nonowner insurance for the boy is that the way to go
Total Comments: 19
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 02:12 am Post Subject:
I think I've come across this information somewhere that non-owners policies may also offer UM and PIP coverage. Can you confirm it for me?
Very true. If PIP/UM are mandatory, broad form (non-owner) policies must provide the mandated coverage. I should have probably said "these policies do not provide physical damage coverage" instead. Ooops!
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 04:12 am Post Subject:
I would definitely add the boy under the parents insurance. Having separate coverage for the boy will drain your pockets. As we all know, car insurance for teenage boys is extremely expensive (for obvious reasons).
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 06:43 am Post Subject:
Hi Autoinsuranceusa, isn't it better at times to get the boy an old car and separate liability policy only on it than adding him on the parent's policy for a showy car?
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:31 pm Post Subject:
Hi autoinsuranceusa,
I would definitely add the boy under the parents insurance.
Don't you think it's possible only if the boy agrees to be an occasional driver?
Should the parents of a teenager who wishes to drive regularly include him? I'm sure it would affect their insurance record in case he turns out to be a bad driver.
Thanx, Roddick
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:06 pm Post Subject:
We bought our kids their first cars..(beater's SAFE, but beater's none the less)...We could pay cash for them and only carry liability (higher than state required limits of course)...they had to be rated on 'one' car in the house hold...then they could drive any of them...It was much cheaper (insurance wise) for us to do this rather than than rate them on Dad or my vehicles which were newer more expensive vehicles with broader coverages (ie collision comp etc)
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 02:48 am Post Subject:
First off, it's not a good idea to try and circumvent adding your kid to your policy, as again- most every decent carrier on the planet requires all licensed drivers in the household to be named and shown in the declarations! This is not an optional situation- it's a requirement. Why is this? Simple!
1. The insurer is entitled to the proper premium for any risk it insures; the greater the exposure, the greater the risk; the greater the risk, the greater the premium.
2. Most standard and all preferred risk car insurance policies state that an insured person is "anyone living in the household described in the declarations" and "anyone using the vehicle with the policyowner's permission and who holds a valid driver's license." This means that your kid is covered by the parents' policy by policy definition, even if the insurance company doesn't know of the child's existence!
3. If the insurance company doesn't even know the kid is there, how are they going to get the proper premium for the risk that comes with that teenager that is, by definition, covered by the contract?
Answer? They won't, and they won't like it if the kid gets into a wreck and really hurts someone badly or kills them and they didn't even know the kid is there. Sure, you've gone out and gotten the teenager his own separate liability policy and think that everything is fine. You've probably purchased minimum limits because it's so darn expensive, and then the accident happens. The minimum limits you've purchased aren't enough- you're $100k short for the liability end of things for bodily injury liability coverage. So, the claimant finds a lawyer. Lawyers know about automobile insurance contract language, and the first thing he's gonna do is check to see if there is any other "valid and collectible insurance" that exists in the household. Sure, there's coverage for Underinsured Motorist on the policy that the claimant has, and that would probably pay, but then the other insurer is gonna lawyer up and do the same thing. That other insurance is mommy and daddy's policy, and that insurer is probably going to have to pay for those damages up to the policy limits.
They won't be happy.
Some companies will let you go and buy the separate policy, but they will have you sign an exclusion so they won't incur any liability if your kid does cause problems. Doing this separate policy thing is just plain dumb 99% of the time. I can think of very few reasons why it should be done, and I don't want to go into that now. As well, you lose the multi-car discount when you get the kid his own policy. That's stupid, too.
Finally, to address Lori's statements;
How your child is rated as to premium depends on the carrier. Some companies will rate the kid on the car he actually drives, and some will assign based on "highest rated to highest rated." The biggest risk driver goes on the most expensive car, regardless of the amount of time actually spent driving that car. Ask your agent how your carrier does this.
As far as principal vs. occasional rating: If you have an equal number of cars as drivers, every driver will have to be rated as a principal operator on one of the cars. You can't rate someone as an occasional driver unless there are fewer cars than drivers.
Our mistake was letting each of the kids get their own cars. Oooops. