Minnesota Auto Accident....Insurance company issues

by Awoosky » Sun Sep 19, 2010 07:11 am

Hi.
I was away on business about 2 weeks ago and my wife got in an accident with our 09 Focus. It was immediately towed to a body shop near the scene and sat for 1 night. My wife called our insurance company and they "strongly" recommended that she have the car towed to THEIR approved body shop, insisting it would be "faster and easier for her". She then had the car towed to our insurance company's body shop. I, then, get a call from that body shop and was told I have to sign an authorization for them to estimate my vehicle. The next day I went to the shop because I was back in town and signed the authorization thinking that I was authorizing them to estimate the repairs on my vehicle....

Needless to say, I was wrong. I was told that I would have an estimate in a couple days. So I called the shop and the adjuster 2 days later and was told that my estimate wasn't ready yet. I got a call 2 hours later from the adjuster and was told that my estimate would be finalized the following day, to which I replied that before ANY work is done to the vehicle I wanted to see the itemized estimate and look at my options, to which the adjuster assured me that NOTHING would be done to my car until I approved. The following day I got a call again from the adjuster AND the body shop CSM and I clearly affirmed that I wanted nothing done to the car until I returned from out-of-state and had seen the vehicle and the itemized estimate and looked at my options.

SO, then the next day I got a call from a somebody from the body shop and he told me that he had just been told to stop working on my vehicle and that he already had replaced some parts, AND was wondering why I didn't want the vehicle repaired right away. I explained to him that because my wife and I have never had a severely damaged vehicle fixed at a body shop or been in a claim situation we wanted to make sure our vehicle is repaired properly.... He just started spouting about how his shop "guarantees their repairs for life"... Their, or anybody's repairs should last the life of the vehicle, especially considering it's not even 2 years old and half of the car is plastic.

I'm starting to have a sour taste in my mouth over this insurance approved/suggested body shop that is replacing parts on my car without my consent, and being and shady overall about what is happening with my vehicle.

I told the adjuster and the body shop CSM that depending on what I find out when I see the estimate I will be wanting to get a second opinion about the damage to my vehicle.

Secondly, the repairs to my vehicle, at the last tally, are exceding 6,000 dollars, which is about roughly 60% of the value of the vehicle and I am wondering whether or not this "approved" shop is not taking my best interest into mind and doing what is right with the vehicle. Like if the vehicle is close to being totaled and the estimate is being "cooked" to make it cheaper so that the car doesn't have to be totaled. If my vehicle is going to be repaired I want it to be done properly, not just "good enough" to get it out of the door for less than the salvage percentage, which would be about $7k.

My questions are:
Why would my car be repaired without my consent?

Why was my wife pressured into having the car taken to a particular shop?

Why did I have to sign an authorization to have my car estimated?

What are my rights as to having the vehicle taken elsewhere to have the repairs estimated by a shop that doesn't have a vested interest with my insurance company, such as towing charges and otherwise?

What recourse do I have against the repairs that have supposedly already been performed to my vehicle in regards to getting other estimates?

What action should I take to be reimbursed for having my car towed to the first body shop immediately following the accident due to it not running?

If my car has already been disassembled to estimate will it be reassembled to be towed elsewhere?

Will my car have a salvaged title if my vehicle is in fact found to have damages in excess of 70% of it's value, which is the rule in my state?

What does the insurance company use to determine the value of my car, if in fact it is found to be totaled or close to it?

I may have other questions later, but this is what I have thought of so far.

Thanks a lot!

Total Comments: 8

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 12:36 pm Post Subject:

Why . . . Why . . . Why . . . What . . . What . . . If . . . Will . . . What



Slow down! You are going way overboard here. First off, we'll assume that your wife was at fault for the collision, since you didn't say anything to the contrary. And you do state you've never been involved in an auto claim, so your panic is slightly justified.

But if you were so anxious to begin with, why did you sign any papers without fully understanding what you were signing? Normally, no one needs to sign anything in order to have a repair estimate made. Just need to give them your name, address, and telephone number so they can put it on the paperwork.

If you signed anything, I'm guessing you signed a repair authorization subject only to the adjuster's estimate (or agreement with the shop's estimate) of the total repairs. Since your insurance company is going to agree with his estimate, or he's going to agree with theirs, your only responsibility will be the deductible. Regardless, repairs cannot be done, or even started, lawfully without your consent. If a mechanic does so, he's in a position to have to eat what he put into the vehicle. But, as I believe, you signed a repair authorization, not an OK to perform an estimate. Failure to read and understand gets people in trouble all the time. But you're not in trouble here.

