Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Repairing automobiles, homes, human bodies, etc. is NOT the business of Insurance and insurers should not be meddling with (coercing) these businesses.
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS. That's a repairers job. The one that actually fixes cars..!
Insurer's as an industry set the price of insurance as the market (consumer) will allow.
And
Repairer's as an Profession set the price of repair as the market (consumer) will allow.
That's the Free Market this country was built from.
But... Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.
So much for my Rambling Rant. It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway.
I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
BECAUSE.....
In my personal Opinion:
Point - 1. The consumer has an agreement with the Repairer to repair their auto as discussed between the repairer and the car owner.
Point - 2. The consumer has an agreement with the Insurer that says the insurer will pay for any covered loss, minus any deductible if applicable.
Point - 3. The Repairer is not listed anywhere in the consumers Insurance Policy and has no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 4 The Insurer is not listed anywhere in the consumers agreement of repair with the Repairer, leaving the repairer with no rights or obligations with or to the consumer's insurer.
Point - 5 The repairer has no automatic right discussing and/or modifying that repair agreement at the request of any third party, which would include (but not limited to) representatives from, insurance co.'s, bank's, law firm's, in-law's, grandma, etc.
So... lets see.
Who is my customer? The consumer.
Who's responsibility is it to pay me? The consumer.
If the actual repair is less than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge less? The consumer
If the actual repair is more than the estimate I wrote, who do I charge more? The consumer.
Just like most other businesses on the Planet..!
I'm NOT a Claims Handler, I Fix Cars. It really simplifies things.
Its not my insurance policy, and its not the insurance companies automobile.
To the best of my limited knowledge the insured only has an obligation to allow an insurer the opportunity to verify there is damage and that damage is covered under the Insurance Policy. NOT Attempt to SET THE PRICE of REPAIRS.
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....
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I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second....
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Well, the answer certainly is NOT the insurer's badly flawed Visible Damage Appraisal..!!
Again I ask you what is the solution? You have a lot of rhetoric, but no solution...I'm serious you tell me how to handle this... _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Read your policy...I'll quote from a MO policy..." Cost to repair is determined by US...We base that determination on our knowledge of the prices repair facilites chare in teh geographic area where the repair is to be done...To aid us in determining cost to repair we may use any one or more of the databases, appraisal tools and other methods the insurance idustry commonly uses to determine those charges"...(remember I didn't write this)....
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
""I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
You don't? hmm so a guy comes by says I want an estimate to repair this 1/4 and door, you say, well don't know till I do it? Or you just let the guy leave the vehicle and then give him a whollop of a surprise when he comes to pick it up with your ''final bill'' come on Fred...You have to have some discussion on the front end of the job about what the estimated cost of repair will be...actually depending on your state, that is a law...so you're telling us...no body knows or has any idea of the cost of repairs done in your shop until the job is done? Sorry buddy I don't believe that for a second.... Quote:""
There ya go... blowin smoke..!
What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
Anyway.
What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Actually, with many of my customer pay jobs, they/we discuss what they want done and schedule the repair. They don't even mention estimate or cost... Why... you must be wondering??
Because my customers understand the value and consistency of my services. They like not having to return later to have something re-done or re-adjusted.
They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
==============
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out. Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims practices such as the VDR (Visual Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
Thank you Lori, the above is an excellent example of ""Insurer's with their seemingly endless supply of Money and Influence constantly interfere with the concept of consumer driven Free Trade.""
Don't kill the messenger Fred, I simply copied it from a policy...Didn't write it....
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There ya go... blowin smoke..!
What's the matter? Did I get to close to the truth?? Is that what put you into Attack mode?
WHAT? Are you in the wrong thread? What smoke? What attack mode? you said you NEVER have supplements I ask you how that is at all possible...and that is smoke blowin' and attack? What truth? Seriously Fred, what are you talking about..you made this statement....not me.....
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I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
I simply ask you to explain how on earth that is possible? You still haven't explained that either...
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What comes first, an Estimate or supplement??
aaaaaaa an estimate....
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Where in any of my Posts on this board or any other have I ever said I do not write an estimate??
Ok, I see I guess I misunderstood your symatic game...how is....
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I don't do supplements, I do Final Bills and give them to my customer to pay in full.
a ''final bill'' not a supplelment if you are writing an estimate? If it is not EXACTLY the same as the estimate, that now I understand you write, then your ''final bill'' IS a supplement...higher or lower...the word supplement in this context means that something has changed...so Fred, you are writing supplements..you just chose to call them final bills, ok, that's fine it's still the same thing...
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They don't even mention estimate or cost
Must have an affluent clientele because I don't know ANYONE that would give any shop or anyone for that matter an open check book.....that is no reflections on you, do you go to any business and do that?? Guess if you have an endless source of money it wouldn't be an issue...
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They know my character and that I will do a professional, timely, complete repair at an very reasonable price. With or without an estimate. I'm sure you will have an difficult time with such a concept, but, unknown to many insurer's, not everyone in the auto repair business is a low life crook.
I have no issue with your character or the type of job you do or don't do....you entered this thread complaining about field written estimates, and I've explained to you how this occurs, you accuse the ins industry of intentionally underwriting to rip people off, when I ask you time and time again to help find a solution, you won't and do you know why? Because there is none...You can only write what you can see...as fas as the low life crook comment...I've never said that all shops are low life crooks, I worked in a shop for several years, and some of my dearest and best friends are techs/managers/ and owners...so that little comment doesn't hold a lick of water...wish you could or would say the same about adjusters... .once again Fred...what is the solution? _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
As for how to fix the VDR problem...... That's your industries problem, You figure it out.
