What rights do we have?

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:17 pm   Post subject: What rights do we have?  

Dad passed. If mine and my siblings names are on an insurance policy. His estranged wifes name is first on the policy. Siblings and my self are all adults, Shouldn't we have a right to veiw the policy?

Also his sister forced him to change his bank accounts to her name. He did not want to but she insisted. What rights do we have. What can we do?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:05 am   Post subject:   

Hey Vmarshall, sorry to hear about your loss, buddy. Well, I'm not very sure about what can be done regarding the changed name in accounts. But, regarding the life insurance policy I guess you and the other siblings are named as contingent beneficiaries in the plan, where your father have kept his estranged wife as the primary one.



Are you guys still in touch with his wife? The life insurance company would try to contact the primary beneficiary first regarding the disbursement of the death benefits. If they fail to locate the primary beneficiary or if she has pre-deceased your father then you are next in the line.



~Jeremy

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:02 am   Post subject:   

I'm so very sorry about your loss.





It depends as Jeremy pointed out..if you were the contingent beneficiary you legally have nothing coming at all if the primary beneficiary is living.



If however all of you were named as primary, then that's a different song..



As to the bank accounts have you asked your aunt, 'hey didn't dad tell you to give ''some'' of that to his kids?'' worth a shot i guess.



Quote:
Shouldn't we have a right to veiw the policy?
No not unless you were primary beneficarys..

Quote:
Also his sister forced him to change his bank accounts to her name. He did not want to but she insisted. What rights do we have. What can we do?
This would be your word against her's...How could she 'force' him? Confused Are there other assets besides the policy? Like home, significant cash in the bank etc? You could go to probate over this if there is enough to 'fight' over...but since he was still legally married, his wife would be first on everything then you children..



Did you not have any conversations with your Daddy about any of this?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:36 am   Post subject:   

Well marshall



Really sorry to hear about your dad Sad



Quote:
His estranged wifes name is first on the policy. Siblings and my self are all adults, Shouldn't we have a right to veiw the policy?


If your dad's estranged wife is the primary beneficiary Marshall I'm afraid there is nothing you or anyone else can do. The proceeds of your dad's policy will naturally go to her and if she isn't alive either, will then come to you.



Lori, is it possible that if the primary beneficiary declines the proceeds, could it then go to the contingent beneficiaries? Just wondering


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:17 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori, is it possible that if the primary beneficiary declines the proceeds, could it then go to the contingent beneficiaries? Just wondering
I've never heard of that, but surely nothing would stop her from giving it to the kids..


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:33 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I've never heard of that, but surely nothing would stop her from giving it to the kids..






Ok then Marshall, one hope could be if your dad's estranged wife wants to give some of the money to you cause the chances of her declining the proceeds may be dim.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:14 am   Post subject: insurance  

That's my question, as well. How was your father "forced" to change his Insurance policy? He had a choice to change it or not. However......I believe the money SHOULD ( By All means!!) go to the children. Hopefully the estranged wife will do the right thing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 5:01 am   Post subject:   

Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, this is pretty much true:



Quote:
If your dad's estranged wife is the primary beneficiary Marshall I'm afraid there is nothing you or anyone else can do. The proceeds of your dad's policy will naturally go to her and if she isn't alive either, will then come to you.




The only thing that I would change would be this part:



Quote:
The proceeds of your dad's policy will naturally go to her and if she isn't alive either, will then come to you.




That depends on whether the policyowner named a contingent and possibly tertiary beneficiary. If the ex-wife is named as the primary, she gets the money. If not, it passes to the contingent, etc. If no named beneficiaries are alive to receive the proceeds, it will normally be paid to the estate of the insured. Unless named, unfortunately, it's unlikely that the kids will have any claim to the proceeds.



This has been addressed well in several other threads, and if I had a clue on how to find them and link them in, I would. Moderators???



Good luck with this, and keep us apprised.



