Opt for new auto parts while settling with your Ins. Co.

by Guest » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:21 am

My cousin Bob and another guy went for a long drive last Saturday evening and got struck by a rash driver from a distance. The bully escaped narrowly but was trapped later in the morning .The repair works for Bob would be somewhat around $4000. Bob's insurer had agreed to support him with aftermarket body parts for his vehicle, to which Bob's reaction was simple and stern. He did not want his insurer to provide him with aftermarket parts. He maintained that it was his insurer's job to collect the new parts from the tormentor. He had a hard time convincing the insurance representative till he revealed his other identity as an attorney.

Of late his insurance company has offered him new market parts, and also expressed their willingness to resolve matters soon. Could we ever look forward to a hassle-free world ?

Regards,
Blackberry

Total Comments: 172

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 09:38 pm Post Subject:

So, LORI,you do use the p-pages arbitrarily then! So typical.

No how do you figure that it's arbitrary when something isn't in them at all! There is also such a thing as common practice for an area....If all the shops in my area requested to be paid for a certain operation that isn't even mentioned in the p-pages, then more than likely they would get paid for it....just because YOU charge for something certainly is no indication that ALL shops do or should...For instance one of my larger shops, requests that all vehicles come back to the shop 30 days or so after the vehicle has delivered, they wash the vehicle and vacuum it out (free of charge) and go over their work again...Now, this is a customer service that this shop does for free. It helps build their customer base and something they can say they do that no one else does....so does that mean Mike that you should be doing this too? Course not....Just like when one shop advertises that they will (as an example) tow your vehicle in for free within 15 miles or so....not chargin' for that either...

Is it possible that Lori was incorrect or merely stating company inclusions and exclusions?

Read it straight from the screen...but see Mike all of these, say that it's not required on all vehicles...or similar such statements ie

Refinished panels may or may not require a varying amount of de-nibbing

Additional steps or processes that may be required should be considered during estimate preparation.

So Mike are you telling me that you are charging (and getting paid) and additional .3 per paint hour on every job to denib and polish? Seriously? I've got to get the phone book out and call the other shops in Joplin and see if they too are doing this...another reason to go to another shop...Why if one shop (of equal quality and skill) would do this for free, and you are charging for it, would a person or carrier not chose the shop that the chose to do this for their customers without charging extra? Seriously think about it Mike.

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:44 pm Post Subject:

I just quoted you three sources of p-pages where it suggests payment is owed when necessary. It's arbitrary because you refuse to accept it is printed in black and white and you choose to ignore it? Come on Lori, think and read with your eyes and do not read with rose colored glasses your company gives you. :roll:

I am not aware of what other shops charge or get paid for, it's not my business and I don't really care. If it was necessary and it commonly is, the insurers would not pay for it because it is not a common prevailing practice or it is not something that insurers choose to pay for based on the lame excuse, no one else charges for it. Arbitrary

Day one in insurance adjuster school one is taught to say "We don't pay for that" and "you are the only one". You know what, insurers didn't use to pay for hazardous waste either, they didn't use to pay for car covers, they claimed they didn't owe markup for the use of the shop's money to pay for sublet items. Oh those clips and materials specific to that job surely are covered in your overhead. Some dependent upon insurer shops choose to accept those lies. Why do you suppose the largest collision trade organizations in the tri- states are seeking legislation (unwisely) to make insurers use the entire database instead of arbitrarily. Mainly it's because most of them work for the insurer and not the consumer and you won't allow them to charge you for it. One of the sad non benefits and bi-products of DRP programs is that they have to ask permission and authorization from the insurer to whom they have enslaved themselves to, instead of the person who owns the property and contracts with the shop. It is the insurer that owes them not the shop. Shops that realize this help consumers get paid.

So we are back onto the insurance merry go round and circular logic. It's not because no one is asking to be paid for it, it's because insurers refuse to pay for it like anything else. Just like I said, you pick and choose what you want to use out of your data base and ignore the block and prime and cut & buff and denib. We only pay 1.5 units for set up and measure blah blah blah. it drones on and on and always has.

