with me over the years. (Head of a drp program to me) " man, I knew that shop was going to ruin that car when I sent them there". (me) "why did you send them there?" (him) "Well, we have to." (two adjusters standing at my front counter) "We're the biggest insurance company in the world and this is how we fix cars and you better get used to it!" (a customer to me) "Boy, they really push you hard to go to one of their shops. I said we have had these guys do work for us before, and they have always done a good job for us, and the girl that works there says thats where I had my car repaired too, and I asked then why did you tell me to go somewhere else, and she says well, we have to." Sorry about my bad punctuation, have a great day!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:49 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
You back track by stating you only suggested I made a bald faced lie. I do not see a distinction or difference here. To imply that one has made a bald faced lie, is to make the leap to implying that the person making that statement is a bald faced liar
Have it your way Mike...the statement you made about adjusters often being rewarded for screwing over people is a bald faced lie! There I said it again, if that makes you a liar, so be it...I would like to think you are terrible uninformed and believe every bad think you hear about an adjuster then 'if so chango' it turns into 'often'.....
Quote:
I just feel sorry that you feel you have to sink to the level you have to deflect some facts I make in generalizatons about SOME ADJUSTERS. I was almost out the door of this forum on good terms but you dragged me back in almost like you didn't want me to leave by personally attacking me when I made a generalization about some adjusters.
Me too...(feel sorry for me)...you have brought out a very defensive mama in me that I'll admit isn't very pretty...and I'm not real happy with myself in letting you get to me like you have (although I'm sure from reading many of the forums you participate on that this was your point all along).....you can say some adjusters all you want mike, but that NEVER comes out until you are called on it....I think you are a hater...sorry but I do, you have expressed pure distain for adjusters, ins companys and even people in your own industry that 'dare' to go against your opinions and views by becoming a DRP shop....you even make the ascertian that they can't even repair a vehicle correctly....come on...hater...yep, i think so...I work in body shops all day long mike, have very close dear friends that are techs, appraisers, managers and owners...''I"" have no problem with shops AT ALL....I do have a problem when you (as I've said about a hundred times) when you make statements (like the 'reward' one) that you can't (and still haven't) backed up....(ONE guy/adjuster/article is NOT often and you know it, same with progressive having a legal dept sueing shops, you provided ONE case)....
Quote:
I made a generalization about some adjusters
first of all how do make a 'generalization' about 'some' adjusters? that doesn't even make sense?
Quote:
See folks, this is the side of some adjusters we see when you challenge their supposed authority. They get mean real fast, they deny, they delay, and they distort the facts of the proof provided. This is typical of the conduct and reprehension we encounter when a shop owner becomes an advocate for the vehicle owner which is our customer.



But if you are part of the go along to get along collision ownership you get the nice adjuster as long as you play the game and don't make waves or ask for what you feel you are entitled because your business is your livelihood.
read 'em all honey, I didn't get 'red' till that 'reward' crap and you know it...anyone else would too, if they felt their profession was portrayed as bribe takers which is what you meant, or minimally paid in some way for ''intentionally undervalueing claims'' ....bull........
Quote:
Lori, who do you trust and respect more, someone who tells you what you want to hear, or someone who tells you what they believe to be true, even if they know it means confrontation?
Of course Dave, clearly I don't shy from confrontation...and believe it or not do see others sides...
Quote:
As corny as it sounds I have to say that it looks to me like you and Mike have a level of respect for each other, and what is most frustrating to you both is that you can't seem to convince each other that you are right and the other is wrong.
I'll have to agree with you Dave, and prior to the 'reward' comment (which he wouldn't take back, and would've changed everything!)...I had the utmost respect for Mike and his 'passion' whether I agreed or not....even offered to help him mediate, or give him some (off the record) assistance with some companies/adjusters...Just (IMO) went way too far with that one...
Quote:
I am not a post repair inspector but I am greatful for them and what they are doing for my industry. I think that many insurance company employees are greatful as well because they believe the "current system" to be broken
.Again I agree, it's also a rough job (did it for a year)...but agreed we (as consumers) really do need this....
Quote:
" man, I knew that shop was going to ruin that car when I sent them there". (me) "why did you send them there?" (him) "Well, we have to." (two adjusters standing at my front counter) "We're the biggest insurance company in the world and this is how we fix cars and you better get used to it!"
Why state farm would send a vehicle to shop that does lousy work...? I can't answer that....nor do I agree with it...at all...."
Quote:
Boy, they really push you hard to go to one of their shops. I said we have had these guys do work for us before, and they have always done a good job for us, and the girl that works there says thats where I had my car repaired too, and I asked then why did you tell me to go somewhere else, and she says well, we have to." Sorry about my bad punctuation, have a great day!
This happens daily DAve, and I agree that it does..do I agree with it? NO!...am I seeing a change (in my company anyway)? You had better believe it..and should thrill non-drp shops to pieces...in the 'scripts' now, I think twice or three times...they 'have' to say, ''you understand you don't have to go to one of our preferred shops'' you understand you can repair your vehicle where you want'' etc (that's not exact of course but close)...the are 'preserving' the customer choice...now you likley won't see a big change for awhile, but I do think carriers are realizing that the high pressure push isn't the way to go....Should they (IMO) offer them (drp) yep, tell the owner the 'perks' then let them decide....


