Signatures in a life application

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:52 am   Post subject: insurance  

(I posted this on another thread, as well)....I was looking at a website for 'my' Insurance Company, that I started my son's Life Insurance through. Was browsing through a section about Signatures, Beneficiaries, etc. I DID find a section pertaining to who needs to sign an application and who doesn't. It stated if the Insured is "18 years of age or older" they MUST sign a Life Insurance application.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:04 am   Post subject:   

You have to understand that there really are people out there who will say and do anything to get insurance or obtain a claims payment. Insurance companies prefer that people tell them the truth, but they know that a certain percentage do not.



There's no good reason for a life insurance company to deny coverage to a child who is living out of state on that basis alone, and most would simply require a paramed exam at the child's out-of-state residence so that it can be documented that someone saw the child (meaning living and breathing). But there's also no way to prevent someone from substituting an impostor, so insurers often take a guarded stance and underwrite conservatively. In the case you describe, I would believe that the decline was for the adult's misrepresentation rather than for the child's lack of insurability.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:00 pm   Post subject: insurance  

Ok.....I can understand that. I would think it would be some sort of a 'crime' (lack of a better word) to lie on a Life Insurance application.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:39 pm   Post subject:   

On the application, it's not so much of a crime unless the intent is to defraud. If it's untrue it can simply result in the policy being voided and no claim being paid.



On a claim form, however, it is absolutely a crime, and here in California, the mere act of signing a false claim form, with or without intent to defraud, is an additional offense punishable as perjury, which by itself is a felony worth 2,3, or 4 years in one of our fine, overcrowded state prisons. But at least there you can have your own "semi-private room", color TV, cell phone, and better health care than most others on the outside -- including heart, kidney, liver, and lung transplants -- at no cost to you. You're even covered for Workers' Compensation when you're stamping out license plates or washing underwear in the laundry or serving chow in the mess hall.



Almost better than being in the military. LOL



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:06 pm   Post subject: insurance  

My goodness, MAX!! You're very funny!! However.....only one thing with that. The Military doesn't make license plates...LOL I wouldn't want to go to prison..I like my freedom too much. MAX..have a question. When my son turns 18 years of age, does he have to sign the policy THEN?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 8:21 am   Post subject:   

No. As others have posted in different threads about what happens after a policy is issued (like now a smoker or a pilot), once the policy is in force, it is based on the original application information. Changes after that point in time are only an issue if one applies for new insurance not guaranteed by the policy or an attached rider.



In the case of a life policy on an adult with a child rider (covers a child under 18 at the time of application, and usually provides protection up to age 21 or 25), the child does not sign the original app, or anything else at or after age 18.



However, the rider will also offer them anywhere from 100% to 500% of the rider's face amount as a Guaranteed Issue individual policy. That they have to apply for, it is not automatic, because a premium has to be paid. Even though there may be no underwriting, the child -- now an adult -- has to sign the application for the new policy. They cannot be declined or rated substandard (unless already rated substandard as a child -- unusual, but not unheard of).



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:02 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
However, the rider will also offer them anywhere from 100% to 500% of the rider's face amount as a Guaranteed Issue individual policy.




Max, you are becoming pretty accomplished with giving incorrect answers. One can get much more than that. The kiddie policy that I usually sell will allow a child to buy up to 16x the original face amount with no medical questions. This is capped at $1,000,000.



Be careful of what you post. People will believe you.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:21 pm   Post subject: life insurance  

MAX.....I catcha!! Thanks. And 'for the record'. MAX..yes..I DO beleive you because you are giving alot of the same advice that the Rep was giving me over the phone!!

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:23 pm   Post subject:   

100% to 500% wasn't intended as an absolute limit. There are a couple of companies that I am aware of -- no need to mention them here -- that limit a child's conversion policy to the same face amount (1x) as the original rider in order to get the parents to buy a large policy on their infant (what infant or 6 year old truly needs a $100,000, $500,000, or $1,000,000 policy?). 5x the face amount in a conversion of a child rider is fairly common. Never meant to imply that it was the upper limit.



Obviously, 16x is very generous and allows the parents to purchase a much smaller rider ($62,500), saving them money in the process. Very commendable. It's always true that there will be no medical underwriting in such a conversion.



Some of those riders don't allow that large a conversion at one time, but as a series of increases over several years, usually at an increased cost of insurance with each increment, so it's also a little more expensive than converting all at one time. Then again, not many 18-26 year olds need $1,000,0000 at that time either and would be unlikely to convert for the full amount -- got to save money for the cars and parties, you know.



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:43 pm   Post subject:   

The large mutuals all allow much more than 500%. (Guardian, Northwestern, Mass Mutual, New York Life)



2x the face amount up to $125,000 with 7 or 8 purchase options seem to be about standard for these companies.



Ex. Joe buys a $50,000 policy for his kid. As an adult, his kid can purchase $100,000 8 different times.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:25 pm   Post subject: life insurance  

I don't have an account at any of the above Insurance companies. Some years ago, I was interested in 'Guardian'. However....they didn't seem to answer my questions and didn't seem to know what they were talking about. Just about every question, I had for them, was "I'm not sure..I'll get back to you."..and, NOPE they never did.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:42 am   Post subject: insurance  

Quote:
The company purchased policies on their employees without the employees consent
I don't know why I didn't respond to THIS quote. My EX husband worked at Walmart for over 15 years. Bottom line is:............the particular store he worked in, in the state of PA DID need my EX's consent for ANY kind of policy they 'covered' him with. I hope this answers your question......'NOT MAX' ( or whomever you go by now).
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:42 am   Post subject:   

SDCharger, how would you know that you are correct?



I am not saying that you are wrong. It may very well be the case that in PA, for the WalMart case, employees needed to sign something. However, if the "dead peasant" insurance was put in force on your husband, and he didn't need to sign something, how would you know?



What is 100% fact is that I'm correct that it is possible to buy insurance on somebody without their knowledge. It is rare and it is only done in unusual situations and it's typically for big bucks. Very few companies will do this. In fact, the only company that will do this in the U.S. that I know about is Petersen's.



I just want correct information posted. A board like this that let's incorrect information go unchallenged is useless.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:30 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
SDCharger, how would you know that you are correct?
Because..I know.
Quote:
It may very well be the case that in PA, for the WalMart case, employees needed to sign something
YEP...that's what I said.
Quote:
I just want correct information posted
Then I HIGHLY suggest that you post it CORRECTLY!! If you're NOT sure how to post something, why don't you ask MAX?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:10 pm   Post subject:   

Look how this thread started.



Quote:
An otherwise anonymous poster on another thread would like to insist that he can obtain $1,000,000 of life insurance on a proposed insured without the knowledge and consent of the proposed insured.




It took months of beating up on you to get you to see that I was correct about our beneficiary arguments. If you want to have it out with me again, you will once again come to the conclusion that I'm correct.



Petersen's International Underwriters of Valencia California will underwrite a policy in the State of California (Max's state) for over $1,000,000 without the knowledge and consent of the proposed insured. People, like Max, may try to explain the reasons for this, but nobody in the industry is going to come on here and post that I'm wrong.



Your buddy, Max, also admitted that California changed their law strictly due to the Walmart case.

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