bad repair

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:46 pm   Post subject: bad repair  

My car was fixed at a body shop that my insurance instructed me to go to.

It was supposed to take 2 weeks and ended up taking a month. I ended up having to take it back a few times for numerous problems. Each time, I was assured by my adjuster that they would make it right or find someone who would. The bigest probleml now is the paimnt. It doesn't match the rest of the car, and the shop ended up having to paint parts that had nothing to do with the damage. I became so fed up, I took it to another shop recommended by a friend. The shopsays they can fic the paint and other problems. The problesm now is, the insurance will not pay me or the shop to fix something that was supposedly under warranty. They tell me they have to let the shop who fixed it originally fixed. It would be 5th time and I feel uncomfortable and feel i am being pressured to take it back. it's obvious they cant do it. Can i just get some money from the insurance and fix it on my own. i am embarresed to drive it.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:56 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
the shop ended up having to paint parts that had nothing to do with the damage.
This is very common, it's just blending to adjacent panels..



The shop that did the job, should have the opportunity to fix what they messed up...regardless of the reason the vehicle was at that shop...now, what exactly were the reasons that you took it back, (these five times) and did they resolve those issues? You say 'now' it's the paint not matching, wasn't the paint 'not matching' the day you picked it up? What I'm getting at is why was this not brought up immediately when you picked up the car?



I'd personally give a shop one maybe two trys to fix their own mess up...after that I'd be done with them (assuming it was the same problem)...try to lay it out a little better for us so we can grasp exactly what the issues were and if they dealt with those..



Did your carrier or the shop cover a rental? Why did the repair go from 2 to 4 weeks?



Does the shop or adjuster agree that the paint is a poor match?



The insurance company isn't going to give you some money for this..they do HAVE to make it right though...including a rental while this 're-work' is being preformed...



If the shop had in fact had the opportunity to remedy the issue and have not done so...then you need to tell the carrier that you want to have this repaired at another shop...they 'should' want to reinspect your vehicle, write an estimate for the rework...talk to the shop you want to have fix it....give the original shop the opportunity to look at the problem (i'd have all four there, you, adjuster, orginal shop and new shop). They I (as the adjuster) would come to a repair agreement with new shop, and pay ask the old shop if they want to pay this repairer direct, or I would pay it, then go to the original shop for repayment...



Again, though I'd like to know the sequence of events, and what exactly has been addressed. And also (again) why is the paint issue just now being brought up?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:40 pm   Post subject:   

If you are just speaking to the adjuster you are probably not going to get very far. You need to see about moving this up to the Property Damage manager. In many cases I've seen them personally go out and look at the vehicle and speak to the shop. This manager is the person with the ability to take the shop right of the insurance companies list of preferred shops without a second thought.



If they have not been able to correct the situation after a try or two, I'd certain push to have another shop do the work. As mentioned, the insurance company can write up the cost to correct and they would probably ask the initial shop to pay the bill.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:41 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
feel i am being pressured to take it back.




The best thing to do in this situation, would be to take it to the shop that you want to fix/redo the repair and leave it there. Let that shop work with the insurer to correct the problems. I'm sorry that you have had a bad experiance. However, in my opinion you have let the insurer dicatate who is to correct these problems. This is something they have no authority over, they do not own your vehicle and cannot force you to keep going back to this shop. You could have taken your vehicle elsewhere the first time to correct the problems. When an insurer tells you that the shop who originally fixed the vehicle should have the oppotunity to correct issues, I agree they should be. However, you are under no obligation to do so.



