by Joey Sunday » Sun Apr 26, 2009 08:37 pm
Legal question.
My daughter is 17 with a full PA drivers license.
Her best friend was out of town. The best friend has a car - not hers, but its one of her parents, but she drives it all the time. Friend says to my kid, "you can borrow my car this weekend if you want, I'm out of town". I have no knowledge of this, neither does the other parents.
Well, my kid borrows the car, picks up a friend, and gets into an accident at a dangerous intersection. Both cars are totalled - the other cars driver and passenger request to go to the hospital. My kid and her friend decline, they were ok. No tickets were issued.
After thanking God everyone is ok, I call my insurance agent. He says that the insurance follows the vehicle, not the driver, so unfortunately, its up to BFF's dad to deal with all this. I call him and we have a cordial talk - he's really not sounding too upset, more concerned about the kids being ok.
Once I get my kid home, I give her the hug, the tears flow from her, then she gets the lecture. Grounded till forever and don't even think about driving again for at least 6 months. Not letting us know she's driving someone else's car? WTF was she thinking?
A day later, I'm talking to the dad again. I tell him about the insurance issue and I'll cover any deductible on his policy. He's still cool about it, his biggest worry now is being without the car. So I'm telling him that he needs to check his insurance, it should cover rentals, but if it doesn't, I'll take care of it. He says he has collision, which should cover the cost of the vehicle - a 98 Honda with 110K.
Where it gets sticky is - technically, the car isn't his daughters, she's just listed as a secondary driver. So technically, she doesn't have the right to say who drives the car. It would fall on the dad, who obviously wouldn't let anyone else drive the car. We haven't discussed this issue yet, we're still waiting for the insurance offices to open Monday. Where it gets stickier is my kid has had her license for only two months - she was covered under our policy when she had her permit, but once she became a full fledged PA driver, it would increase our insurance $100/month. She was saving up for it at the time of the accident - until she was able to pay her insurance, we weren't putting her on our policy. So I'm not even sure she would be covered under ours.
I'm trying to be as cordial as I can about this. Unfortunately, this looks like its not going to go away easy. The thing that is getting to me is - the dad isn't holding his daughter in any way responsible for lending out the family car. I ground the shit out of my kid, yet BFF gets off and was out last night partying. If my kid pulled that stunt, I'd kill her.
Am I screwed?
My daughter is 17 with a full PA drivers license.
Her best friend was out of town. The best friend has a car - not hers, but its one of her parents, but she drives it all the time. Friend says to my kid, "you can borrow my car this weekend if you want, I'm out of town". I have no knowledge of this, neither does the other parents.
Well, my kid borrows the car, picks up a friend, and gets into an accident at a dangerous intersection. Both cars are totalled - the other cars driver and passenger request to go to the hospital. My kid and her friend decline, they were ok. No tickets were issued.
After thanking God everyone is ok, I call my insurance agent. He says that the insurance follows the vehicle, not the driver, so unfortunately, its up to BFF's dad to deal with all this. I call him and we have a cordial talk - he's really not sounding too upset, more concerned about the kids being ok.
Once I get my kid home, I give her the hug, the tears flow from her, then she gets the lecture. Grounded till forever and don't even think about driving again for at least 6 months. Not letting us know she's driving someone else's car? WTF was she thinking?
A day later, I'm talking to the dad again. I tell him about the insurance issue and I'll cover any deductible on his policy. He's still cool about it, his biggest worry now is being without the car. So I'm telling him that he needs to check his insurance, it should cover rentals, but if it doesn't, I'll take care of it. He says he has collision, which should cover the cost of the vehicle - a 98 Honda with 110K.
Where it gets sticky is - technically, the car isn't his daughters, she's just listed as a secondary driver. So technically, she doesn't have the right to say who drives the car. It would fall on the dad, who obviously wouldn't let anyone else drive the car. We haven't discussed this issue yet, we're still waiting for the insurance offices to open Monday. Where it gets stickier is my kid has had her license for only two months - she was covered under our policy when she had her permit, but once she became a full fledged PA driver, it would increase our insurance $100/month. She was saving up for it at the time of the accident - until she was able to pay her insurance, we weren't putting her on our policy. So I'm not even sure she would be covered under ours.
I'm trying to be as cordial as I can about this. Unfortunately, this looks like its not going to go away easy. The thing that is getting to me is - the dad isn't holding his daughter in any way responsible for lending out the family car. I ground the shit out of my kid, yet BFF gets off and was out last night partying. If my kid pulled that stunt, I'd kill her.
Am I screwed?
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 04:01 am Post Subject:
Kelvin - as for sticking to the truth - the insurance company has recorded statements from both kids involved, and kid admits giving permissible use.
