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 Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:34 pm Post subject: Car Insurance - attempting denying claim |
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Hello there,
I am having trouble with my insurance provider. I recently got in an accident at 4am after picking a buddy up from the bar. They are attempting to deny my claim firstly because, it was late at night, I just came from a bar, and I left the scene because my car was driveable. that is, I did not hit and run, but I did not contact police because it wasnt serious enough. No one was hurt and the cars were driveable. Anyhow, now they are attempting to say that I was drunk, and not a graduate student working ultra late. What can I do? There is absolutely no physical proof of anything or any reason to not settle my claim.
I spoke with the police 4 hours after the accident, because I had been notified to do so and they did not charge me with any wrong doing.
I should be getting my car back, correct?
Your advise is much appreciated.
regards, |
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blairvision
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| Posted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Someone has incorrect information. If they are indeed trying to deny the claim because you were drunk, ask them in the policy where this exclusion is located. Insurance companies pay these claims all of the time. Insurance policies don't contain this exclusion as it's against public policy (that is, it penalizes the innocent person who was hit by the drunk driver, not the drunk driver). Also, what proof do they have that you were drunk? They need proof to even try to deny the claim for this.
I'm betting this is not the reason they are looking at possibly denying the claim.
Also, it's not a denial until they send the denial in writing.
Your car "back"...? Who took it? |
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tcope
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | that is, I did not hit and run, but I did not contact police because it wasnt serious enough. |
No matter how trivial an accident, you should always inform the police. You need to tackle these in proper legal terms.
| Quote: | | Anyhow, now they are attempting to say that I was drunk, |
And how are they intending to prove this? They need proof to substantiate what they claim.
Tcope when the OP says
| Quote: | | They are attempting to deny my claim firstly because, it was late at night, I just came from a bar, and I left the scene because my car was driveable. |
Should this be mentioned in the policy somewhere that no claim will be entertained if the accident occurred late at night? Could the OP challenge this denial?
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sil
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Normally, accidents caused while driving under influence are covered by the auto insurers. I would go with Tcope, they must state the reason of denial in writing. And until you receive the claim denial letter its only a possibility. I'd suggest that you read the policy document carefully to check whether or not there is 'drunk driving' exclusion.
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JeremyHolter
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | They are attempting to deny my claim firstly because, it was late at night, |
Impossible unless you have some restriction that you cannot drive at night and even then it would be covered...
| Quote: | | I just came from a bar, and I left the scene because my car was driveable. |
Bad excuse, and fouled reasoning...you'd had a drink...and didn't want a dui, i get that...but your carrier can still not deny the claim unless your policy specifically says it can...and I've never seen one that did... | Quote: | | that is, I did not hit and run |
If you hit a car, then leave the scene of the accident even if there is no damage...that by definition IS a hit and run..., | Quote: | | but I did not contact police because it wasnt serious enough. |
Come one honey not 'serious enough'? What's that? and who decides...you know you should've you screwed up, do yourself a favor don't do it again...still no reason for your carrier to deny the claim... | Quote: | | No one was hurt and the cars were driveable |
Did you talk to the owner of the other vehicle at the time of the accident? . | Quote: | | Anyhow, now they are attempting to say that I was drunk |
Well, I'd figure you'd been drinking too regardless of what you said, but still would have to honor/pay the claim.. | Quote: | | I should be getting my car back, correct? |
From where? Where is your car that was driveable, and not seriously hurt?
I'm in agreement with the other posters, unless your policy specifically says something to the contrary they cannot deny this claim..Are you talking with an agent or an adjuster? How long ago did this happen and when did you report it to your carrier? Have they addressed the damage to the vehicle you hit? What state are you in and what company is this...and again as T said, ALL denials must be in writing and explain the exact reason for the denial..
