If the insurance adjuster authorized the repairs to my vehicle and I did not should I have to pay the $500 deductible?
Total Comments: 33
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 01:14 am Post Subject: insurance
I don't balme you for being mad......I would, too. After you talk to them, please give me an 'update'. I would like to know what's going on.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:46 am Post Subject:
Days, sounds to me like the shop is the one that screwed this one up..
You hand the shop your car...shop should've at that time got an authorization for repair (or atleast tear down)...they then proceed to repair your car KNOWING they have no authorization...
Again, I ask you WHEN (what day) did you drop off your car? When (what day) did you find out they were repairing it? When you found this out did you say, STOP NOW! Or tell them they could finish? Since you took the car to this shop I assume this is/was the shop of YOUR choice right? Would you not have repaired it? What was your plan if not to (ultimately) repair the vehicle at this shop?
RE: the adjuster...is this adjuster a 'company' adjuster or an independent adjuster? meaning does he work for your insurance company (employed only by them) or independently work for several as (maybe) an appraiser? There could be a big difference in that...Who is your carrier, and who looked at your vehicle (estimated the damage)? Has your carrier issued payment for this damage to the shop? What did the shop say when you told them you did not give anybody permission to fix your car?
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 02:06 pm Post Subject:
I took the car there on a Monday, called on Thursday the adjuster still had not come over to look at it. I had to call him that day to see when he was planning to go over to the shop to look at it. Yes this was where I planned on getting it fixed because it was a chevy dealer. But I had stated to them that I only wanted a quote and the adjuster to look at it so that I had the time to come up with the deductible. I did not find out they were repairing the car until they were done with it. It didn't not take that long. But still what I am saying is That I DID NOT authorize anything to be done but for it to be looked at.
They keep saying since the insurance company paid for a rental car that they had to fix the car. So it was done with the insurance company. But not by me and I told this to the adjuster at the beginning of this all.
The adjuster works for my insurance company. Trust me I am ready to change companies for insurance because I am tired of being ran around in a circle about getting my car repaired.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 04:01 pm Post Subject: Hostage
The question is one of whether the repairer holds a valid lien against the vehicle. Your questions to the Vehicle Owner (VO) are good ones as they speak to the question of "reasonable" action on her part (whether or not she told them to "stop"). The issue you are leaning toward is one of implied authorization. I would say she is on good ground since she called and expressed her concern. I do not believe she was obligated to demand they cease repairs.
As to the authorizations mandated in my state and others. They are merely a re-packaging and at most a refinement of standard Consumer Fraud law so they are really quite easily passed and whether they "exist" in any particular state is not really an issue. The packaging just makes the behavior easier to regulate.
All that said - providently, OH does have such consumer protection law in place and I'm told by a very well versed attorney friend there that the Consumer Protection division of the OH state AG's office is very interested in such issues.
"Ohio Administrative Code 109:4-3-13. Motor vehicle repairs or services" defines the issue. I have the Lexis Nexis on it if that is necessary. OH Revised Statutes 1345 - .01, .02 and .99 link the behavior to Consumer Fraud remedies of treble damages for such violations.
If there is need for any assistance I'd be happy to connect Day to an OH attorney who can point her in exactly the right direction. In fact, I'd love to be apprised of the responses offered the vehicle owner in this case - I may be reached at wadeebert[at]sbcglobal.net.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 06:29 pm Post Subject:
Thank you Wade!!! I greatly appreciate the advice you are giving to me. Right now I am waiting to hear from the own of the car dealership. And I will let you know what is going on. I appreciate everyones response on this subject because I am so tired of being messed around. It seems like I have had nothing but problems since the accident happened and it wasn't even my fault but here I am trying to still get my stuff in order because the insurance company can't get a hold of the other drivers insurance company. I think its time to find a new insurance company since they are seemingly giving me such a hard time about all this. This is all on top of getting my car back from the shop. Just an extremely stressful situation.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 09:58 am Post Subject: insurance
It seems like I have had nothing but problems since the accident happened and it wasn't even my fault but here I am trying to still get my stuff in order because the insurance company can't get a hold of the other drivers insurance company.
Your Insurance company CAN'T ...OR..WON'T get ahold of the other Insurance company/ Yep...sounds like 'your' Insurance company isn't helping you at all....which they should be.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:12 am Post Subject:
Yes this was where I planned on getting it fixed because it was a chevy dealer. But I had stated to them that I only wanted a quote and the adjuster to look at it so that I had the time to come up with the deductible
Well then Days, really the whole crux of the situation is .... you were intending to have this shop fix your vehicle...you just didn't have the deductible together right now..is that correct? If there was no deductible for you to pay would you be this upset? Don't get me wrong I totally understand this..
