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 Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The accident involves 3 cars. I went through a green light at an intersection (traveling south) and was hit by the second car ( traveling west ) in the left rear quarter of my car. My car was then spun 90 degrees instantly, flipped over, and slid 30 feet on it's side in the same lane I was traveling in. The driver of the second car then hit the third car head on as it was stopped in the turn lane on the other side of the intersection. (My right side.)
The driver of the third car claims that before the crash she was stopped at the red light in her turn lane(facing east). So she establishes a red light for her and the guy that hit me. She then claims that as the light phased to green for her, I came through my light, which would , in her scenario, now be red for me.Then the crash occurred right in front of her, less than a second after the light change. |
This is something I find puzzling ...
You're basically saying the Witness said the second car was traveling West approaching a "Red" Traffic Light that had just changed to "Green" as it entered the intersection.
Based on that information:
If the East - West lanes just went to 'Green' as the West bound car entered the intersection, that would indicate that just before that change, the North - South lanes had to changed from Green to Yellow, stayed Yellow for several seconds, and then changed to Red for several more seconds before the East - West traffic light would turn Green.
[ I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time]
If what the driver of the third car said is correct........ then You ran the red light.
To me you would have had to not only saw your Green turn Yellow, and kept going... You would also have had to seen it turn Red at the end of the Yellow and kept going for there to be a collision.
No matter what anyone saw or thought they saw....... the timing of the lights is what it is. And the elapsed timing of that sequence is much much more than "less than a second"
| Quote: | | She also said they accept the testimony of the 3rd driver as an independent witness because she has nothing to gain from favoring either party to the crash. I'm still scratching my head over that comment as I don't see how that makes everything this witness says true |
I do agree with your above comment... One has to wonder.... _what_ about someone not having an potential financial gain makes their statement more accurate??
There are millions and millions of people out there making *clueless* statements. Geeeeeeeeesssssssss, every now and then I'm one of them. Not intentionally, but we _All_ make mistakes and have errors in judgment & observation abilities.
Off topic:
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That's my 2˘ worth for now. ( maybe ± a couple ˘ ) 
FK, |
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FK
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:35 pm Post subject: Accident |
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Hi Trench,
“principally at fault” was quoted from the letter I received from my carrier. That's hoe they described it. The same letter also said I had 30 days to request a review of the determination and I did. There was no percentage of fault assigned in that letter. I did not understand there was a distinction between assigning fault and accepting liability. Now that I do I will ask. The adjuster did say she was planning to approach the other party and see if they would settle for the policy limits. So does that mean they are accepting liability or is she just doing her job?
The police report is another story. All the information I received from the police report at this point I received from my adjuster. The accident happened in a city where it takes up to 3 months to generate a report. In my case it took 2 ˝ months. I don't have the report myself because it was probably lost in the mail as we moved right after the accident from that city to another state. I was also away on business for 5 weeks during this period and did not realize I had no copy of it until I returned and collected my mail. I have requested another copy and I expect to have it shortly. When it arrives I will gladly answer your questions about it to the best of my ability.
What I can say is that it's been more than a month since the report came out and I have not been cited. I'm hopeful that means I won't be cited for the red light violation but I'm guessing that's not a certainty. There also are no witnesses who are independent of the accident. There were many people on the scene that day but sadly no one stayed around to offer up an outside version of the accident.
Perhaps I was too hasty in asserting my carrier had not determined the points of impact. I guess I don't know this for sure but I will confirm it when I speak with my carrier again. As I said earlier, that assumption was based on the fact that my adjuster could not tell me anything about the accident without referring to the police report and that my questions about the witness's statement seemed to surprise her.
I just assumed all witness statements were examined for validity against the physical evidence the accident presented. Isn't that what an investigation is?
It's funny you should ask about other adjusters. Early on I had fielded calls from the adjuster from the carrier of the guy who hit me asking me and my wife for a statement. This adjuster claimed she had no statement from her client or anyone else. My adjuster advised me not to give a statement to them and she told me she would have the other adjuster stop calling me.