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:58 am   Post subject: Not State Farm...  

The two guys were from AIG.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:33 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
The two guys were from AIG.
Aren't they an independent adj.company? They arent' an actual insurance company right?
Quote:
"We're the biggest insurance company in the world
This statement is of course where I got that idea...it was state farm...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:48 pm   Post subject: They were company employees  

One was a local adjuster and the other was I think a regional manager. It was at least five years ago, they seemed to think they were the largest in some category. LOL. It got kind of ugly, it is the only time I have ever showed anyone to the door.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:12 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
they seemed to think they were the largest in some category. LOL.
that is funny dave...and the real funny thing is I believe I'm right about this...they have to follow whatever rules and guidelines the 'hiring' company has set forth..which is different for nearly every company.don't know that they even have any of their own! Laughing I think the AIG thing is a regional problem...where I'm at all the shop complain bitterly about them...but then in the eastern part of my state the shops think their great! Rolling Eyes I think it's like that with every company/adjuster...I'm still crackin' up about the largest ins. company in world thing...


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Last edited by Lori on Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:15 pm
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:05 pm   Post subject: I almost always see independants from them now...  

the reason for the differences you have heard of could be some different policies that they offer. We repair high end cars and they sell a policy that is like a VIP policy. The purchasers of this might even be self insured in some way but a claim is processed through them. No alternate parts allowed.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:18 pm   Post subject:   

You know there is (I think) one or two companies that offer an endorcement, that is for new oem parts only, in the case of a repair...I (duh) wish every company would offer the same, and think it's a terrific idea...it takes all the arguement out of any repair, (1st party) since folks tend to not read their policys, and realize it's spelled out right there what parts can be used...maybe it's something like that.....wonder what else this VIP policy provides? I'll have to check that out, probably a good idea....course as you know many of the higher end vehicles they don't even make any a/m parts for and finding used many times not even worth the phone call.



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:10 pm   Post subject: Its all about greed  

Moderator, I work in the auto body industrie, and I will tell you we work with every insurance company out there.After reading all the stuff between you and Mike, I will tell you Mike is more on the money about what and how SOME adjusters and companies do business with body shops!! You as a customer will always be treated better than the shop gets treated. We are told day in and day out what we will have to accept to repair the vehical to its prior loss condition. I will tell you there are a lot of items body shops have to eat,example our body shop supplies(i.e tape sandpaper, fillers ect) 99.9% of insurance companies will not pay for that.Well someone had to.I again will say I have to side with Mike and his views.The adjuster is there to save the company money, usually at the shops expense!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:55 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
After reading all the stuff between you and Mike,
ah we just do these tread wars to entertain the masses.. Wink actually this tread is over a year old...
Quote:
about what and how SOME adjusters and companies do business with body shops!!
I've always maintained, there are good and bad in both, crappy adjusters, crappy shops, crappy companies...but never ever ever are ''all'' of them crappy.. Wink
Quote:
You as a customer will always be treated better than the shop gets treated.
I'm not real clear on what that statement means...are you saying that the vehicle owner will always be treated better by whom? The insurance adjuster, and company, than the shop is treated by the same?
Quote:
We are told day in and day out what we will have to accept to repair the vehical to its prior loss condition.
Do you accept that if it's not all inclusive? If you do why? I guess what I'm asking is, if you are repairing vehicles and making no profit, why would you do that? How can you stay in business that way?
Quote:
The adjuster is there to save the company money,
agreed..
Quote:
usually at the shops expense!
nope, don't agree...not saying it doesn't happen...just saying it shouldn't...I don't think any shop I work with or have worked with over the past 20 plus years would say that I got in their pocket..


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:39 pm   Post subject:   

That thread occured during our post honeymoon period, the therapists and counselors have us speaking amicably to each other these days. However we still have our differences of opinions and we just agree to disagree more often than not these days. Too much energy is expended negatively to help anybody with an issue if we fight all the time. And that goes for Cousin T as well. We just like to push each others buttons and we're definately going to have differences of opinions due to our personal perspectives in my opinion. Right dear?



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