Clearly you say you told the SHOP you didn't want it fixed..only an estimate...BUT the shop still WITHOUT talking with YOU fixed your car...well no question in my mind ''who'' screwed up here...
I did not find out they were repairing the car until they were done with it.
How much was the total cost of repair? Ok you drop it off on monday get a rental...call on thursday and NOTHING has been done with your vehicle, not even an estimate...you call the adjuster whom you say hasn't even written the estimate yet..did you talk to the adjuster then? if so did you also say to the adjuster, you were not ready to repair? did that even come up with the adjuster? when is the next time you talk with ANYONE (adjuster or shop) about your vehicle? You say you didn't know they were repairing the car until they were done with it...so you talked with the adjuster thursday...then what? Were you then just notified by they shop ''your vehicle is done, and this is how much you owe us?'' if so when (what day) was that? Who (exactly) did you tell at the shop that you only wanted an estimate? Who at the shop did you talk to re: when you called thursday, and when you were notified it was done? And who have you talked to since?
They keep saying since the insurance company paid for a rental car that they had to fix the car
Well this is just plain crap from the shop, true most carriers will not put you in a rental when you have a driveable vehicle, unless it is actively under repair..but you told the shop you only wanted an estimate....
So it was done with the insurance company. But not by me and I told this to the adjuster at the beginning of this all.
No it wasn't it was 'done' by the shop...
Trust me I am ready to change companies for insurance because I am tired of being ran around in a circle about getting my car repaired.
I'm sorry, but this one is (IMO) going to fall squarely on the shops shoulders...they have no auth from you, they can't get auth from your carrier..they have zero to do with the rental car...or wait a minute...did they provide the rental? or do you have rental coverage on your policy and your carrier is paying for the rental? did you get a rental from say enterprise or hertz or did the shop give you a 'loaner'?
Let me ask you this...if the shop worked out a way to let you make payments on your deductible would you be alright with this?
The thing is...your beef, is with the shop...also the shop is the one (whether they have a 'legal' lein or not) that will hold your car until you pay..not your carrier...i don't see why you are upset with your carrier and not with the shop that went ahead and fixed your car, without your permission?
Your Insurance company CAN'T ...OR..WON'T get ahold of the other Insurance company/
SD this would make zero sense for her carrier to not actively pursue the other carrier, if she isn't at fault...they will have a subrogation claim against this other carrier which will give them all the money they paid back as well as their insured's deductible...so it makes no sense why this would'nt be pursued aggressively.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 02:34 pm Post Subject: Legal Lien
1.) Ohio requires that repairers write estimates at the request of the vehicle owner.
2.) The repairer cannot hold the vehicle unless it has a valid lien.
3.) The Insurer is off the hook because insurance estimates are inconsequential to the repair. They cannot be used legally to document repairs for the vehicle owner or as the basis for a final bill. UNLESS the insurer elects the option to "repair" under the payment of loss provision afforded in the policy language. At which point the insurer becomes the "repairer in fact" and then bears all the liability for their actions taken regarding both repair and compliance with mandates on repairers set forth in state law.
This is the problem with the whole deal - The cuture of our industry has been infiltrated and compromised. Much like the current economic crisis brought on by insurers' undue influence and overreaching - insurers have extended themselves similarly with undue influence in the collision repair business.
The repairer thinks they work for the insurer. Heck the Insurer thinks the repairer works for the insurer!
Now I'll extend myself - I'll wager the repairer has a contract or "agreement" with the insurer. I'll also bet that the contract mandates that the repairer achieve a specific "cycle time" objective. Which means "hurry up and get that car out the door ASAP!" So that is what you got. Many of these types of repairers put their "contracts" or "agreements" as the insurers like to call them - well ahead of the legally binding contract of repair established with the vehicle owner.
Greed is the root of the "credit default swap" problem - Greed is the root of this problem as well. Repairers get taken in by the promise of more money if they "perform favorably" in an agreement to compromise their one true customer - the vehicle owner.
Day - I bet you didn't know that the shop was representing you in negotiations with an insurer - did you? Well there is something you can do about that.
Several bad actors in OH have recently been shut down for similar behaviors. When you get the chance, email me the details (name of shop etc.) and I'll pass it along to some friends I have in the OH and their attorneys.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 04:29 pm Post Subject:
Mr. Ebert, it's nice to see you here sharing your expertise.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:40 pm Post Subject:
Now I'll extend myself - I'll wager the repairer has a contract or "agreement" with the insurer
I don't think so in this case Wade, since the adjuster was (according to the OP) nearly a week coming to the shop to write the estimate him/her self...doesn't sound like most drp's and most certainly screws cyle time... Think about the chain of events in this particular repair...drops vehicle on monday...she calls adjuster on thurs..no estimate or inspect done yet...naa, I don't know any drp's that work that way...do you?