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Lori
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| When your ever in an accident please dont leave the scene and contact the police so you can get your statment and correct paperwork for insurance. Who took the car? And coming from a bar if they dont have proof they cannot just say your drunk they must have proof and information. |
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GarySnober
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| I normally don't like to give advise on the obvious choice after an accident. In your case I think it would be very wise to contact an attorney for help. I know this may cost a lot more money than normal. You just don't have many other options. Your insurance company is or will deny your claim based on the information you posted in the forum and by what you said, you have nothing to hide and you have said that you did no wrong doing. If this is the case, then your attorney will most likely be able to get all the damages paid by your insurance company. |
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justong
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:08 pm Post subject: replies |
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Thank you all for your brisk replies. Firstly to answer most questions I will state that my car was taken by the insurance agency. it is simply sitting in their yard while is depreciates. As well, there is not clause stating denying a claim based on late driving however, they say that they assume drivers would only be drunk at that time essentially. They do not have proof at all, and I cannot stress enough how I was not intoxicated. I was unable to locate the owner of the vehilce at night because it was in front of an apparetment building, I instead located them 4 hours later, during daytime hours. I took down all necessary information and reported the accident to the police and insurance adjusters at that time. I understand that they can somewhat assume things, but wow, it is an enormous pain in the ass. Regardless, this is a provincial insurance agency in Canada and they have significant power. As for the fact that I left the scene after, I know I know. However it is common knowledge in my province that you can drive away from an accident if no one was injured, and the cars are driveable. I should have definately called the police immediately though, I did screw up. But I am glad to hear that this is no reason to deny a claim. I simply cannot afford to have this happen. They have not denied it yet, but they have went to special investigations and now Ive hired a lawyer and it is costing a lot already. I just wish it would get resolved without anymore stress.
Thank you all for your responses, they are much appreciated and any other information you might have is also appreciated.
Regards, |
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blairvision
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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I'm trying to read between the lines and fill in the missing information...
I'm guessing that they are no denying the claim... they are investigating the claim/accident. I have no doubt that they are looking into this matter because your story is not adding up and/or it's at least suspicious. The other vehicle was parked at the time... how is it that you accidently hit a parked car while driving late at night... leaving a bar? I'm also guessing you did not leave a note? If you could not find the owner you should have called the police. They come out, run the tag and notify the owner. You did not do this and instead drove away. Now it's a hit and run... even if you went back the next day. So we have you hitting a parked vehicle late at night after leaving a bar and being guilty of a hit and run accident. Wonder why your insurance is suspicious? All of these things add up to someone DUI.
| Quote: | | I will state that my car was taken by the insurance agency. it is simply sitting in their yard while is depreciates |
Why do they have your car? They usually don't take it unless it's a total loss. Is this the case? If so, it's not like you bumped into a parked vehicle... you probably slammed into it. What to know why this usually happens? See above. If they have your vehicle you would have needed to allow them to obtain it. They can't just show up and take it and I doubt that happened.
| Quote: | | I instead located them 4 hours later, during daytime hours. |
I had to laugh a little at this one. It was only 4 hours until day light? So it was around the bars closing time when the accident happened? | Quote: | | They have not denied it yet, but they have went to special investigations and now Ive hired a lawyer and it is costing a lot already. |
I don't see why you would do this. If the claim is not denied then why pay an attorney? If it's denied you could then hire an attorney. An attorney is not going to change anything at this point in time. The insurance company needs to be moving forward with the disposition of the claim while they investigate but if they are simply investigating to determine if there is more to the story then it really should not delay the claim very long. I can think of very few reasons that would lead to a denial (really off hand I can't think of any). So while they may want to investigate to determine the future status of your policy, I don't think they would be denying the claim.
(Personally I have a good way to determine if all that you mention is true. I'd get a recorded interview to confirm a few things and then obtain some documentation to confirm what you said was correct. If not, I'd pay the claim and send in a request to have the policy non-renewed. But the claim gets paid anyway.) |
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tcope
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: another reply |
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hello to the last repsonder.
