Dispute on Totaled value of Toyota corolla

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:47 pm   Post subject: Dispute on Totaled value of Toyota corolla  

My 1997 Toyota Corolla was in an accident recently in the Omaha, NE area (68128) and Progressive (my insurance company) "totaled" the car at $2, 520, which is far less than KBB value. This value supposedly includes all fees & taxes, and is still subject to my $250 deductible. This car has current KBB value of $3700.

We bought this car 2 years back from a local dealer for $4250 and in a months' time we had to spent $1750 for changing the transmission belt. I spent a lot on this car and finally according to Insurance people its valued only $2520.According to claim representative, this was totaled before as well which is an unknown fact to us. We had clean title from dealer and even Car fax didn't show that it was totaled. The surprising thing is that Progressive offered insurance quote based on a clean title. I don't know how would they change their records to double-totaled now when we are at receiving end.

We talked to the local dealer and he is still saying that our car was of clean title. At the same time, Progressive is going to send us report which shows it was salvaged. I do not know where to proceed further. I spent around $6000 on that car (excluding taxes) and the totaled value of $2520 can no way compensate that.

Please let me know how I can proceed further...or which is the best way to get the things cleared...



Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:20 am   Post subject:   

Ok, first, throw the Kelley book out, no carrier uses that....a months' time

Quote:
we had to spent $1750 for changing the transmission belt. I spent a lot on this car and finally according to Insurance people its valued only $2520.
This is considered basic maintence and would add no value to your vehicle...now had you not replaced it, then well it would be worth about 125.00...see my point, you expect a vehicle to have a working transmission...
Quote:
According to claim representative, this was totaled before as well which is an unknown fact to us. We had clean title from dealer and even Car fax didn't show that it was totaled
Let this be a warning to everyone reading Carfax does not show everything...I can just all but guarantee the dealer knew it... Rolling Eyes a prior total or salvage vehicle is easily worth a min. of 25% less...too bad you didn't check that title with the state's dmv, perhaps you could've got it for even less...if you paid 4250.00 two years ago, you got one heck of a deal, didn't you wonder why?
Quote:
The surprising thing is that Progressive offered insurance quote based on a clean title. I don't know how would they change their records to double-totaled now when we are at receiving end.
They didn't when you insured it you told them it had a clean title, they don't (don't ask me why, I don't know any carriers that do) run the VIN or title when insuring vehicles, they do run the drivers/insured's license...but then when ANY vehicle is totaled it is run thru and this is when your prior total showed up...happens all the time...
Quote:
We talked to the local dealer and he is still saying that our car was of clean title. At the same time, Progressive is going to send us report which shows it was salvaged
Check the VIN when you get the report, but I'll bet Progressive is correct...why on earth would your dealer now admit to selling you a salvaged vehicle? And what does Progressive gain, believe me a thousand or two one way or another means nothing to them...If you'd like I'll run a value for you, but need all options, is it a regular plain Corolla, a CE, DX? mileage, and ANY unrepaired prior damage, sunroof, ? power or manual, with air and auto or manual transmission?
Quote:
I spent around $6000 on that car (excluding taxes) and the totaled value of $2520 can no way compensate that
What you have spent on this vehicle (I'm sorry), has zero to do with what they owe you, they owe you the ACV (actual cash value).....
Quote:
Please let me know how I can proceed further...or which is the best way to get the things cleared...
If I were you I'd find out for sure if the dealership knew it was salvaged title, then if they did I'd go after them....(the dealership)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:41 am   Post subject:   

Hi msvarghese



Lori is right on with her comments. Bills for maintenance and repairs that were done to keep the car running are not part of the cars value.



Most insurers do not check the VIN for prior claims.



Hopefully you can prove the dealer knew about it - they may have bought it at an auction and did the repairs themselves. That would be too bad.



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 3:38 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
too bad you didn't check that title with the state's dmv




Can you explain how to do this. I thought that was what carfax did. Since I am now in the market for a car (depending what adjuster you talk to) and doubt I will be able to get a new one so I will need to do some checking. We all know dealers ALWAYS are 100% truthful in disclosing a cars history. Laughing



For example we looked at a 2006 cadillac escalade ESV platinum edition today ( if you want to run the value Lori, it has every option just click the all the above button). This SUV retailed for 76K it has 32,000 miles on it and they are selling it for $26,000. 50k loss over 2 yrs seems a bit odd to me but car fax didnt flash a red flag. But as mom always said a deal that sounds too good to be true 99.999% of the time has a catch. I realize with the price of gas as high as it is no one wants these big gas hogs but some of us with 6 people (and 1 car seat) to move around town and we cant weld 3 hondas together to save gas. So any in-site you can provide into getting a full report would be greatly apperciated.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:52 am   Post subject:   

Hi msvarghese, I empathize with you, but the insurance company is responsible to pay only what is due. The value of the car diminished the moment it rolls out of the showroom. Hence, you can't expect to receive the same amount. There are the wear-n-tear factors that influence the valuation of the car.