I have not heard anything to date from the 3rd driver's insurance company but I'm not sure I should have. This driver did however give a statement to my adjuster about 5 weeks after the accident. My adjuster relayed the contents of that statement to me from memory in a phone call and that's when I first heard that I was being accused of running the red light. I pressed the adjuster for more information on the timing of when this witness said I crossed the line of the intersection and she reiterated she did not have the statement in front of her and said she would get back to me with that information. She assured me the company would vigorously investigate this new information. She never did get back to me and owing to a number of other factors we never really talked until after the police report arrived.
After the police report came out I received another letter from the second driver's company stating that they had concluded their investigation. They said ( and I'm paraphrasing here) their investigation indicates that damages occurred because driver # 1 (me) or driver # 2 (their client) ran the red light but because neither myself nor driver # 3 gave them a statement, they had no reason to not believe their client. They said if I provided them with a statement they may re-evaluate their decision.
Thanks again |
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plb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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FK,
You said "If what the driver of the third car said is correct........ then You ran the red light. "
That is true if what she said is correct. I maintain it is not but I had not wanted to debate who is right or wrong.
I said that if you accept the 3rd drivers statement as true, you have to accept the corollaries.
I'll lay them out here with what the drivers say in their statements. I'm driver #1, the guy that hit me #2 and the witness #3.
Light timing N-S- 25 sec green, 5 second yellow, 60 sec red.
Light timing E-W- 55 sec green, 5 second yellow, 30 sec red.
#3 - says driver # 1 crossed red light line as her light phased to green.
That means that driver # 1 had a 5 second yellow light after his green expired then he crossed anintersection against a red light.
Driver # 1 says he had a green light the entire time, never a yellow or red.
It also means driver #2 had faced a 30 second red light
at the same time. Driver number two does not mention seeing a red light in his statement. Says his light was always green as well.
Circumstances indicate driver # 2 hit driver # 1 at a rate of speed inconsistent with slowing or stopping for a standing red light.
Would you conclude from these circumstances that the timing of #1 entering the intersection is correct given
the many contradictions in all the statements?
That's my issue,
Thanks, |
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plb
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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geeeze..all this AND a limits issue? oh my... 
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Wow  I am wondering what, if any information your adjuster gave to your carrier. Not much it would seem. There seemed to be a lot going on in your accident, and I can only wonder how busy I may have been in that situation. I probably am going to assume that this adjuster never spoke with the investigating officer (not that she had to), but she seems to be (based on your account) relying soley on the police report-which I might add she has copy of (maybe  ) and you could ask her for it, that is if there was nothing to question. Furthermore, her investigation would have been able to determine who exactly was at fault. And she would tell you, I always do. She would have had to, unless instructed not, speak to all availible witnesses to get statements-written or recorded.
| Quote: | | I just assumed all witness statements were examined for validity against the physical evidence the accident presented. Isn't that what an investigation is? |
Yep, pretty much.
And for her to tell you not to speak to others (adjusters) is not her call. |
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Trench
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:34 am Post subject: Accident |
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Hi Trench, Thanks very much for your reply. Talking about this with you and other people here has been very helpful to me in determining a course of action,
Thanks again
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: Accident |
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| Trench, the above guest reply was from me. I guess I wasn't logged in when I posted, Thanks |
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plb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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If she told you not to speak to the opposing adjuster...this is a very rare occurance with adjusters...I can only assume, that she is wanting to get this settled within your limits and doesn't want to mess that up (for you) in any way...