Throw some ideas out on the board and we can all add our two cents worth of comment. Who
knows, maybe an good idea will surface.
Insurer's really need to find a better way to protect their customers from unfair claims
practices such as the VDR (Visible Damage Report).
I'm sure the OP of this thread would agree.
FK,
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
That's not true Fred, I've got my hearing aid turned up as loud as it will go...
Well the only thing I can think of is if the owner of the vehicle would agree to pay the tear down fee (assuming they are not going to repair it) to the shop for a full inspection, and the shop could then make another 'pitch' for the job. But then you run into the problem of what if there is no additional damage? Then the owner is out that 1-2-3-4 hours and runs the risk of the vehicle not going back together...any thoughts? _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Slow down, relax, take a break,.... then read 'each word' quoted below.
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Did you miss this at the end of my last Post??
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Actually I did Fred...sorry about that...
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But like I stated earlier, __ "It likely will fall on Deaf Eye's anyway."__
That's not true Fred, I've got my hearing aid turned up as loud as it will go..
did you see it this time?? The play with words?
So turning up your hearing aid as loud as it will go, will not help you SEE the typed words on your monitor. Sometimes a little play with words helps me determine how someone responding "reads" my written words. Which in turn helps me better understand their written words.
[b]FK,
PS, I will get back to you on your "visible damage" thoughts when I can.
I've got two cars to complete for a local Car Show on August second, and another customer just left his Vette for a front bumper replacement. He never ask about prices, just said to call when it was done. Best part.... No insurer interference with any of them. That's what Free Trade is all about. Give the consumer what they know to expect and get paid in full when its done. I like fixing cars and having customer's that appreciate what I do. And man oh man I sure appreciate them.
Let's keep in mind that we really don't know any of the circumstances of the OP's post.
In my experience with claims the process moves very slowly. So the initial estimate (Before work starts) is not the payout by the insurer. It's just an initial estimate. Once the work starts more problems can become obvious (in my limited experience). Fred you would know better if it is possible for larger damages to be discovered after removal of a part of the body (ie bumper or quarter panel). The insurer will pay the claim regardless of where it ends up.
To the Original Poster - are you worried about the severity of the claim for fear of your driving record? The accident will hurt your record regardelss of its size. This is why smaller claims sometimes get solved by the parties involved without insurance involvement.
Fred, the insurers are very involved in the process. Otherwise if I had an accident I would take my car to my mechanic and we could work out a private deal where we each make an profit from my initial loss (ie pad the bill by $1000). Not everyone is as honest as you. And those less than honest people would take advantage of the situation if the insurer wasn't so involved. The insurers are managing a trust of your money and my money. We don't want to pay any higher rates so controlling claims is in everyone's best interest (except of course the person experiencing a loss).
I hope my comments help a bit? Now to find an aspirin .... lol _________________ I am an insurance broker from Ontario licensed for all types of insurance.
So turning up your hearing aid as loud as it will go, will not help you SEE the typed words on your monitor. Sometimes a little play with words helps me determine how someone responding "reads" my written words. Which in turn helps me better understand their written words.
Great theory Fred..you caught me...and pegged me well with this too!
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Lori, Slow down, relax, take a break,.... then read 'each word' quoted below.
I'm one of those always going at 100mph people with a million things to do, or dead out one........thanks though seriously....
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I've got two cars to complete for a local Car Show on August second, and another customer just left his Vette for a front bumper replacement.
Good luck at the show!!.....
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No insurer interference with any of them. That's what Free Trade is all aboutGive the consumer what they know to expect and get paid in full when its done. I like fixing cars and having customer's that appreciate what I do. And man oh man I sure appreciate them.
I agree great gig if you can swing it...Do you do mostly self pays, and resto work Fred? _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Watch out if this one gave you a headache there are some thread that might cause you to pass out...trust me...... _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
It would be interesting to know who wrote the first est... and yes it does make a difference, from what I understand the first est. is what the Ins. Co. has to have put into reserves to settle the claim. I think supplements are part of the business but that percentage amount by anyones standards would be questionable.
from what I understand the first est. is what the Ins. Co. has to have put into reserves to settle the claim
No that's not correct...every company I know of, on physcial damage automatically set an ''average'' reserve (for PD, comp and collision)...average meaning the average payment of all comp claims (for instance) is the reserve set, these change in most company's weekly or monthly...Now BI reserves are set first as an average, then soon adjusted up or down depending the adjusters imput...Besides that a company would be in deep well you know if they didn't set a reserve immediately upon the claim being turned in and knowing that coverage is in order...they don't wait for an estimate to be written to set a reserve, it is set when the claim is reported.
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I think supplements are part of the business but that percentage amount by anyones standards would be questionable.
I agree, but I'm just pretty sure the rep ''tagged'' the car... _________________ Have you been helped by a poster? Do you want to show your appreciation? YOU CAN !! Just simply click on the donate button and send them some coin!
Most appraisers are not allowed to write a complete estimate. If an insured or claimant cashes out the insurance company saves. This is commonly called a street estimate. There is usually additional damage discovered once the vehicle has been disassembled. You probably had a combination of both. If you actually had the repairs performed all the needed items will be added on once the shop contacts the insurance company for a supplement. As you can see cashing out and then shopping around and trying to pocket a few dollars yourself usually does not work.
Sometimes a little play with words helps me determine how someone responding "reads" my written words. Which in turn helps me better understand their written words.