Whatever investment you have made on the car, unfortunately will not add to the current value of the car. The insurer will pay only the ACV of the vehicle and not the amount you have spent on acquiring it.



Lori is right, Carfax though the most trusted database on used car may not always provide all the information. It's unfortunate that you've ended-up in such a knot because of an untruthful dealer.



Regards,

Juanita

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:04 am   Post subject:   

Lori wrote:



Quote:
too bad you didn't check that title with the state's dmv




Rick wrote:



Quote:
Can you explain how to do this.




Rick, you can check the history of the vehicle in the DMV site with the help of the following url:



http://www.dmv.org/vehicle-history.php



Hope it helps!
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:46 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Can you explain how to do this. I thought that was what carfax did.
Unfortunately for the public, and fortunately for carfax, that's what a lot of people think! Evil or Very Mad Ticks me off frankly....their fine print says, 'well this may not be ALL the info on this VIN' yeah, well then what are the customers paying for 'partial information'? It's so irritating...Contact your states DMV, you can do title searches, some you can do on the computer from their websites...not sure if all states charge a fee, but if so it'll be less than a carfax! Twisted Evil Course it won't show wrecks, but will show title status...since the vehicle went into production....



Rick on your escalade, I need to know which one...CTS-DTS, just ESCALADE, SRX-STS-XLR and V6 OR V8, first then I'd be happy to give you a value...if it the plain ('plain' and escalade, sound funny together!)...Escalade V8 ESV Plat. WITH all options and 36k miles it's retail is 36,475.00....remember they are having to give away big gas eaters right now! That's still about 10k less that it should be...I'd ALWAYS contact prior owners and check with the registering state, to run a VIN check. I'd also have someone I know and trust check it out ( you have no idea how many time's I've been ''that'' friend Rolling EyesWink )..if all's ok, then buy that puppy and enjoy!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:25 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Let this be a warning to everyone reading Carfax does not show everything...I can just all but guarantee the dealer knew it... a prior total or salvage vehicle is easily worth a min. of 25% less...too bad you didn't check that title with the state's dmv, perhaps you could've got it for even less...if you paid 4250.00 two years ago, you got one heck of a deal, didn't you wonder why?




I believe someone just stated that an accident history has a bearing on the post loss value of a vehicle. Hmmm. That sound a lot like diminishment of value. So if a vehicle had a substantial amount of damage and even if it did not total, it could be assumed that the accident history makes it worth a minimum of 25% less. That is almost precisely what an independent survey of vehicle owners determined.



What this poster needed was a pre-purchase inspection by a repair expert and they could have warned the prospective buyer of obvious flaws and previous repairs. I have saved many a prospective buyer from purchasing a cheaply repaired or poorly repaired vehicle and an unsafe vehicle by merely making a limited free visual inspection. Most bodyshops would inspect a pre purchase vehicle for their good customers if asked.



Do not be surprised in the very near future that shop owners may be required to report estimates of damage to a governing entity or even sell that information to companies such as car fax which make a nice living from re-selling potential vehicle owners that very same information.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:31 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
I believe someone just stated that an accident history has a bearing on the post loss value of a vehicle. Hmmm.
Read it again Mike, 'someone' said a prior TOTAL LOSS/SALVAGE TITLE has a bearing on a vehicles value...duh...HUGE difference... What happen to that 'promise' you had, had enough of us, and were never coming back? Rolling EyesLaughingLaughing Same old Mike make things up that aren't even in the post.... Rolling Eyes
Quote:
So if a vehicle had a substantial amount of damage and even if it did not total, it could be assumed that the accident history makes it worth a minimum of 25% less.
It certainly ''could'' be assumed, (and we all know what happens when you "assume"), if you can't read, or have an agenda of your own!!! But no Mike, IT'S not the SAME..AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!.GEEEEEEEEEZE, how on earth could anyone EVEN you stretch it to mean that????????????
Quote:
What this poster needed was a pre-purchase inspection by a repair expert and they could have warned the prospective buyer of obvious flaws and previous repairs.
Yeah Mike, like you right? What would you charge her for that about 200 bucks? Sure why not do that instead of asking a friend, or spending a max of maybe 20 bucks at the DMV? Rolling Eyes Who can spell Mike's personal (financial) A-G-E-N-D-A?
Quote:
or even sell that information to companies such as car fax which make a nice living from re-selling potential vehicle owners that very same information.
Rolling Eyes Here we go another way to make money...after all carfax sure did their job this time huh.......just ask the OP.......