So on a current hail damage job, I charged for it, got paid for it by the consumer. Consumer collected entire bill in full from their insurer and I had no contact with the insurer and did not base my invoice on the insurer estimate. Oh I am sure, on the insurer estimate, no line item showed on the adjuster's final paperwork for buffing or the materials, they simply cost shifted it to cover their behind. I do see a lot of everyone elses work in my area from time to time. They too, are buffing for free or not buffing and leaving their dirt in it at the largest drp shops with the most expensive of booths. Must be all this Oklahoma and Kansas dust crossing the state line. I've inspected vehicles from some of the largest dealership shops for BMW and Infinity in the state on DV assessment and guess what, they're buffing their work. To the trained eye, it is obvious. And with a mil guage it can be proven. See they have poor applicators and painting habits in all corners of the states or is it just common practice that a quality shop buffs and de-nibs their work whether they are paid for it or not.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:19 am Post Subject:

Perhaps it's just me but I fail to see that you have any point Mike. You have claimed _many_ times that the insurance company and shop have no contract or obligations what so ever. You bill the consumer. So why do you can what the insurance company pays? Again... pointless.

Move on already,

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:45 am Post Subject:

No kidding T...Mike you drone on and on, about how you don't and will not have anything to do with the carriers...so as T said, What's your complaint? Keep doing what you're doing, and leave everyone else alone....

Out of one side of your mouth you say that it's ok for you to charge more, or for things shops in your area do not charge THEIR CUSTOMERS for. Then just a few posts ago, you deny it! :roll: same Mike different thread...

Seriously, if all the shops in a given area, EXCEPT for Mike are not charging for routine operations, why oh why would anyone want to have their vehicle fixed at your shop? Apparently you have no issue nickel and dimeing your customers to death....just like this ridiculous statement...

One of the sad non benefits and bi-products of DRP programs is that they have to ask permission and authorization from the insurer to whom they have enslaved themselves to, instead of the person who owns the property and contracts with the shop. It is the insurer that owes them not the shop. Shops that realize this help consumers get paid.

Yeah, rather than contact anyone that knows more that than poor old 80 year old man about collision repair. You're gonna call him up, or maybe his 95 year old sister, and say, 'hey by the way, ran into a little addition problem here, while doing the alignment we realize that you're gonna need a lower control arm, hub and bearing, and a strut too...gonna increase your bill by about 800 bucks ok?' What are they gonna say? They have no idea what these parts are or what they do...better yet, call em up and say, after setting up your car and measuring it we have determined you have about four control points moved, little mash and sway, so gonna need, oh, bout 5 hours frame time on this puppy too'...again what are they gonna say? If you pointed to it they still wouldn't know what you are talking about! Mike, I'm not for one second saying that you would screw over someone, but you and I both know without watch dogs, there are shops that would rape both the consumer and insurance carriers alike...but again what on earth do you care? Other than the fact that apparently you charge for things your neighboring shops don't (including administrative fees? pa-leeeeeeeze :roll: )... which will eventually nickel and dime you right out of buisness...so leave the other guys alone for pete's sake, you keep touting that your business is in superb condition...so why not tick a lock, and and keep dropping all that money into the bank every night? T and I will keep doing our jobs making sure that vehicles are repaired correctly and properly and that no one is getting ripped off. And you don't have to worry about it, cause, well you don't do 'insurance' work...k?

They too, are buffing for free or not buffing and leaving their dirt in it at the largest drp shops with the most expensive of booths. Must be all this Oklahoma and Kansas dust crossing the state line.

Yeah, yeah, you're the only good shop within a million mile radius we get it...not one DRP shop knows a fender from a quarter...they all mix their paint with a stick...we got it Mike... :roll:

I've inspected vehicles from some of the largest dealership shops for BMW and Infinity in the state on DV assessment and guess what, they're buffing their work.

Of course they are I never said no one buffed their work, just that no one asks to get paid for it (on a refinished panel)...these guys didn't either did they?

See they have poor applicators and painting habits in all corners of the states or is it just common practice that a quality shop buffs and de-nibs their work whether they are paid for it or not.

No see you proved my point they all do it just NO BODY BUT YOU thinks they need to get paid extra for it... :roll: but hey didn't you just (a post or two ago) deny that you won't / don't work for the prevailing rate? That your door rates are higher, and of course all these 'extra' things you charge for that NO ONE (by your own admission) in your area charge for? Pick one Mike and try and stick with it....better yet, get a hobby, (oh wait this is your hobby isn't it?)...seriously why do you care?