No one "pressured" your wife to have the car taken anywhere. It is quite common for insurantilce companies to recommend certain body shops because they have a history of performing satisfactory repairs and/or have met other criteria for quality and customer satisfaction. If you or she did not want the vehicle moved until you returned from out of town, why did anyone not say, "Can we wait until I/my husband gets back in town first?" Failure to exercise one's rights gets people into trouble. But you're not in trouble here.

Normally, you can take your car anywhere you want to obtain an estimate of repairs. If you signed a repair authorization, however, at this point it may be too late to do that, especially since repairs are, apparently, already underway. Failure to do things in the proper order can get people in trouble. But you're not in trouble here -- your options may be limited or over with, that's all.

Towing to the first location following the collision will either be paid for by your auto club membership or your collision coverage. Did your wife have any out of pocket expense for that at the time? If it was paid for via the auto club membership, there's nothing to be reimbursed for -- if you were even reimbursed, that money would belong to the auto club under the concept of subrogation -- you can't be indemnified twice for the same event.

The answer to the "if" question is probably a NO. You are no longer in a position to have this done if you signed a repair authorization. And no, you won't have a salvage title if your car is totaled, because you won't have a car. Not unless you and the insurance company work out an arrangement to buy the vehicle from them, have the car repaired at your expense, and choose to keep it. Then you would have a salvage title.

Vehicle values are often determined on the basis of NADA data, along with "comps" of similar vehicles, usually in the same general area as where you live -- in similar fashion as real estate appraisals.

When your insurance company "encourages" you to use their repair shop, they are on the hook for the quality of repair parts used and workmanship in restoring your vehicle to its pre-collision status. Obviously, you'll always know that your car was repaired, but it might just come out looking, and feeling showroom new (and if you're interested, you can buy "new car smell" perfume for the inside). If the repairs are ever found to be faulty, the insurance company will pay to make them right -- at no additional out of pocket expense to you.

and I am wondering



Your best interests are being served by your insurance company. They are putting their reputation and money on the line by recommending a repair shop to you. If they didn't care about you and your wife, they would have said, "Just take it somewhere and get an estimate and we'll see if we think it's fair, if not we'll tell you to try some other place, and keep doing that until you find the shop with lowest price, since that's what will save us the most money."

No one is going to take advantage of anyone in this situation. The repair shop is not going to do anything to damage the relationship it has with the insurance company, risking the loss of all future work that would be sent its way. No inflated claims, no unnecessary repairs. The question from the shop about why you would want them to stop the work at this point is entirely appropriate. I would think you'd want the car repaired as soon as possible.

Although possible as more work is done, it's unlikely that your vehicle will be totaled. That would have already happened by now in the vast majority of claims similar to yours.

So just calm down! Chill out! Maybe watch some boring golf tournament this afternoon on TV to calm your nerves (no offense to the golfers among us -- I'm playing in a miniature golf tourney this afternoon myself), have something cool and refreshing to drink (I'll be having a soda and ice cream -- included in my $8.50 green fees), and worry about more important things in life.

Like learning to read things before you sign or accept them. Your insurance policies (life, health, homeowners, and auto) might be a good place to start.

Posted: Sun Sep 19, 2010 03:00 pm Post Subject:

Thanks a lot.

I still have a strange feeling about that body shop. I only saw the car when I returned from business last Saturday, so I have a rough idea of the damage, but i still want to make sure that the vehicle is being repaired properly. I know that a lot of people don't know the difference between a good quality repair and a "good enough" repair, but when I get the car back and it's not going straight down the road, or the doors or hood don't quite shut right I will be kicking myself for not getting a second, or third opinion on the vehicle.

About the "authorization" I signed. I shouldn't have been so trusting of the csm at the body shop that told me I was just signing to have them estimate the car and, at that time, I was told that I would get a call before ANY repairs were started. This was before I called several times and told the adjuster, and 2 different csm's that I didn't want anything done to the car until I received an itemized list of repairs, which I haven't seen yet. Honestly, my signature means nothing when I have verbally stated to 3 different people that no repairs be done until I come in and verify them.

Having been in the automotive industry for a decade I know the ins and outs of repair shops, and I know that certain places are more reputable and treat their customers better than others. Respecting the wishes of your customer, signature on a seemingly meaningless piece of paper or not, is one of the first signs that that particular shop is not as reputable as they may seem. This estimation stuff works much the same way as diagnosis on my end of the vehicle. If someone brings their car in with a coolant leak, authorizes the diagnosis, and leaves their vehicle in my hands, when I find out that their radiator is leaking, I don't just go ahead and replace the radiator without the consent of the customer, AND if the customer decides that they want to take their vehicle elsewhere to have the repairs done, or get another opinion on their vehicle it is their right to, AND I have to re-assemble the car for them so that it can be driven away, regardless of how badly I wanted to do the repair or how much I had disassembled the car in the hopes of repairing it. I feel just like the person that brought their car in for diagnosis, to find out later that repairs that they did not authorize have been performed. This is how I feel about this body shop.