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:45 pm   Post subject:   

Still the same ole sweet talking gal I see! All that bitter vindictive spiteful talk is just something they teach you in insurance adjusting school on how to leverage the upper hand in claims handling?



Quote:
What happen to that 'promise' you had, had enough of us, and were never coming back? Same old Mike make things up that aren't even in the post....




I never said I would completely leave, I said I would be back after Progressive insurance lost their case against Mr Cocarro, which they did. Ms Eversmen did a fine job of pointing out many things to the jury about abusive insurer practices.



Quote:
Quote:

So if a vehicle had a substantial amount of damage and even if it did not total, it could be assumed that the accident history makes it worth a minimum of 25% less.

It certainly ''could'' be assumed, (and we all know what happens when you "assume"), if you can't read, or have an agenda of your own!!! But no Mike, IT'S not the SAME..AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!.GEEEEEEEEEZE, how on earth could anyone EVEN you stretch it to mean that???????????? Quote:




I suppose that 4250 dollar diminished value settlement that a client of mine received last week from one of the top three insurers was just something that she assumed she was owed when she got the check.



Quote:
Quote:

What this poster needed was a pre-purchase inspection by a repair expert and they could have warned the prospective buyer of obvious flaws and previous repairs.

Yeah Mike, like you right? What would you charge her for that about 200 bucks? Sure why not do that instead of asking a friend, or spending a max of maybe 20 bucks at the DMV? Who can spell Mike's personal (financial) A-G-E-N-D-A? Quote:

or even sell that information to companies such as car fax which make a nice living from re-selling potential vehicle owners that very same information.

Here we go another way to make money...after all carfax sure did their job this time huh.......just ask the OP.......




Proof that Lori doesn't read before she writes and lets her anger cloud her judgement.



I wrote



Quote:
I have saved many a prospective buyer from purchasing a cheaply repaired or poorly repaired vehicle and an unsafe vehicle by merely making a limited free visual inspection.




You know Lori, there are some posters that appreciate my advice and pm me for it or email me. You should get over it. You only proved my point when I told one poster I would respond only in a private message to him because you would simply reply with agitation and distortion to anything I post.



What do they call what they pay you for your services? Payroll? Or do you simply work for free and out of the goodness of service to an employer? Like Carfax doesn't pay insurers for their information. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:38 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Still the same ole sweet talking gal I see!
Only with you Mike you tend to bring out that 'sweet' side of me....
Quote:
I suppose that 4250 dollar diminished value settlement that a client of mine received last week from one of the top three insurers was just something that she assumed she was owed when she got the check
Was it a prior total Mike with a salvage title? Cause THAT is what we were discussing......no it wasn't ? That's just what I thought... Rolling Eyes
Quote:
What do they call what they pay you for your services? Payroll? Or do you simply work for free and out of the goodness of service to an employer?
Nope they pay me Mike, by the month, think they call that salaried, Rolling Eyes difference between you and I is that I didn't hide (for months) one of my 'side line' jobs, while preaching over and over that 'services' benefits, including multiple times telling posters to 'google' it...Don't think anyone hear would say that I've ever concealed the fact that I'm an adjuster paid by an insurance company Mike...once again if you can't see the difference between the two...same as above...big difference between presumed diminished value on a repair and a total loss!


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:06 pm   Post subject:   

Most insurance policies have an arbitration clause wherein you both hire an independant appraiser and the appraisals are submitted to a referee. This may be an option.



What State are you in? Our State clearly has salvage title stamped on the title if the vehicle was previously deemed a total loss and then rebuilt and returned back to service.



Check the Auto Trader and clip ads of comparable vehicles. Send your adjuster a demand letter along with the clippings and advise them how much you want to settle the loss for. Total losses are completely negociable and the first offer is always the lowest in the "range" given by the supervisor. Sharpen your negociation skills and do everything in writing as opposed to telephone negociation. Good luck and remember that the one who can hold out the longest usually wins the battle. An adjusters worth is determined by how many files they can close in a month. You can use that to your advantage if you like. It would not be unusual to get a favorable settlement negociated on the last few days of the month as that when the adjusters compile their closing logs......hint hint.....

