by mkatzpa » Fri Jan 29, 2010 11:39 pm
Hi -I'm in Florida, have EXTNDED PIP Coverage with $100,000 limit - The PIP carrier settled my claim for meds. and wage loss for a total of about $86,000 + attorney's fees...The BI claim against the tortfeasor is still open and in litigation; they contend they are entitled to a set-off of the entire $86,000 for my BI claim; however, the PIP does not address the BI/pain & suffering, only the medical & wage loss claims...The third-party carrier is trying to settle for peanuts because they're claiming the set-off...What's what?
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 05:19 am Post Subject:
Hi -I'm in Florida, have EXTNDED PIP Coverage with $100,000 limit - The PIP carrier settled my claim for meds. and wage loss for a total of about $86,000 + attorney's fees
Okay, first... HUH?FL PIP is paid by law... 1) your carrier would not pay attorneys fees on top of the payment for medical bills. So your attorney took 33% of the $86,000 paid under law for your medical expenses? Why? The carrier was obligated by law to pay all of those bills... no attorney was needed for this and I've _never_ heard of an attorney taking a cut of the PIP payment. Perhaps you are confused.
They are entitled to an offset paid by the PIP carrier. This is a matter of law. It's not why the claim is in litigation.
Here is the question I always ask someone in your position... your going to paying your attorney 33% of the BI settlement which I'm betting amounts to 10s of thousands of dollars yet you don't ask him/her to explain these things? Again, _you_ are _paying_ an attorney for this type of information.
But yes, in FL the BI carrier takes an offset for what was paid under PIP. This does not affect you as the total amount (or actually the total treatment and injury) is considered when determining the BI settlement.
For example... let's just use dollar amount to make this easy but it's really the injury and treatment that would be considered....
Lets say you had $100,000 in treatment. The BI carrier looks at this $100,000 and determines that your claim is worth $200,000. Well, you actually only have $100,000 in medical expenses since your carrier paid this under PIP. So the BI carrier takes this $200,000, subtracts that $100,000 already paid and offers you $100,000. It's all the same to you as your medical bills have already been reduced by the $100,000 paid by PIP.
The _real_ way to look at this is your have an injury. Your PIP carrier pays $100,000 toward your $100,000 in medical bills. The BI carrier look at your injury and determines that it's worth $200,000. They _then_ (that is the important part) take a $100,000 offset on their offer because this is what your PIP carrier paid and you are offered $100,000. They settlement is used to pay your medical expense and compensate you for pain and suffering. Well, you don't care about the $100,000 off set as you no longer need to spend any of that settlement to address those medical bills. If those bills had not been paid then the offer would have been $200,000 and you'd have to take $100,000 of that and pay the bills. Same out come.
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 11:25 am Post Subject: PIP Coverage
The insurance company had already made a settlement. Here you might have to take some legal steps to come to an agreement.
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 04:27 pm Post Subject:
[quote]The insurance company had already made a settlement.[/quote
The BI claim against the tortfeasor is still open and in litigation
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 06:08 pm Post Subject:
Thx. for your note - I understand a lot of this stuff...I don't believe YOU understand PIP AND set-off (economic damages) vs. the non-economic portion of a BI claim, i.e., Pain & Suffering.
In response to your question as to why I don't ask attorney, I work with attys. EVERY day, some knowledgable. some not...
THIS issue of set-off is confusing for all - found case law that probably supports MY contention that set-off does not apply in this case, i.e., re: economic damages against my non-economic damages...
Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2010 06:29 pm Post Subject:
Thx. for your note - I understand a lot of this stuff...I don't believe YOU understand PIP AND set-off (economic damages) vs. the non-economic portion of a BI claim, i.e., Pain & Suffering.
Possible... but doubtful. I handled claims in Florida for about 17 years. Settled injury claims most ever day. That amounts to a few thousand claims I dealt with involving this issue.Personally, if I was paying an attorney 33% of my settlement, I'd pick one that was knowledgeable.... especially with something as straight forward as this. Or at least one that knows the answer to this question. My only point is that people pay attorneys _good_ money out of _their own_ pockets but don't seem to think they know what they are doing. When I'm paying _anyone_ for their services... no matter what it is, I'd expect them to know what they are doing.
i.e., re: economic damages against my non-economic damages
I think there is still some misunderstanding.... the set off does not apply at all to non-economical losses... that is what I was pointing out. The over-all injury is considered when making the injury settlement. Perhaps I should not have mentioned looking at the dollar amount when making this offer. It's better to say that BI offers are not made based on the cost of the treatment, rather the injury, treatment, location, person's age, etc, instead. But of course the cost of the medical treatment _is_ going to factor into everyone's mind. The point in the off-set is only that the person is not going to get paid twice for the actual medical bills. If PIP has paid them already then the BI carrier does need to consider paying for them again within the BI settlement. For example... lets say a person's medical expense were $10,000. I offer to settle for $20,000. The attorney might come back and tell me that this only leave the person $10,000 as their meds are $10,000. I point out that my offer is already considering the PIP off-set of $10,000, meaning those $10,000 in meds were already paid under PIP so my offer of $20,000 goes right into the injured person's pocket and does not need to go toward any medical bills.FL allows a PIP off-set as PIP is non-recoverable in FL (as all PIP should be).
From your last post it's become more clear that your question may be, do they take the offset and _then_ consider what should be paid to me for my pain and suffering? My answer is no... because that is just the money aspect of the claim. The entire _injury_ is considered, the offer is made and as long as all parties know that the PIP offset won't then reduce the offer, everything is fine.
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 03:07 pm Post Subject: pip
does pip offset go to the insurance company if i do not carry an auto policy but owned the auto. and where would i find the statute
Add your comment