by Greengoblin75 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 06:00 am
My 2011 Rav4 was hit along with 4 other parked cars by a rented bus. The driver was arrested for DUI and list of other charges. He plead guilty to DUI and failing to report an accident.
The book value on the Rav4 is $28K and damage was $13K. I went through my own collision for the repairs. I wanted to ask for some advice about a diminished value claim against the at fault insurance company and if that is possible now because I went through my collision coverage for the repair.
Also, because the bus was rented, there are 2 insurance company’s involved. The rental company is self-insured and the driver had Travelers. My insurance company is Gieco and when I spoke to them about this, they said I was on my own. They basically said I they hope to get my $500 back to me.
I was told by a guy that owns one of the other parked cars that the bus driver only had $10k in property damage coverage. I asked Gieco about that. They told me they don’t know this information. I have uninsured/underinsured property damage coverage so I don’t know if that helps in a diminished value claim.
I live in New Jersey. If anyone has any advice or information for me, it would appreciate. There is so much conflicting info out there on this topic.
(The accident happened December 1st and I get my car back on friaday :D )
The book value on the Rav4 is $28K and damage was $13K. I went through my own collision for the repairs. I wanted to ask for some advice about a diminished value claim against the at fault insurance company and if that is possible now because I went through my collision coverage for the repair.
Also, because the bus was rented, there are 2 insurance company’s involved. The rental company is self-insured and the driver had Travelers. My insurance company is Gieco and when I spoke to them about this, they said I was on my own. They basically said I they hope to get my $500 back to me.
I was told by a guy that owns one of the other parked cars that the bus driver only had $10k in property damage coverage. I asked Gieco about that. They told me they don’t know this information. I have uninsured/underinsured property damage coverage so I don’t know if that helps in a diminished value claim.
I live in New Jersey. If anyone has any advice or information for me, it would appreciate. There is so much conflicting info out there on this topic.
(The accident happened December 1st and I get my car back on friaday :D )
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 02:14 pm Post Subject:
He plead guilty to DUI
That was a bigger mistake than his actual DUI. If you hadn't filed this claim through your own insurance company, you could have sued for all your damages in civil court and the only issue would have been the proof of loss, because the GUILTY conviction in criminal court is a free pass to a WIN in civil court. The idiot drunk driver should have pled NO CONTEST.
because I went through my collision coverage for the repair.
This was your first mistake, although it sped up process of repairing your vehicle, your loss was a "third party" loss, and your insurance is designed to pay "first party" losses.
My insurance company is Gieco and when I spoke to them about this, they said I was on my own. They basically said I they hope to get my $500 back to me.
Part of that is true, and part is not. Yes, it is GEICO's responsibility, because you filed a "third party" loss as a "first party" claim, to recover your deductible when they attempt to subrogate against the other parties and their insurance companies. (I seriously doubt a "rental" vehicle was self-insured -- only a genuine fool would do that. Imagine the liability if the vehicle was rented to a drunk driver. Oh . . . that's what happened.)
The part that isn't true is "you are on your own" when it comes to diminished value. You continue your claim for diminished value against GEICO, not the other party. You leave GEICO on their own to collect from the other parties.
I have uninsured/underinsured property damage coverage so I don’t know if that helps in a diminished value claim.
If this is true, then you've really mucked this up by filing a first party claim. But, yes, it would apply to payment of your diminished value claim if there is no other available insurance money from the other parties to cover your total claim -- which could be true if all the other parties filed their claims with the at fault parties' insurance companies . . . making your claim late to the party.
Next time, unless the collision is your fault, you should file the claim with the at fault party's insurance company. It may take a bit longer to get your money, but it is the proper path to a claim.
And if you think about suing the at fault parties in this case, then GEICO will leave you on your own and wait to come after you after you collect anything in court, for all the money they've paid on your claim. In essence, you will have done all their work for them when it comes to subrogating the claim.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 02:50 pm Post Subject:
Thanks for the reply. I read in NJ, that 1st party claims can not have diminished value. Only 3rd party claims can. Geico told me not to file anything with them. They gave me contact info for the other companies.
Did I loose my right to get diminished value by using collision in the first place?
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 05:10 pm Post Subject:
Well, then I guess you file that claim with Travelers. You did not lose your right to a diminished value claim -- that's always the responsibility of the at fault party.
Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 08:35 pm Post Subject:
Thank you for letting me know I did not lose my right for filing the diminished value claim. I knew at the time I was probably not handling this situation correctly. But I was overwhelmed with other things going on in my life. I was also starting a new job 2 days later, and had just moved apartments (luckily I updated all the insurance and drivers license information 2 days before).