It doesn't sound like these "issues" are unreasonable as the insurer has agreed to "fix" them each time. Is this correct? I would like to know about the paint issue as well. Did the paint not match from the get go as Lori asked? What you have described sounds to me like that shop has begun "chasing" the color around the vehicle in order to make it match. Applying paint to other panels not involved in the repair to make it match. This excluding blending/color matching as Lori pointed out.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:54 pm   Post subject:   

The color did match the first time. It doesn't match now cuz the bumper part on the top of the car had to be ordered again cuz it would not fit is what I was told me. The repair manager said in order to get the color right, he had to repaint the quartor panles and the hood. Now the doors do not match this color. They replaced my windshield because it had a crack in it, this was from a baseball that hit it over a year ago. The seal failed I guess because it began leaking. That was bringing back a 3rd time. when i explained the windshiled to the adjuster, he got mad and said why didn't i tell them that first? Because i honestly didn't realize the winshield had been replaced after i picked it up, i am not lying. The repair manager said this was a decision made by the adjuster and that they replaced it a used one from a junk yard. it was long repair, because the shop could not get the frame right -tried many times- sent it to some place else that couldn't do it right away. i ended up having to pay for rental for over a week. i tried ghetting my company to help me they would not. I gave the estimate to the insurerance company from the other shop. they said it was to much. The shop said that they would have to remove fix what the shop did wrong before they could correct the problems. The adjuster said they can't authorize that. they want the original shop to fix what they did wrong and then this other shop could fix it. but they don't to do that, the other shop said it is all or nothing what can i do?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:39 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
The shop said that they would have to remove fix what the shop did wrong before they could correct the problems. The adjuster said they can't authorize that. they want the original shop to fix what they did wrong and then this other shop could fix it. but they don't to do that, the other shop said it is all or nothing what can i do?




The new shop is correct. Prevailing rates are for the original repair, there are no set rates for re-repairing bad work. You should be very concerned with mil thickness of the paint with all these repaints and being pressured to use the same repairer again.



I have two thoughts on the matter; one if it was your own insurance company, they have a contractual duty to restore your vehicle to pre loss condition. If they insisted that you use a particular shop, they certainly bare some liability for the poor or deficient repairs. You are under no legal obigation to use a bad repairer twice or are required to allow them to re-repair what they could not do right the first time. Once they claimed their work was complete based on what they and the insurer agreed to pay for and they were a direct repair for that shop, both are liable for the cost to put you back to where you were prior to the accident. You are going to be caught in the middle between the insurer and the repairer each blaming the other most likely. Start corresponding and documenting in writing with both parties if you have not already.



Two, if it wasn't your insurer, then there is a world of legal and contractual remedies open to you through your own carrier or an attorney. You certainly should take your vehicle to a disinterested third party inspector, not employed by the insurer for an expert analysis on the quality or deficiency in the repair so it can be properly documented. Insurers pay for repairs, they are not repair experts. At least this is the position that most like to take in court proceedings.



There is such a thing as repair related diminishment of value or insurer related diminishment of value due to reliance on the chosen repairer or specifying the type and quality of repair. Drop me a private message and I may be able to recommend someone in your area that could serve as your advocate if it a alternative remedy you wish to pursue.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:39 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
The repair manager said in order to get the color right, he had to repaint the quartor panles and the hood. Now the doors do not match this color.




As I said above (when I forgot to sign in), they are chasing the color in order to fix a mistake. Did you authiorize this repair? The bumper not fitting, probably a non-OEM part. Did either party address the use of it?



Quote:
They replaced my windshield because it had a crack in it, this was from a baseball that hit it over a year ago. The seal failed I guess because it began leaking. That was bringing back a 3rd time. when i explained the windshiled to the adjuster, he got mad and said why didn't i tell them that first? Because i honestly didn't realize the winshield had been replaced after i picked it up, i am not lying. The repair manager said this was a decision made by the adjuster and that they replaced it a used one from a junk yard.




That is the adjusters fault for not recognizing non-related damage. Second of all, a used winshield should never be utilized. Besides being a cheap way to keep costs down, more importantly there are numerous safety concerns with installing a used windshield. I highly recommend that you contest this with the insurer. If they do not budge, be smart and have it replaced at your own expense asap. I'm serious they are dangerous!



You had to pay for your own rental??!! Why, it's not your problem. I really can't imagine that the insurer or adjuster would have this much money and time wrapped up in your claim. There were so many options that would have made more cost effective. Who is this company?