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Personally, I have never heard of an adjuster advising their insured not to speak to the other party's adjuster. That's just common place in the world of claims. IMO, her not adding your additional comments/info to her report would seem to me not looking after your best interest-which she was hired to do. However, it would seem to me that since they have not settled, she maybe working to include this "new" information. If I were you, I would really press her on this if you feel strongly that it would aid in a decision. If you get no where, you can always contact a supervisor. |
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Trench
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| Posted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I have never heard of an adjuster advising their insured not to speak to the other party's adjuster |
Neither have I in fact it's the opposite...makes me wonder a little..in fact, were I the OP I'd ask, 'why'? Shouldn't the other carrier get the OP's version of events? (of course )...in fact I'd be surprised if the other carrier would even entertain any liability discussions without it. (I sure wouldn't)
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Me neither  |
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Trench
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 2:29 am Post subject: Accident |
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Trench,
"I would really press her on this if you feel strongly that it would aid in a decision. If you get no where, you can always contact a supervisor."
This is exactly what I plan to do as I do feel strongly about it. All I can do at this point is make myself heard.
Thanks |
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plb
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:58 am Post subject: Accident |
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Lori, Trench:
Early on in this ordeal- the first week actually- a family friend put me in touch with an auto claims adjuster who hails from your neck of the woods in the lovely mid-west. I was in a quandary over weather to talk to the "OP" adjuster or not because I had read in a few places ( AKA: lawyer websites) it was not recommended.
Interestingly enough, her advice was to give the statement to them and she too seemed puzzled anyone would do otherwise. I had no problem giving a statement to anyone who needed it. It didn't seem like a major issue to me.
Now my wife was furious that I would even consider giving a statement to an adjuster whose own client had not yet given a statement. I remember talking to the OP adjuster at least ten days after the accident and she said she had no statement from her client and therefore did not know what had happened in the accident outside of the obvious of who had hit who. I don't think she was lying but who knows.
Anyway, I went through this limbo period for the first ten days or so after the accident where I was assigned two temporary adjusters before I landed with the one I have now. When I talked to my present adjuster for the first time I asked if I should give a statement to the other party and she just said I wouldn't have to talk them and that she would take care of it. It wasn't like she imposed a gag order or anything. My impression was that it had more to do with the fact that the guy that hit me had secured legal representation ten minutes after the last hubcap stopped spinning.
Is it odd though that the adjuster from the 3rd party never called and asked for a statement from me? Would he have received info from my adjuster without contacting me? Is he just sitting and waiting for the dust to clear? It would seem his carrier's interests are served by someone being declared at fault otherwise he picks up the tab for his client correct?
Is it odd that the 3rd party gave a statement to my carrier and not to the carrier of the guy that hit me? Why would she talk to one and not the other?
Take care |
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plb
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now my wife was furious that I would even consider giving a statement to an adjuster whose own client had not yet given a statement. |
It's not like we are attorneys. We are fact gatherers. Even though we represent an insured/claimant, our job is to get the facts no matter the outcome. There have been countless times that I spoke with the claimant before the insured. And countless times were the statement of the insured was a complete fable.
| Quote: | | My impression was that it had more to do with the fact that the guy that hit me had secured legal representation ten minutes after the last hubcap stopped spinning. |
Could be. When there is an attorney involved, all communication is stopped with the individual.
| Quote: | | Is it odd that the 3rd party gave a statement to my carrier and not to the carrier of the guy that hit me? Why would she talk to one and not the other? |
No. Unless the insurance company requests the adjuster to take a statement. However, the adjuster during his investigation may see the need to get the statement, but risks not getting paid for it if the carrier is not interested or feels it not important or relevant. Or the inside adjuster of the insurance company may have already taken a statement.
| Quote: | | Would he have received info from my adjuster without contacting me |
Possibly, but I rarely ever speak to the other adjuster much less compare notes. Again, if the inside adjuster has obtained a statement, that info may have been passed to the adjuster in the field. |
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Trench
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| Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:45 pm Post subject: Accident |
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Trench,
Thanks for clearing that up for me. I do know from letters from the 2nd party carrier that they wanted a statement from the 3rd party and never got it.
Take care |
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plb
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