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 01:14 am Post Subject: insurance
I don't balme you for being mad......I would, too. After you talk to them, please give me an 'update'. I would like to know what's going on.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:46 am Post Subject:
Days, sounds to me like the shop is the one that screwed this one up..
You hand the shop your car...shop should've at that time got an authorization for repair (or atleast tear down)...they then proceed to repair your car KNOWING they have no authorization...
Again, I ask you WHEN (what day) did you drop off your car? When (what day) did you find out they were repairing it? When you found this out did you say, STOP NOW! Or tell them they could finish? Since you took the car to this shop I assume this is/was the shop of YOUR choice right? Would you not have repaired it? What was your plan if not to (ultimately) repair the vehicle at this shop?
RE: the adjuster...is this adjuster a 'company' adjuster or an independent adjuster? meaning does he work for your insurance company (employed only by them) or independently work for several as (maybe) an appraiser? There could be a big difference in that...Who is your carrier, and who looked at your vehicle (estimated the damage)? Has your carrier issued payment for this damage to the shop? What did the shop say when you told them you did not give anybody permission to fix your car?
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 02:06 pm Post Subject:
I took the car there on a Monday, called on Thursday the adjuster still had not come over to look at it. I had to call him that day to see when he was planning to go over to the shop to look at it. Yes this was where I planned on getting it fixed because it was a chevy dealer. But I had stated to them that I only wanted a quote and the adjuster to look at it so that I had the time to come up with the deductible. I did not find out they were repairing the car until they were done with it. It didn't not take that long. But still what I am saying is That I DID NOT authorize anything to be done but for it to be looked at.
They keep saying since the insurance company paid for a rental car that they had to fix the car. So it was done with the insurance company. But not by me and I told this to the adjuster at the beginning of this all.
The adjuster works for my insurance company. Trust me I am ready to change companies for insurance because I am tired of being ran around in a circle about getting my car repaired.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 04:01 pm Post Subject: Hostage
The question is one of whether the repairer holds a valid lien against the vehicle. Your questions to the Vehicle Owner (VO) are good ones as they speak to the question of "reasonable" action on her part (whether or not she told them to "stop"). The issue you are leaning toward is one of implied authorization. I would say she is on good ground since she called and expressed her concern. I do not believe she was obligated to demand they cease repairs.
As to the authorizations mandated in my state and others. They are merely a re-packaging and at most a refinement of standard Consumer Fraud law so they are really quite easily passed and whether they "exist" in any particular state is not really an issue. The packaging just makes the behavior easier to regulate.
All that said - providently, OH does have such consumer protection law in place and I'm told by a very well versed attorney friend there that the Consumer Protection division of the OH state AG's office is very interested in such issues.
"Ohio Administrative Code 109:4-3-13. Motor vehicle repairs or services" defines the issue. I have the Lexis Nexis on it if that is necessary. OH Revised Statutes 1345 - .01, .02 and .99 link the behavior to Consumer Fraud remedies of treble damages for such violations.
If there is need for any assistance I'd be happy to connect Day to an OH attorney who can point her in exactly the right direction. In fact, I'd love to be apprised of the responses offered the vehicle owner in this case - I may be reached at wadeebert[at]sbcglobal.net.
Posted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 06:29 pm Post Subject:
Thank you Wade!!! I greatly appreciate the advice you are giving to me. Right now I am waiting to hear from the own of the car dealership. And I will let you know what is going on. I appreciate everyones response on this subject because I am so tired of being messed around. It seems like I have had nothing but problems since the accident happened and it wasn't even my fault but here I am trying to still get my stuff in order because the insurance company can't get a hold of the other drivers insurance company. I think its time to find a new insurance company since they are seemingly giving me such a hard time about all this. This is all on top of getting my car back from the shop. Just an extremely stressful situation.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 09:58 am Post Subject: insurance
It seems like I have had nothing but problems since the accident happened and it wasn't even my fault but here I am trying to still get my stuff in order because the insurance company can't get a hold of the other drivers insurance company.
Your Insurance company CAN'T ...OR..WON'T get ahold of the other Insurance company/ Yep...sounds like 'your' Insurance company isn't helping you at all....which they should be.Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:12 am Post Subject:
Yes this was where I planned on getting it fixed because it was a chevy dealer. But I had stated to them that I only wanted a quote and the adjuster to look at it so that I had the time to come up with the deductible
Well then Days, really the whole crux of the situation is .... you were intending to have this shop fix your vehicle...you just didn't have the deductible together right now..is that correct? If there was no deductible for you to pay would you be this upset? Don't get me wrong I totally understand this..Clearly you say you told the SHOP you didn't want it fixed..only an estimate...BUT the shop still WITHOUT talking with YOU fixed your car...well no question in my mind ''who'' screwed up here...