Quote:
The shop said that they would have to remove fix what the shop did wrong before they could correct the problems.




Sure. And the insurer and or shop should pay it.





Quote:
they said it was to much.




Sucks to be them. Perhaps they should have thought this through a little better.





Quote:
the other shop said it is all or nothing




Of course, for good reason! There is not shop on the face of the planet that would not express the same thing. Even the preffered shop of the insurer would refuse.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:25 am   Post subject:   

I have a few questions, then want to do a little research for you...



Can you please either scan (after removing personal data) or type in what was done to your car from the estimate that the carrier paid from? I don't see how a rear cover, and windshield, both quarters and a hood...are all within the same claim... Confused Briefly what were the facts of loss..



Are you saying that you gave your carrier two estimates, they paid from the lower of the two estimates? Is that correct? and the lower estimate just happened to be from one of their preferred shops?



Has ANYONE from the insurance company looked at your car after it was repaired? What is the yr/make/model and COLOR of your vehicle? What state are you in? Was this your carrier or another carrier? Did you get a warranty from the shop? From the carrier?



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:32 pm   Post subject:   

I am going to guess that Lindsey is calling the fenders "quarter panels", seems a lot of people do for some reason. In her original post, she said she went to the shop recommended by her carrier, I assuming DRP.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:32 pm   Post subject:   

this entire thread reaks of 'bit's and 'pieces'...the repair took so long because they 'couldn't get the frame right' and had to have another shop do their frame repair? The color matched at first..then the 'top part' of the bumper cover was replaced, and shop painted three (presumeably) adjacent panels (at their own cost of course) to match this (presumeably again) after having matched it the first time? Embarrassed to drive it now, but not for over a year with a busted w/s? I just think we need more questions answered before we throw this shop or the carrier for that matter under the bus...



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:18 pm   Post subject:   

Lori and trench. Sorry I have not communicvated this better. My windshield was broken/cracked like a year before this accident. I didn't know that they replaced it until it started leaking. I had thought that it must had been from the crack, but when I went to look at it, is when I noticed it had been replaced, stupid i know but the truth. The adjuster (from my insurance geico) became upset when I told him that it was part of the accident. I ended having to pay som money on this. That was the second return to the shop 4 days after I had picked it up. My husband complained about the front bumper (sorry i said top) not fitting well. It was not made by Acura. They ordered a new and I came back, again. By that time, the fog lamps were not coming on (they forgot to hook them back in). The paint did match. When the bumper came in, it took them 4 days, of witch I had to pay for my own rental, because I had used up all of my rental coverage. I have a '05 TL and according to the shop, the silver color is hard to do. The had to repaint the hood, i called them quater panels-trench and the fenders lol to make the bumper match. The adjuster was mad at the shop, said that most times bumpers do not match the rest of the car because it is not metal. He explained this by showing us the rear bumper which was off color. We had not noticed this before, had we or the shop we would have accepted it. The alignment was off, due to the shop not being able to fix the frame. They sent it to another shop, and Acura dealership to fix the repair. While there, they fixed the fog lights and a couple of other things I don't remember what. Basically, the front of the car is now a darker silver than the rest of the car, it's embarrasing. I feel if Geico would have let me take it where I wanted to, this would not have happened. I feel they did this on the cheap, but I am the one paying for it. Right now, they have done everything to keep me from going to this other shop for the corrections because they said the shop wants to much. My husband I cannot understand why Geico doesn't want to pay the shop to make it right. I agree that the shop has to get paid for things the other shop did. Geico disagrees. They want the car to return to their shop and then go and work out a deal with the shop that will fix the paint and other things. Trench, I am curious about my windshield after reading your message. They resealed this and it's not leaking now. What is wrong with a used glass, you stated dangerous? Would like some help on this to explain to Geico. Besides everything else, we don't know what we can do. Should we talk with a lawyer?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:34 pm   Post subject:   

I NEVER pay blend on a bumper cover replacement only...as the adjuster said, they don't match to begin with they are a urethan..I do the same thing, have the owner look at their other cover, it's not a match either.. Wink

Quote:
I feel if Geico would have let me take it where I wanted to, this would not have happened.
They CANNOT make you go to one shop over another...in ANY state...what EXACTLY did they say re: going to this shop?