I really am just having some strong feelings that I shouldn't just take the word of this place and my insurance company and just leave my car there. Yes, I know better than to just sign a piece of paper, I know better now anyway, and I know better than to be taken advantage of by "all-knowing" auto repair shops; I've been inside them for a decade, I know how they work. The Saturn dealership I worked at, before they closed, had a relationship with this chain too, and they got spiffs for recommending windshields to people.

Posted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 04:12 am Post Subject:

You are being "pressured" to take it to a "preferred body shop" as this saves the insurance company money... period. The insurance company then does not need to pay $100 to an appraiser to inspect your vehicle. The insurance then also knows that the body shop will write the estimate how the insurance company wants it written (after market parts, salvage parts, etc). The insurance company also has more control over the shop as if the shop does not agree with the insurance company, the insurance company can simply drop them from their list.

With that said, I can say I've asked people if they want to use preferred shops, they say "no way" and then they end up telling me the name of a shop that is on the preferred list anyway. These are _not_ fly by night companies. They are _well known_ repair centers that do very good work. 99.9% of the shops in an area _want_ to be a preferred shop so the insurance companies can pick and choose the best.

With _that_ said... a preferred shop is only as good as the insurance companies system. Many times the insurance companies don't monitor them in anyway. So the shops just go wild.

The other problem is one that you bring up... it's a system. It's set up to work one way, with people who are just following the system. The initial people who take the claim reports are taught to push the preferred shops. In many cases they get rewards for refereed the most people. If not this, they do need to at least offer preferred shops and are held accountable if their numbers are low. Management is just looking at numbers. It's never a question of what someone wants or does not want or why... it's just numbers on paper. When the shop gets an assignment it's just another referral. I doubt your concerns were passed onto the shop. They are in the routine of getting an assignment and starting work asap Which is a good thing... it's the reason why people like preferred shops. Your request just got ignored... not a good thing... but it's only because it did not fit into their system of getting people's vehicle's repaired asap.

A _good_ shop is going to have an employee who listens to the customer and understands what they want. Obviously, they dropped the ball (no... they never even had it to start with) at this preferred shop.

Feel free to have a heart to heart talk with the adjuster and/or body shop manager. Let them know _clearly_ what you want and what you expect. Otherwise you run the risk of just having them go through the routine.

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 02:56 am Post Subject:

Insurance preferred providers are not necessarily the best available shops in an area. Not all shops qualify nor do all shops desire to be part of an insurance network. By the same token all shops that are not perferred providers are not necessarily the best shops in an area either.

However that being said, I can assure you when it comes to your desires, your wishes, and your requirements, nearly all preferred provider shops will side with an insurer when it comes to the bottom line and to who's allegiance they serve. When placed in a position of disagreement and philosophy of repair, those selected shops are required to serve at the behest of the insurer's and abide by contracts and agreements that YOU "the public and policyholder" will never see and could possibly be contrary to some state's unfair claims practices acts. Quite simply preferred providers are, by design, cost savings apparatus's designed to preserve the company's funds at your expense providing you the least amount necessary to attempt to place you in the position you were in prior to the loss.

As an independent shop owner, I can serve as an advocate on the consumer's behalf though I can not legally negotiate your claim. I can take an assignment of proceeds and sue your insurer or a third party insurer for the funds necessary to restore your vehicle to pre loss condition with our contract of repair which is primary. Since insurers do not repair cars and pay for repairs, their guarantees and promises are only as good as the shops they select for their network. Another reason there are usually more than one or two preferred providers in some areas are to the insurers' exclusive benefit. Some state unfair claims practices codes of regulations state that if an insurer prepares an estimate that the amount that they base payment of the loss on, must be sufficient or for an amount necessary to restore your property to preloss condition. They must also be able to name a shop that will perform the repairs for that amount, so they must form alliances with shops that are willing to repair cars for an amount that insurers claim they have a contractual right to base payment for their losses on. Kind of sounds like the fox guarding the hen house doesn't it?

Two things. One; how to you know that an insurer will prepare an estimate for the amount necessary? They can't and the invoice of repairs is the only legal way to determine the actual cost of repairs. Until there is a final invoice, an insurer is only paying an amount they believe will be necessary to fulfill their contract or policy requirements or an amount necessary to settle a loss to a third party claimant on behalf of their insured.
Secondly, how many shops do you think would remain on these programs if they failed to agree with insurers on the amount necessary based on insurer requirements (who are not repair experts) and the experts of repair are relying on those that do not repair cars but merely pay for those repairs on skewed data that is provided to insurers based on the sales pitch of assuring insurers that their data programs will save insurers money?