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 04:16 am Post Subject:

No see you proved my point they all do it just NO BODY BUT YOU thinks they need to get paid extra for it... but hey didn't you just (a post or two ago) deny that you won't / don't work for the prevailing rate? That your door rates are higher, and of course all these 'extra' things you charge for that NO ONE (by your own admission) in your area charge for? Pick one Mike and try and stick with it....better yet, get a hobby, (oh wait this is your hobby isn't it?)...seriously why do you care?
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Don't know what you're reading Lori. Never said my door rate was higher. There may be things I get paid for that others don't simply because I know who my customer is and how to help them get paid what is owed to them.

or for things shops in your area do not charge THEIR CUSTOMERS for. Then just a few posts ago, you deny it! same Mike different thread...

I'll go on record as saying I think ,on the whole, the work from my area of the state is equal or surpasses the quality of anyone elses in the state. I just can't figure out why they want to give you kickbacks for the referrals, kiss your feet and thank you for the crumbs, and complain at meetings about insurers and why they can't get you to pay them for things as we discussed earlier. Some apparently drank the koolaid insurers gave them back in the nineties and believed insurers would form partnerships and take care of them. I can't imagine why they continue to complain about the disparities and having to give insurers what amounts to kickbacks to remain on those precious preferred lists. I don't understand why they complain when it is their name on the front of their business, yet they let you dictate arbitrarily to them how much you will allow them to be paid for any given procedure. I simply have the courage to be independent on these issues while they choose to wimper, moan, and comply.

The more things change the more they remain the same. Ever the good and loyal company propagandist, deny, delay, distort the facts. Change the subject, attempt ridicule, demean, and personal attacks...geez. Must really chap your hide for a business owner to disagree and refuse to go along to get along with your perceived authority.

T, take a chill pill. Somebody is obviously interested in this dialogue based on the views. If you don't wish to participate work on some of those subrogation and fraud claims they save for the big brain independents you bragged about. Maybe Progressive will need to consult you for that trial. It's been delayed by the way so adios for about 3 weeks.

If every shop in a three county area decided they would start charging for those arbitrarily eliminated procedures that are listed in the procedural pages, you would then include them on your estimates? Ha, hardly, they would all get private meetings from their drp pimps if they were on programs reminding them who the boss is and they would tuck their tells and wimper and agree to do them for free.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 04:32 am Post Subject:

I just can't figure out why they want to give you kickbacks for the referrals, kiss your feet and thank you for the crumbs, and complain at meetings about insurers and why they can't get you to pay them for things as we discussed earlier.

You want to make as much money as possible, so don't blame insurance _companies_ for wanting the same thing. If you want all body shops to jump on board, sounds like you're barking up the wrong tree.

I simply have the courage to be independent on these issues while they choose to wimper, moan, and comply.

I deal with hundreds of shops... they don't seem to have any problems with what I pay. Perhaps it's just you?

Must really chap your hide for a business owner to disagree and refuse to go along to get along with your perceived authority.

Only one person I see has an issue with it... the same one that claims it matters not to him. Since you don't have a problem with it and it should not matter if a millions other shops do (???), move on.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 04:41 am Post Subject:

I've tried to move on, and every time I leave, someone sends me a note telling me you guys drug up a post and hammered me again. A guys got a right to defend himself to bullies.

Now who's head is buried in the sand, the natives are restless and shops across the country are not happy with all the trade magazines reporting as such, but oh yeah, these aren't the national media. I predict yours and Lori's paths will cross more shop owners growing a set in the next year or two, and making your jobs as unpleasant as you imply I make you feel.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 04:49 am Post Subject:

the natives are restless and shops across the country are not happy with all the trade magazines reporting as such

Again, why would (or any of them care)? As you said yourself, many times, you don't need to concern yourself with what insurance companies pay. Move on.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 04:54 am Post Subject:

Oh, I have to concern myself with what they pay, I am, afterall, a consumer too. I have to concern myself when people come to me and ask for some direction on how to get a fair settlement and some insurer is trying to take advantage of the uninformed and their agent or adjuster won't pick up a phone. After all I believe you may have said something to the effect, it's their own fault for not reading their policies.

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 05:59 am Post Subject:

Oh, I have to concern myself with what they pay, I am, afterall, a consumer too.

But all of your posts are from a body shop point of view... not a customers point of view. Again, as you've said yourself... you don't need to concern yourself with that an insurance company pays. Move on.

Opt for new auto parts while settling with your Ins. Co.

Total Comments: 172

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