Okay, that's certainly a good news for you. :)
By the way, what about the other driver involved in the accident? I guess he was injured in it. Has he filed claim too?
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 04:21 am Post Subject:
Actually, the thing I read was in google books, so you may be right, laws could vary by state. I have been assured by my agent that damages exceeding THEIR policy fall upon mine. However, I know for a fact that the collision damages will fall within their policy.
The other party was checked out at the hospital and released, however, we have no idea if any claim was filed. I'm sure that one is brewing somewhere.
I'm from PA.
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:44 pm Post Subject:
There will be an injury claim filed, but PA is different since you have to choose when buying your insurance whether you give up your right to sue or not...depends on what this person chose.
I'd not worry about it though, sounds like a small BI claim at any rate (checked and released) so very doubtful it would exceed mom and dad's bi limits.
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 05:34 pm Post Subject: Update
Ok, so now I get a call from an agent for the dad's policy, stating although she was given permissible use by the girl, the girl is not a named insurant (?) on the policy. I ask, "so, does that mean she wasn't on the policy?" He states that yes, she is on the policy but just because she is listed, does NOT give her the right to lend out the car since she is not the owner.
Whats odd is every insurance person I've talked since this all went down - all agreed that if someone on the policy gives permission, the car would be covered. So now it looks like they're looking to go after MY insurance.
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 09:32 pm Post Subject:
Ok, so now I get a call from an agent for the dad's policy, stating although she was given permissible use by the girl, the girl is not a named insurant (?) on the policy. I ask, "so, does that mean she wasn't on the policy?" He states that yes, she is on the policy but just because she is listed, does NOT give her the right to lend out the car since she is not the owner.
Ok...the top of my freakin' head just exploded!!! :twisted: This agent has ABSOLUTELY no business in this claim PERIOD...(hasn't it already been settled anyway?)...You seriously JUST got a call from this agent? Might want to call him back ask him if he's a licensed claim adjuster ? (better make sure your state licenses adjusters first)..., and call him on it if he ''says'' he does get his license number (so we can check)...at either rate tell him if he calls you one more time, you will contact the Dept of Ins in your state and file a personal complaint against him...after that you'll march your happy butt to the court house and get a peace bond against him...I'd have his a** for supper if he tried this with me..I cannot believe his gawl.... :x his claims dept might want to know this too...tell me first what is the name of dad's insurance company ? (i want to figure out if he's a captive or independent agent)..oh my gosh...I'm seriously bowling, I'd love to get ahold of this idiot...
So now it looks like they're looking to go after MY insurance.
SAYS WHO? The freakin' agent? He hasn't got authority to do crap! Let us know for sure this was an agent NOT an adjuster..and what else this moron said.Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 09:37 pm Post Subject: Sorry
It was an adjuster.
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 09:42 pm Post Subject:
It was an adjuster.
Thanks for the quick response, thought I was gonna have to take a 'nitro'....Their wrong (IMO)...they need to send a letter of denial which will/should quote EXACTLY where in the policy it says this...you need to turn it in to your carrier and let them start their investigation, I still think it will flop back to them..I've paid probably 100 claims like this in my 20 plus years...all of them...unless your state has some weird wording, I don't see how they'll get out of it and frankly surprised it has taken so long to make the decision....did they say anything else?Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 09:56 pm Post Subject:
Well, he wanted as much info from me as possible, which I declined. Information such as, was my kid insured on MY policy at the time of the accident, my policy number...the only thing I confirmed for him at the time was my mailing address and who my insurance company is. I called my agent who said, "lets sit on this and see what happens".
He said he'll just call my company and take it from there, and I should be getting something in the mail. But I wrote down his saying that the teen wasn't a "named insurant". I told him I thought it odd, everything I read online pointed to insurance following the car and permissible use. He said not quite according to the policy they had, then proceeded to give me a claim number and his phone number if I had any more questions.
Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:05 pm Post Subject:
As long as you've let your agent know then your 'company' knows...make sure you are making notes of all your phone calls etc...(dates, times who you talked to etc)...
"named insurant".
I'm sure he said, 'named insured'..He said not quite according to the policy they had, then proceeded to give me a claim number and his phone number if I had any more questions
Call him back and tell him to send you a formal denial including copies of the parts of the policy that allow him to deny your daughter as an insured driver of this car...(which is what she was when BFE gave her permission)Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 10:15 pm Post Subject:
I just called, seems its past hours now (6PM here), the earliest I'll get a hold of him is Tuesday now. He did tell me before that he was confirming my address to send me information, though, so we'll see what next week brings.
Thanks for all your help, Lori. Looks like this will be a slugfest between the insurance companies.
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