I do understand where they are coming from. However, if there is no proof, then they simply cannot pursue this. The police did not charge me because my story was obviously sound when they spoke to me 4 hours after the accident. I am assuming that if I was drunk, it still would have been fairly visible by that time. I did hit a parked car, it was late, I did pick up a friend from the bar, and I did not leave a note because I had no way to. I did stay there for like 15 mins thinking someone would come out. They did not however so I thought I would just leave. Please understand that since it was my first time with the airbags going off I was in shock and did not act appropriately. I did memorize the plate number, and the time it happened, drove home and dealt with it four hours later as mentioned.
I know it sounds fishy, but it simply is not. The curb I ran over sending me into a car, firstly rose out of the ground so it is easy to drive onto. Secondly, winter just ended so I had winter studded tires on dry pavement, and thirdly there was an inch of gravel beside the curb. When I moved my wheel off the curb that had risen out of the ground, my wheels spun, then caught and threw me into a car. I personally understand where the insurance company is coming from, but really, accidents happen. It is not the clients responsibility to prove innocence, it is the insurance firms responsibility to attempt to prove guilt. Since there is not proof of any wrong doing, would this be a file that should be approved for covereage? As well, would this be considered harassement since there is not proof of any wrong doing? I did nothing wrong, I can assure you all of this. I do not know what to do.
I just hired a lawyer because I am under significant stress and time restrictions as I am working full time, and doing my masters degree which is why I was up that late in the first place (term paper time).
Anyhow, I dont know what to do.
This is unfortunate to say the least.
but thank you all for your repsonses. |
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blairvision
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| Posted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I know it sounds fishy, but it simply is not. |
I read the information you posted and to be honest... _Yes_ it is!
Why did you loose control of your vehicle and go up over the curb? Airbags deploy only in certainly types of accidents. Usually the front end needs to hit something and the vehicle needs to decelerate greatly and quickly before they will go off. So what did you hit and you must have been going pretty fast. You then tried to drive off the curb and ran into the other person's vehicle? Most people when they just ran their car into something hard enough to deploy the air bags would call a tow truck or at least take it _real_ slow when trying to get their car off the curb. In that you hit someone else's parked car while doing this is again, "fishy".
Technically, you just had _two_ accidents.
| Quote: | | The police did not charge me because my story was obviously sound when they spoke to me 4 hours after the accident. |
The police could have charged you with hit and run. It just appears that they used their discretion and did not. Also, they could not charge you with DUI as they had no proof what your state was at the time of the accident. Lacking enough proof to charge you with something or simply choosing not to charge you does not mean you did nothing wrong.
| Quote: | | I did nothing wrong, I can assure you all of this. |
You mean besides the hit and run and the other "odd" behavior?
My guess is that they will continue to investigate this matter in order to confirm what really happen in the accidents and then most likely pay the claim. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However it is common knowledge in my province that you can drive away from an accident if no one was injured, and the cars are driveable. |
Okay, the insurance laws surely differ between the countries.
However, even though we assume that the OP was drunk, the insurance company still can’t deny the claim, which all the posters have made clear. Then, why sending the claim to the SIU? |
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kelvin
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | However it is common knowledge in my province that you can drive away from an accident if no one was injured, and the cars are driveable. |
Nope.... still required to exchange information which was not done. | Quote: | | Then, why sending the claim to the SIU? |
If they suspect the insured is not telling the truth about the accident they may not really know what happened. If they don't know what happened, they can't be sure it's covered. Also, regardless of coverage, they may want SIU to investigate to determine if the policy should be non-renewed. I think some _states_ allow the insurance company to lower the policy limits to the minimum if the driver is DUI (I'm not 100% sure about this though). Bottom line is if they can't be sure what happened, they are going to look at the claim very hard before paying it. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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While it's clear you have (at best) a 'fishy' story...leaving a bar, hit a curb and parked car, leave the scene wait FOUR hours to report it, (why not as soon as you got home? the assumption will be you needed to sober up), also I've tried to find info re: Canadian law regarding both leaving the scene of an accident, and dui...both are VERY VERY bad in Canada, in fact I found some information (see below) that states they can deny coverage for dui...
