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 Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: Premise Liability? |
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| How do a code violation tie in with a premise liability? For example person a have a business person b got injured on the business due to that code violation. Person a took care of the violation. But later on down the line the owner was cited for the same violation at the same area. Could that prove the business owner negligent? |
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Johnathonb
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| Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Certainly. Don't know what else to say about that... I think it pretty much speaks for itself. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Could that prove the business owner negligent? |
Are you asking from the insurance pov? |
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ArindamSenIndies
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: compliance |
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Hi..
If you're telling me that person B got injured by violating the code...then I believe person A is not responsible in that case. But as you could see, that in the second case the person himself has violated the code, then I believe he is in the latter case. I have reasons to say that these codes are being laid in accordance with the state compliance guidelines & anyone overlooking them would be exposed to heavy penalties.
Hope you are careful to follow it yourself 
Carol |
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carol
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Hi. From an insurance and court pov. And no person b didnt violate a code person a did. Later on down the line(months) person a got cited for the same violation in the same area of his business.
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Could that prove the business owner negligent? |
You'd better believe it and I wouldn't want to be staring at that jury, while I tried to explain that one!
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Would that be from the insurance co. or courts pov?
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Would an insurance co want to settle a matter like this? Or would they take this to court? Is it true some companies would rather go to court no matter what because they hold on to the money longer and make money from that money?
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Would that be from the insurance co. or courts pov? |
BOTH!
| Quote: | | Would an insurance co want to settle a matter like this? |
More than likely yes....they never want to litigate something where there is (if there is) clear liability/negligence... | Quote: | | Is it true some companies would rather go to court no matter what because they hold on to the money longer and make money from that money? |
No in fact it's the opposite! The cost of litigation is very expensive, and we have all (adjusters) seen claims paid that really shouldn't be paid at all, because it is cheaper than fighting them...
Are you the owner/insured or the injured party? If you'd like to explain the violation and subsequent injury we may be able to give you more insight..
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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I have a business. It is a very very small one. Just something to make two ends meet. A person got injured at my business, at the entry of it. The railings wasnt stable. I was unaware of it until the person got injured. The railings was a building violation but i didnt recieve a citation for it by the code guy. I fix them so they can be stable. I didnt replace anything because i felt nothing needed to be replaced. Im not at all bitter about the person filing a claim on my insurance because that is the reason why i have it. The claim is still open because I guess this person is still under treatment. About 9months or so after the injury. Someone report me to the code guy about the entry. Come to find out i was in the same violation as before at the exact same entry area of my business. I replaced them now. But would they be used to prove negligent? I wasnt aware of it being out of code again. The photos of the entry when the person got injured prove it was out of code even when i didnt get a citation for it. Would my insurance co. settle something like this. A few people told me it is not something that would want to go to court. Because the plaintiff attorney would make me look very horrible in court and make it portray like im a bad person. I dont know how the insurance co works and how the process is and how they come to the choice of settling the case. But I know once i got report for it that would be public records for anyone to see. Im very sorry for any typos I'm in a hurry today. I want to thank everyone who took the time to answer my questions. Im very grateful for the help. Have a great day everyone.
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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Also it was a state code violation not local.
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Someone report me to the code guy about the entry. |
More than likely your injured party...  | Quote: | | I was unaware of it until the person got injured |
Let me make sure I understand you right...you didn't know anything was at all wrong...when someone got hurt you immediately fixed the problem..right? | Quote: | | Come to find out i was in the same violation as before at the exact same entry area of my business |
| Quote: | | The railings was a building violation but i didnt recieve a citation for it by the code guy |
Are you saying the code guy came out after the FIRST incident...told you it was a code violation, but did not issue you a ticket/violation? Or are you saying there was no code guy at all until you were reported the second time? If the guy came out the first time and told you it was a violation, but he was gonna give you a break just fix it...did he explain to you the proper way to fix it, to be within code? If so did you not do this? Or did you not see the code guy at all until the last time when you were issued a violation....I need some clarity on this code guy and how many time you talked with him etc..