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2009 8:30 pm   Post subject: life insurance  

It's kind of scary that if you DON'T have a 'Secondary' Beneficary ( providing the 'Primary' one is no longer living), that money can go to an Estate, etc. I'm dealing with the same issue. I have a Life Insurance policy through the Military. I do have a 'Primary' ( very good friend) and a 'Secondary' ( my son). My son is a minor. I'm just trying to decide what to do to 'add' another 'Secondary', in case something happens to me, and my son was STILL a Minor.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:51 am   Post subject:   

It may happen at times that the primary beneficiary may pre decease the policy holder. Therefore, one may add contingent beneficiaries to aviod the benefits to go to the estate, which will then become taxable.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:56 am   Post subject:   

We personally have a primary (tony or i) and two secondary (each kid share and share alike) then my sister as thrid benficary.



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:12 pm   Post subject: insurance  

LORI....I was talking to my sister about 'adding' her to be ANOTHER 'Secondary' to my policy (besides my son). She said "she din't understand the process of all of this" and she wanted me to talk to my brother-in-law about it. I tried to explain this the best way I knew how. It's just frustrating....I want to put someone's name I trust.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:41 pm   Post subject:   

Since we're on the topic of beneficiaries, there's another issue that could loom large on the estate taxation front, and I bet there's a few of you out there who are in this position.



Do you own the life insurance policy that covers your own life? Question In other words, are you both the owner and the insured under a contract? Question This is known as "first-party ownership" of a life insurance policy: when the policyowner and the insured are the same person. If you were to die having first-party ownership of a policy- your estate will be grossed-up by an amount equal to the life insurance death benefit paid. Even if you don't have a taxable estate because you "don't own enough stuff," without prior planning, this will have an adverse affect on your probate costs.



For instance- let's say all of your "stuff" if valued at the time of your death equalled $1,000,000. You also have first-party ownership of a life insurance policy with a death benefit of $500,000, and you die. Exclamation



Your estate, for taxation purposes, is worth $1,500,000. Thi8s will not be a taxable amount under current federal estate law, but I live in Oregon, and the state exepmption in Oregon is only $1,000,000. So, simply because I owned my own life insurance policy, I went from a non-taxable estate of $1mm to a taxable estate of $500k ($1.5 mm gross estate value- $1mm exemption = $500k taxable). That's gonna cost my estate around $50,000 in tax plus lawyers, probate and the rest of the stuff that goes along with dying! Shocked



There are ways around this goofy "incident of ownership" IRS rule. It's all in the planning!



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:24 pm   Post subject:   

INS this is nice illustration with the example.So in conclusion what we can say is that.

Govt exemption laws are applicable for the sum of life insurance money and the property valuation money.So insurance money can also be taxable if it goes beyond the limits of exemption



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:18 pm   Post subject:   

"It's kind of scary that if you DON'T have a 'Secondary' Beneficary ( providing the 'Primary' one is no longer living), that money can go to an Estate, etc. I'm dealing with the same issue. I have a Life Insurance policy through the Military. I do have a 'Primary' ( very good friend) and a 'Secondary' ( my son). My son is a minor. I'm just trying to decide what to do to 'add' another 'Secondary', in case something happens to me, and my son was STILL a Minor."



Why is this scary? If there wasn't a named beneficiary and the money didn't go to the estate, the insurance company would have no place to pay the money.



Why is the primary your friend? You don't have to answer. It's none of my business. It just seems like your kid would come before your friend.



Anyway, assuming that you want your friend to get your money if you die and your kid to get nothing, you have set it up properly. If your friend dies before you and then you die, the money will go to your son. Since your son is a minor, most likely the court will have your son's guardian set up an UTMA account for your child.



Typically the best thing to do for a minor is to have the secondary beneficiary be, "trustee under the will" or something similar. In other words, talk to your attorney and do some proper estate planning so that your wishes will be carried out.
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