| Quote: | | If you are drunk driving, you are driving illegally and under illegal circumstances. When you are in this situation, your insurance policy no longer covers you. |
Cost of Drinking & Driving
| Quote: | Lose your licence, car, job, or life. Drunk drivers injure 190 Canadians, killing 4 daily, and impacting the lives of 70,000 annually,
If you’re convicted of being impaired, your insurance won’t cover damage to your car and most injuries |
Now whether or not there HAS to be a conviction, I don't know...further information I found states that each provence has it's own 'rules' basically...Canada also has something they call 'impaired driving' which is almost as bad as DUI one definition of impaired driving is leaving the accident scene...Canada is very clear on what you have to do after an accident, (call police IMMEDIATELY, if no one there MUST leave all your information etc...come on you could've went back into the bar for paper and pen  )..So it very well may be that you can be denied coverage based on your actions...
You didn't answer a couple of questions, that we (I atleast  ) don't understand...first...how is it that your car is even at your ins agents? How did it get there and why won't the let it go? Or is it now non-driveable?
How long after this accident did you contact your insurance company? Have you heard anything from the poor vehicle owner you hit? Have you actually got your policy out and read it regarding what do after an accident? There will be some language in that policy regarding what you must do, and perhaps the penalitys for not doing so..
| Quote: | Establishing an Insurance Claim according to Canada Auto Insurance Law
When a car accident take place due to collision, then the first thing the policy holder needs to do is to intimate the auto insurance company as soon as possible. Some Auto Insurance company of Canada even fixes a definite period for intimation like within seven days of accident and like that.
To establish an Insurance Claim under a certain auto insurance policy, Police Reporting of the accident is a must. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Fri May 01, 2009 2:56 pm Post subject: ok |
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Wow,
so some of you now are saying my story is fishy at the least. I understand where you are all coming from, however I can assure you I was not intoxicated and this is the kind of thought process that concerns me. I do understand that assumptions are made on behalf of insurance firms, however is this reasonable? If I get denied, it is a total choke of justice. I wish I could explain the situation in more detail. I guess one thing I could add is that, I wasnt at a bar. I picked a friend up frm it (as if it matters), additionally, this bar was exceptionally far from the accident scene, therefore I was seriously unable to leave information. The best I could do is take information and report it. I reported my accident to the insurance agency 4 hours after the accident at the same time I reported it to police. I understand this could be seen as deceptive, but it isnt, in that I was in shock and as noted in another post, four hours is not nearly enough to potentially "sober up". Any trained officer would have easily noticed something about a person who was apparently intoxicated enough to crash there car, only a few hours previous. When I met with them, they beleived me after some explaining. Now, in addition to that last point, if the police didnt charge me with any legal wrong doing, then how does the insurance agent figure they can charge me? I did no wrong. I made a mistake, but did not act illegally. As for why my car is at the insurance agent, they claim it is a total loss, which it isnt. But that is why it is there. I have talked to the woman who's cars I hit and she is fine for now. I had agreed to help her pay for a newer car if she didnt get enough for hers but it seems I may not have to do that.
Anyhow, I tahnk you all sincerely for your information on this. Although some of you now have dobts about my accident that is fine. I know I am not guilty of any crime. It was a ridiculous mistake, an accident as they are refererd to and I just hope t get it resolved.
I know that since they cannot be sure what happened it might take time on my claim, however there is no way they do this with all late night accidents. How could they ever be sure of what did or didnt cause an accident ever without proof. They essentially would be holding policies under bad faith because they cant close them due to "not knowing" cause. (???)
I dont know what to think. All I know is that I screwed up and now it is costing me. I wish it had never happened.
Thank you all! |
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blairvision
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