I have been in the presence of direct repair shop managers who have boldly told the vehicle owners, " I don't care what you want, I get paid by the insurer and that is who I am working for". Of course not all direct repair shops hold that view, but those alliances do create the situation for that to occur.

The best method of selecting a shop is to query your relatives, friends, co-workers, better business bureaul in some cases and make an educated decision on who you feel will best serve your needs and requirements and be your advocate for all that is owed to you.
,

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 02:36 pm Post Subject:

but when I get the car back and it's not going straight down the road, or the doors or hood don't quite shut right I will be kicking myself for not getting a second, or third opinion on the vehicle.



Well, I stiil think you are going over top at this point. Second and third "opinions" don't mean better or worse repairs. You don't even have the vehicle back and you're making yourself sick with all these "What ifs" running through your mind.

So I'll throw another one in your direction: What if you get the car back and it actually looks showroom new, drives perfectly straight all by itself, and the doors don't even make the slightest sound when opening or closing them?

How much aggravation are you causing yourself over this? It's not much different than some of the posts we see where people are SURE the insurance company is going to screw them . . . and they want to know if they should hire an attorney before they've even filed a claim. You haven't even given the repair shop the benefit of the doubt.

Did things happen in a way you were not expecting? Obviously they did. But go with the flow at this point. It's not worth a heart attack. We're discussing a car -- a box on wheels that gets you around town. Come on, now, it's a Ford Focus for crying out loud, not a Mercedes Benz or a Maserati. I'll bet the hood opens and closes better after the repairs are done (how many times has it even been opened in two years?).

When the insurance company sends you to their "preferred" shop, it guarantees the workmanship. If something is not to your satisfaction and it is due to less-than-industry standards of workmanship, you have the right to demand its repair. There are other consumer protections for you as well outside of your insurance policy. Repair shops have to be licensed by the state, and they are responsible to the state for their work, too.

So, again, stop working on your ulcer and just wait until everything is done. In all of this, you have never said anything about having a face-to-face discussion with anyone at the repair shop. As tcope stated, have a calm discussion with the person who is in charge or who owns the shop and get all your concerns out in the open.

I don't know what it means when you say, "Having been in the automotive industry for a decade I know the ins and outs of repair shops . . . ." Because your actions and your comments are out of character with that statement. If you really knew the "ins and outs", you would have been more careful when it came to signing whatever paperwork you signed and taken the time to read it.

"I shouldn't have been so trusting . . . ." Maybe, maybe not. How long would it have taken to read the document before signing it? Two minutes? I'm guessing that you signed it because your wife wanted the car back as quickly as possible ("Happy wife, happy life"). And, most likely, it either said "REPAIR ESTIMATE" or "REPAIR AUTHORIZATION" in big letters across the top of the form.

If it said "ESTIMATE" and repairs were started without your consent, then you can file a complaint with the Bureau of Automotive Repairs (or whatever the consumer protection agency's name is). If it said "AUTHORIZATION", the shop is doing what you have allowed them to do.

Respecting the wishes of your customer, signature on a seemingly meaningless piece of paper or not, is one of the first signs that that particular shop is not as reputable as they may seem



Respect is one thing, and everyone is entitled to it. But "a seemingly meaningless piece of paper"? You'd better take a class in contract law to learn what is or is not meaningless. You signed a "contract" -- meaningless or not.

Posted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 02:48 pm Post Subject:

I know better than to be taken advantage of by "all-knowing" auto repair shops; I've been inside them for a decade, I know how they work.



So take a few minutes and enlighten us.

Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 05:17 am Post Subject:

So.....
After all of my aggravation and "ulcer growing" My suspicions were correct.
First of all when I went to pick up the car yesterday, yes I did get the car repaired at the body shop it was at, I went over everything and it all looked good. Then when my wife showed up I started looking under the hood. I noticed that the A/C condenser, which had supposedly been replaced, was pushed up on the bottom in the exact came place that it had been prior to the repairs. I mentioned it to the csm that was dealing with my car and he assured me that it had been replaced, but if I was concerned he would have it "straightened out" for me (basically told me that he would have the tech un-smash the condenser that they supposedly replaced, but obviously didn't). I said I would look the car over further when I got home and let him know if I had any other concerns. I, then paid the deductible and drove away.

About 1 or 2 miles down the road the car started sputtering a little. I didn't think much of it, but when I got on the freeway it started blowing white smoke out of the tailpipe. Then it started sputtering and missing really badly. I merged onto another freeway about 1/2 mile or so down the road and as I looked up at the exit sign I noticed that the temp gauge was pegged on HOT. I pulled off the freeway immediately, but the car was running really rough and smelled like burning coolant.

Now I'm really having a conniption!

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