I double checked on the plea. Yes it was "guilty". This guy was a real clown. I don't think he is worried about a civil suit personally. He is only worried about his immigration “status”. Judge said he might face some issues regarding that. I read between the lines as that meant lack of status. Maybe the subtle difference between guilty and no contest didn't get pointed out to him by his lawyer or his translator did not translate that line very well.
In all honestly, at the time, with the information I had available, going through collision was really my only option. The driver had a Washington State License, a NY address, a rental bus, and was in jail. The accident report said “Self Insured” The other people involved in the accident who went the 3rd party route had their cars sitting on the street for 2 weeks. One guys Caddy had 6 inches of rain water in it before he finally put it under his collision.
Since I get the car back very shortly, I am thinking about having it professionally appraised. Then I am going to attempt to trade it in. That should give me 2 values to establish what the actual diminished value of the car really is.
Does a commercial rental company’s insurance not have to pay for property damage caused by one of their vehicles when it was rented out? Is that just the responsibility of the driver who rented the vehicle?
I looked into “Self Insured” and in NJ it is an option for companies that have fleets of 25 vehicles or more. It seems like a lot of companies do this and just get umbrella coverage for when disaster strikes.
Anyway, the most important question I have is, is it possible for diminished value claim and a collision claim to be submitted separately? As in one goes to first party and one goes third party? And how would I begin to research information on this topic? That’s my biggest concern right now.
Thanks for your reply so far.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 02:12 am Post Subject:
Does a commercial rental company’s insurance not have to pay for property damage caused by one of their vehicles when it was rented out? Is that just the responsibility of the driver who rented the vehicle?
This sort of depends on whether the renter chose the various insurance options at the time of rental.
It seems like a lot of companies do this and just get umbrella coverage
Well, the thing about "umbrella" coverage is . . . it doesn't work if you're self-insured. Umbrella is "excess liability" insurance, and it only pays after the underlying HIGH LIMITS of a personal or commercial liability policy have been exhausted -- who would want to give out $1,000,0000+ in low cost insurance and be first in line to pay claims?
Your diminshed value claim is going to be measured in the small thousands of dollars (probably $5.000 to $8,000), so it makes little sense to go looking for an attorney at this point.
Unfortunately, the limit for Small Claims Cases in NJ is a paltry $3000. You might be able to sue two different parties for $3000 each, but I'm not sure about that at all. They would have to be different legal filings. and you probably couldn't do them both at the same time. You could check with the clerk of the Small Claims Court and see what they say.
If you can''t do that, then you would have to file suit in Superior Court, which means lawyers and expenses that would easily exceed the value of your loss.
See what happens with Travelers first. Then you can make a decision as to how you want to proceed. There's no rush at this point in time. You actually have SIX YEARS in NJ to file an action for injury to personal property. That's pretty generous.
Diminished value claims are separate actions. You have your claim for property damage -- the direct loss. Then you have the potential for diminished value after the repairs are effected. Two related, but separate, claims.
Your first party claim was one of expedience -- as you noticed, the other vehicles were idle for two weeks, while GEICO took good care of you (even though it was really a third party loss). Behind the scenes, they will attempt to subrogate their entire loss + your deductible (which you should get before they get their share). But you have no way of knowing what happens "behind the scenes" -- it's an industry arbitration system. Very hush-hush.
Here are a couple of starting points:
http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2011/04/primer-on-calculating-diminished-value.html#.UPisKGcm-So
http://diminishedvalueofgeorgia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Mabry-V-State-Farm.pdf (this is a Georgia Supreme Court opinion. Not necessarily the law in NJ, but it will give you an idea of what diminished value is really all about and how insurance companies value such claims -- it is instructive if nothing else)
http://www.jaburgwilk.com/media/44964/farmers%20ins.%20co.%20of%20ariz.%20v.%20rbl%20inv.%20co.%20675%20p.%202d%201381%20ariz%20court%20of%20appeals,%202nd%20div.%201983%20.pdf
(This is case law from Arizona that held selling one's vehicle is not a requirement to prove diminished value)
Although NJ does bar first-party diminished value claims (an exclusion that almost certainly exists in your contract), you still can go after the third-party who is responsible for your damages. If you choose to sue, you sue both the rental agency and the renter.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 05:56 am Post Subject:
Act quickly, before sentencing contact the district attorney’s office and ask their victim services unit about restitution (i.e. a criminal Court Order requiring the defendant to satisfy any damages as a condition of release from jail). If you want to talk in greater detail, please feel free to contact my office.
Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 02:53 pm Post Subject:
I tried the restitution. Told no since insurance was taking care of the situation, it was not needed.
As for the sentence, 12 hours in jail, $803 fine, 7 month suspension, and an ignition interlock device on car. He doesn't own a car, so I don't think that's a big deal. Also some sort of insurance surcharge.
For the amount of damage this guy caused, his sentence seemed like a joke. I don't know if he got lucky or that is just the way things work in NJ.
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