What state are you in so I can check some of the laws/regulations?



also, do you have the Gieco warranty?


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Lori
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:11 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I ended having to pay som money on this




What????!!!!!! If you did not claim this damage, they can't charge you for it. You need to fight this.



Quote:
of witch I had to pay for my own rental, because I had used up all of my rental coverage.




Either the shop or Geico needs to reiumburse you for this. If the original repair was supposed to take 2 weeks, anything beyond that is either the shop or Geico's baby.





Quote:
and according to the shop, the silver color is hard to do. The had to repaint the hood, i called them quater panels-trench and the fenders lol to make the bumper match. The adjuster was mad at the shop, said that most times bumpers do not match the rest of the car because it is not metal. He explained this by showing us the rear bumper which was off color. We had not noticed this before, had we or the shop we would have accepted it.




I will agree that silver can be a difficult color to work with. I also will agree with the adjuster on the bumper paint match issue. Painting rubber versus painting metal will in most cases result in an off color. When vehicles are manufactured, exterior parts such as bumpers are painted seperately and in a completely different process than the rest of the car. In 99.9% of time, the bumper cover is never a "perfect" match compared to the rest of the vehicle. And as you mentioned with your rear bumper you understand this. Also Lori is correct, I never write to blend bumpers for this very reason.





Quote:
The alignment was off, due to the shop not being able to fix the frame. They sent it to another shop, and Acura dealership to fix the repair.




A classic example of why some shops selected by insurers can't repair or have inadequet equipment to repair some vehicles.





Quote:
I feel they did this on the cheap, but I am the one paying for it.




They did, and I would agree with you. I am very sorry.



Quote:
Right now, they have done everything to keep me from going to this other shop for the corrections because they said the shop wants to much.




It's not uncommon. Some insurers do this on a daily basis. However, no matter what they are required to honor the warranty on the repair and must correct the problems your satisfaction or at least return the vehicle to a prior accident state. Didn't they tell you in the begining that they would make it right or find someone who would?



Quote:
I agree that the shop has to get paid for things the other shop did. Geico disagrees. They want the car to return to their shop and then go and work out a deal with the shop that will fix the paint and other things.




They should, it costs double to do rework. I have been on the repair side and faced with this same situation. Either we fixed everything, including the other shops mistakes or we didn't do it period. Geico can disagree all they want, they now "own" this or the shop does. They have already irresponsibily spent your money to repair and did not return your vehicle to it's pre accident state. It's now on their dime or the shops dime to correct it.





Quote:
Trench, I am curious about my windshield after reading your message. They resealed this and it's not leaking now. What is wrong with a used glass, you stated dangerous?




You don't know where these windshields come from. In many cases, these windhields are stacked out side of a facility and bake in the sun. The can become warped and out of shape. A windshield is part of a vehicle's safety system. Sometimes, these windshields are pulled from vehicles that have been in an accident where airbag deployment has occured. The force from the airbag and the loss of cabin pressure has shown damage to the integrity of the glass. Some manufactures state if the glass remains intact after airbag deployment, the glass should be replaced. To much liability in used windshields. Above all else, this was replaced without your authorization, and was not part of your claim. Geico owes you a new windhsield, period end of story.



Quote:
Besides everything else, we don't know what we can do. Should we talk with a lawyer?




You may have to call a lawyer. Have you spoken to the the adjusters supervisor? Start there. Contact your state's Department of Insurance and file a claim. I know what I would do first thing if this happened to me. I would drop Geico like a bad habit.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:50 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I know what I would do first thing if this happened to me. I would drop Geico like a bad habit.




Yeah but look at all that money you can save by switching to Geico in the first place! Laughing Saving 15 percent or more doesn't look so good sometimes after the fact. Shocked


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