I did not find out they were repairing the car until they were done with it.
How much was the total cost of repair? Ok you drop it off on monday get a rental...call on thursday and NOTHING has been done with your vehicle, not even an estimate...you call the adjuster whom you say hasn't even written the estimate yet..did you talk to the adjuster then? if so did you also say to the adjuster, you were not ready to repair? did that even come up with the adjuster? when is the next time you talk with ANYONE (adjuster or shop) about your vehicle? You say you didn't know they were repairing the car until they were done with it...so you talked with the adjuster thursday...then what? Were you then just notified by they shop ''your vehicle is done, and this is how much you owe us?'' if so when (what day) was that? Who (exactly) did you tell at the shop that you only wanted an estimate? Who at the shop did you talk to re: when you called thursday, and when you were notified it was done? And who have you talked to since?They keep saying since the insurance company paid for a rental car that they had to fix the car
Well this is just plain crap from the shop, true most carriers will not put you in a rental when you have a driveable vehicle, unless it is actively under repair..but you told the shop you only wanted an estimate....So it was done with the insurance company. But not by me and I told this to the adjuster at the beginning of this all.
No it wasn't it was 'done' by the shop...Trust me I am ready to change companies for insurance because I am tired of being ran around in a circle about getting my car repaired.
I'm sorry, but this one is (IMO) going to fall squarely on the shops shoulders...they have no auth from you, they can't get auth from your carrier..they have zero to do with the rental car...or wait a minute...did they provide the rental? or do you have rental coverage on your policy and your carrier is paying for the rental? did you get a rental from say enterprise or hertz or did the shop give you a 'loaner'?
Let me ask you this...if the shop worked out a way to let you make payments on your deductible would you be alright with this?
The thing is...your beef, is with the shop...also the shop is the one (whether they have a 'legal' lein or not) that will hold your car until you pay..not your carrier...i don't see why you are upset with your carrier and not with the shop that went ahead and fixed your car, without your permission?
Your Insurance company CAN'T ...OR..WON'T get ahold of the other Insurance company/
SD this would make zero sense for her carrier to not actively pursue the other carrier, if she isn't at fault...they will have a subrogation claim against this other carrier which will give them all the money they paid back as well as their insured's deductible...so it makes no sense why this would'nt be pursued aggressively.Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 02:34 pm Post Subject: Legal Lien
1.) Ohio requires that repairers write estimates at the request of the vehicle owner.
2.) The repairer cannot hold the vehicle unless it has a valid lien.
3.) The Insurer is off the hook because insurance estimates are inconsequential to the repair. They cannot be used legally to document repairs for the vehicle owner or as the basis for a final bill. UNLESS the insurer elects the option to "repair" under the payment of loss provision afforded in the policy language. At which point the insurer becomes the "repairer in fact" and then bears all the liability for their actions taken regarding both repair and compliance with mandates on repairers set forth in state law.
This is the problem with the whole deal - The cuture of our industry has been infiltrated and compromised. Much like the current economic crisis brought on by insurers' undue influence and overreaching - insurers have extended themselves similarly with undue influence in the collision repair business.
The repairer thinks they work for the insurer. Heck the Insurer thinks the repairer works for the insurer!
Now I'll extend myself - I'll wager the repairer has a contract or "agreement" with the insurer. I'll also bet that the contract mandates that the repairer achieve a specific "cycle time" objective. Which means "hurry up and get that car out the door ASAP!" So that is what you got. Many of these types of repairers put their "contracts" or "agreements" as the insurers like to call them - well ahead of the legally binding contract of repair established with the vehicle owner.
Greed is the root of the "credit default swap" problem - Greed is the root of this problem as well. Repairers get taken in by the promise of more money if they "perform favorably" in an agreement to compromise their one true customer - the vehicle owner.
Day - I bet you didn't know that the shop was representing you in negotiations with an insurer - did you? Well there is something you can do about that.
Several bad actors in OH have recently been shut down for similar behaviors. When you get the chance, email me the details (name of shop etc.) and I'll pass it along to some friends I have in the OH and their attorneys.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 04:29 pm Post Subject:
Mr. Ebert, it's nice to see you here sharing your expertise.
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:40 pm Post Subject:
Now I'll extend myself - I'll wager the repairer has a contract or "agreement" with the insurer
I don't think so in this case Wade, since the adjuster was (according to the OP) nearly a week coming to the shop to write the estimate him/her self...doesn't sound like most drp's and most certainly screws cyle time... Think about the chain of events in this particular repair...drops vehicle on monday...she calls adjuster on thurs..no estimate or inspect done yet...naa, I don't know any drp's that work that way...do you?Add your comment