| Quote: | | But would they be used to prove negligent? |
If they can prove that you were in violation, and continued in violation...it ain't gonna help ya'...but since no one else has been injured I don't think this will enter into it in any great degree....It wasn't stable whether in violation or not....you were negligent in not providing a safe railing....Now had another person gotten injured and the repairs where not made up to code....could be a problem...but don't see any real issued with this and the claim you have against your policy.. | Quote: | | Would my insurance co. settle something like this. A few people told me it is not something that would want to go to court. Because the plaintiff attorney would make me look very horrible in court and make it portray like im a bad person |
Yes, they will try and settle this, but because you were negligent in not providing a safe railing....again it could be brought up you were in code violation, and if they can provide evidence that you knew this and did nothing to remedy the situation...it wouldn't make you look like the most compassionate business owner...and if another person would've gotten hurt in the mean while could've spelled big trouble...but this in and of it's self won't make much difference if I'm understanding you correctly...Your carrier will try and protect you and your assets by settling this claim because, well you/they owe it...They will do their best to settle it without going to court...sounds like there is no dispute about liablity to me...so I doubt it would see the court house steps atleast not based on negligence...probably only would be there if the injured party is asking a crazy amount for a small injury...What is the injury? Treating for nine months? You're not a bad person by the way...you made repairs immediately right?
| Quote: | | I dont know how the insurance co works and how the process is and how they come to the choice of settling the case. |
The way they come to the choice of settling or denying claims is based (assuming policy is in good status) solely on negligence and liability....Did you do something wrong? Well, yeah, ya' kind of did...not about the code thing, but about having an unsafe entrance to a public place, (your business) that you either knew about and didn't fix, or should've known about....If you were negligent or legally liable in a claim that is when your company decides to pay the claim....They can't though, pay it till the injured party is ready to settle...Have you talked to the adjuster lately? Call them and ask how it's going... | Quote: | | Im very sorry for any typos I'm in a hurry today |
oh please, i'm a typo mess all the time...don't think about it! | Quote: | | Also it was a state code violation not local. |
Jonathan, what exactly was the code violation...have you now complied, and have you paid the fine?
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I didnt know it was bad when someone got hurt. I fixed it.
the code guy came out the second it when someone reported me. The first time he didnt come out. I fixed it after the person got injured.
Yes, they can prove i was in violation with the pictures the first time. The second time the code guy came out and cited me for the probably. WHich are public records. I didnt have to pay a fine unless i fixed it in a number of days they gave me. He issued me a report and send me a letter.
A friend told me a that if this would (I hope it doesnt) go to court. injured person attorney would say something like well you knew someone got injured there before and you are supposed to inspect a area like this why didnt you. It not going to look good i was in the same violation at the exact same area. Im not sure of the injures but i will give my adjuster a call. I hope this matter will be out of the way soon. It very stressful thinking about it sometimes.
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Johnathon
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| Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A friend told me a that if this would (I hope it doesnt) go to court. injured person attorney would say something like well you knew someone got injured there before and you are supposed to inspect a area like this why didnt you |
Well, friends don't always give the best advise, but most of the time their hearts are in the right place....very doubtfully this would ever got to court PERIOD.. | Quote: | | It not going to look good i was in the same violation at the exact same area. |
Ok, but here's the thing...all you knew was someone got hurt..you immediately fixed it right? You did not (at that time) know you were in any code violation until the code guy came out and gave you this violation, which you also immediately took care of ONCE YOU WERE AWARE OF IT...I see no issue here..other than you had an unsafe entrance which was also a code violation, however you didn't know it...now, had you been issued a violation, then did not correct it and another person got hurt...yep you'd' look like a heel....Jonathan, please don't worry about this any more...I'm just sure this code business will have no greater impact on this claim than the injury to begin with... | Quote: | | Im not sure of the injures but i will give my adjuster a call. I hope this matter will be out of the way soon. It very stressful thinking about it sometimes |
I know it is...but understand it is your insurance company/adjusters job to protect you by settling any claims that you become liable for....call your adjuster ask how the claim is going TELL them about the violation, and that it is all taken care of now, and that you did fix it right after the injury, then fixed it up to code immediately once you realized you were not within code.....Then let the adjuster do their job...If you want check in with the adjuster periodically to see if the claim is closed yet...But try and put this out of your mind....You sound like a 'stand up' guy....Don't let well intended folks worry you un-necessarily...
Let us know if we can be of further assistance, and what you find out about the claims progress.
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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