26 Preferred Non-Tobacco rate class; $130.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:20 pm   Post subject:   

Grandaughter, I'm sorry you were offended, and certainly understand why, (I may have been too, and like you was nearly raised by my grandparents and I am EXTREMELY protective of my 98 yr old grandmother...so I'm with ya' girl! Wink ) ..however, I ''think'' Gary did not intend it personally, (meaning not your actual grandparents) but was playing devils advocate, meaning that he was making assumptions to try and reach a possible scenerio/conclusion of a fictious policy holder...I'm just sure personally insulting your beloved grandparents was not his intent (or better not be ! Wink )....Hang in there, and hopefully we can get the information you need...sorry, I'm a P&C adjuster and cannot offer any assistance, but there are many here that specialize in your issue. Please provide all information you can so they can get the ''full'' picture...again so sorry you were offended... Sad



Agents...Investigator, and Teachers....can we help here? What EXACTLY do you need to know (additional information) to help this poster....?????



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 11:36 am   Post subject:   

Exactly Lori.....



NOBODY even knows if Mark's original post was an actual case he's working on or just simply a made up story offered up for discussion.



The problem here, if we want to boil it all down, is the fact Grandpa has become UN-insurable and is STUCK with the last life insurance policy he bought.



No agent would leave a client with a failed insurer.

You would replace the old policy with a new company.

If you don't, some "other" agent will.



No cash value life insurance policy will perform when the MAXIMUM guaranteed cost of insurance rates are charged coupled with the absolute MINIMUM interest rate applied on premium designed using current cost of insurance and current interest rates from 1996.



Also to put some premium with rates classes together below are the monthly premiums for a male age 60 for a $100,000 policy using 20 year level term with a competitive insurer,



$80.67 Preferred Plus rate class;



$98.26 Preferred Non-Tobacco rate class;



$130.37 Standard Non-Tobacco rate class.



ALL premiums would be GUARANTEED not to increase for 20 years.



Does it make sense now why I keep saying SOMETHING IS WRONG for a $100,000 policy to implode after only 12 years on a male age 60 non-smoker with a monthly premium of $166.00?



...@ Mark, since you have the original illustration, please post it. Or e-mail it to me and I'll post it. Just black out any client identifing information.



cic7@juno.com



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:44 pm   Post subject:   

Thanks Lori, I appreciate the kind words.



For future reference; anytime I personally post something entitled Drama in Real Life, that's exactly what it is.



Quote:
NOBODY even knows if Mark's original post was an actual case he's working on or just simply a made up story offered up for discussion.




This is a real case and the person who contacted me regarding this matter was the Grandaughter.



In the past, I have posted several of my cases in here so that I can get ideas from all of you on how I should (or shouldn't) progress. I've found that discussing these types of cases with study groups, think tanks, forums, etc., helps me see things from an entirely different perspective. Because an insurance company's defense team will undoubtedly respond just as Gary has, his feedback was very important.



My purpose for posting these dramas is so that those in the community can see the business of insurance from another angle - one they may have never imagined. Insurance fraud (on the part of the insurer) is a huge problem in America - much larger than many people could ever imagine.



Gary, I'm sorry but, somewhere along the line I must have made a mistake: As per the original illustration issued by the United Services Life Insurance Company in February, 1996, the policy in question lapses in the 21st year (not the 12th). That is, if the target premium of $166.41 is paid.

Yes, as long as the insured pays the target premium, the policy will lapse the year after the guarantee expires.



Gary, I have not received permission from my client to post the illustration and will no do so until this has been done. I appreciate your input and feedback but I think I can handle it from here.



Mark


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:09 am   Post subject:   

...switching sides...because the Devil is always in the details...



That's a pathetic policy Grandpa was sold from the start and the agent knew or should have known it was a pathetic policy AND the agent knew or should have known Grandpa (and everyone one else including me) runs the RISK of becoming UN-insurable in the furture as well as interest rates could and HAVE drastically declined since 1996.



Let me apply Gary's time tested method for determining if any policy should be offered to any client.



First test: Would I sell my mother a life insurance policy knowing full well it would LAPSE in 21 years at current cost of insurance and current interest rates? No.



Second test: Would I want to be the beneficiary on a life insurace policy knowing full well it would LAPSE in 21 years at current cost of insurance and current interest rates? No.



If any agent can't answer a definitive YES to both questions above then don't offer that product to your clients.



Now if the company or the agent CANNOT produce a signed illustration showing the client knew $166 per month was not enough premium to support the policy beyond life expectancy, (age 95 or above) then I say Mark has a case.



I'm glad we got that 12 year thing cleared up because that is the issue that made no sense to me using worst case senario.



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:49 am   Post subject:   

Thanks Gary. I truly appreciate your feedback.



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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:25 pm   Post subject:   

Ya know Mark... IF I were an attorney representing Grandpa...I would hammer and hammer and hammer BOTH the agent and the insurance company for NOT making it abundantly clear to Grandpa under NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the life insurance policy he bought WILL lapse in the 21st year as per the original illustration based on 1996 current assumptions or sooner IF interest rates crash or the company goes belly up.



NOBODY with one drop of common sense would buy that policy if they new up front when they reach life expectancy (age 81) the policy would lapse based on best case senario.



They would either pay more premium back in 1996 or they would have bought less coverage back in 1996 to protect themselves.



Also, I would hammer the fact IF Grandpa actually had a clear understanding of those fact he could have bought a new policy with a stable insurer BEFORE he became insurable. That option is now forever off the table.



This was a fun thread that I think does a good job at looking at both sides of these problems.



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:58 am   Post subject:   

Thanks Gary. I often participate in focus groups, where we sit around and discuss cases very similar to this and consider the various options. I had a feeling that by submitting stories to the community, it would have the same effect. Only, in here, I'm getting feedback from people who have not spent huge amounts of time in the litigatory arena and offer opinions very similar to those of a potential jury.



I appreciate your suggestions and rest assured that my game plan is strinkingly similar to the one you outlined above.



For future reference; anytime I post a drama in real life here in the community, it is for the exact reason I did so this time. Your opinion is always welcome.



Thanks,

Mark



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:15 am   Post subject:   

Great lawyer in NC that would be all over this:



Wade Smith, Knows NC Insurance comissioner well.

Helped Launch John Edwards career, Defense Attourney Duke Lacrosse case, helped put Neifong in jail, helping a friend of mine who got ripped off by a major real estate brokerage.



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:49 pm   Post subject:   

Simple fact, so many people don't read the policy or the illustrations or they would know that these UL's are sometimes underfunded, but some are ok with it until this happens.

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