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:43 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
difference between you and I is that I didn't hide (for months) one of my 'side line' jobs, while preaching over and over that 'services' benefits, including multiple times telling posters to 'google' it...Don't think anyone hear would say that I've ever concealed the fact that I'm an adjuster paid by an insurance company Mike...once again if you can't see the difference between the two...same as above...big difference between presumed diminished value on a repair and a total loss!






Hide? You would certainly like to make it appear that was an underlying motive since it serves your purpose to discredit anyone that disagrees with you.



I do not and did not solicit diminished value referals from this site, I make no bones about the fact that I provide that service for people seeking it locally only. I recommend vehicle owners consider the option and seek counsel in their area. You continue to distort the facts as usual. It is, in fact, less than 3 percent of my business. Sorry that a reputable post repair business that aids consumers to total compensation sticks in your crawl. If insurers paid for quality repairs and did their own post repair inspections to ensure vehicle owners are made whole instead of looking for cheap fast repairs, the motoring public that suffers damage due to the negligence of others would never even remotely consider seeking DV or have the perception that a wrecked car is not the quality and value of one that has never been damaged. But then, the motoring public is the one that perceives or has came to the conclusion that their vehicles with damage histories are worth less than those that have none.



I have seen vehicles that were totals that were certainly repaired to a higher standard than many repaired at insurance preferred shops that were not total losses. It's not so much that the prior salvage bothers people, they just do not feel they should have to pay as much for a vehicle that has any accident history, totaled or not. I tend to agree with the majority of the driving public. Your allegiance to your industry clouds your perspective.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:47 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Hide? You would certainly like to make it appear that was an underlying motive since it serves your purpose to discredit anyone that disagrees with you.
Who besides you?
Quote:
I make no bones about the fact that I provide that service for people seeking it locally only
yeah, AFTER I googled it and found out and confronted you about it...prior to that NOT ONE MENTION OF IT...find the thread where YOU came forward and stated that...you won't cause you didn't! You FINALLY admitted it, after, well you were busted...and that took a day or so as I recall...
Quote:
Sorry that a reputable post repair business that aids consumers to total compensation sticks in your crawl.
It doesn't stick in my crawl at all in fact I think it sounds like a good side line for someone like you, what sticks in my crawl is your inital deception....that I believe would still be going on had I not exposed you...
Quote:
If insurers paid for quality repairs and did their own post repair inspections to ensure vehicle owners are made whole instead of looking for cheap fast repairs
Maybe you should look back at your prior post there, Mr. Diminished value expert....you have said that regardless of the parts used, and the repair quality (even your repairs Shocked ) these vehicles have still suffered dv claims...so that really has nothing to do with it in your opinion...I'll agree and have always agreed a crappy repair reduces value of a vehicle, but who's fault is that? When I say crappy repair I mean the quality of the work...not the parts used....
Quote:
But then, the motoring public is the one that perceives or has came to the conclusion that their vehicles with damage histories are worth less than those that have none
For the millionth time it's a perception, and if body shop owners of all people want to perpetuate the perception that they cannot repair a vehicle without causing dv...well what can I say?
Quote:
I have seen vehicles that were totals that were certainly repaired to a higher standard than many repaired at insurance preferred shops that were not total losses. It's not so much that the prior salvage bothers people, they just do not feel they should have to pay as much for a vehicle that has any accident history, totaled or not. I tend to agree with the majority of the driving public
I agree with you that I too have seen (and driven) many well rebuilt totals...however...I disagree that they are not worth less especially in the public eye...the mere meaning of total in most states says that 80% or more of the vehicles ACV was damaged, that is a lot of damage to people that don't understand collision repair...


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:57 am   Post subject:   

900500, you must work for a different company(s) than I have...



Quote:
Total losses are completely negociable and the first offer is always the lowest in the "range" given by the supervisor.
I have no 'range' given by a supervisor on physcial damage claims...ever..bi's sure, pd never...and a supervisor is not involved at all unless there is an issue......
Quote:
An adjusters worth is determined by how many files they can close in a month. You can use that to your advantage if you like. It would not be unusual to get a favorable settlement negociated on the last few days of the month as that when the adjusters compile their closing logs......hint hint.....
While I will agree the only good claim is a closed claim, and that of course there are a ga-zillion stats, I disagree that an adjusters worth is determined by their closing ratio, also no month end closing logs at the companies I've worked for....does the adjuster want to close it...damn skippy, but I think you've put more emphasis on that than will hold up, however, good ploy and worth a try I guess, if the company the OP is dealing with is so bent.


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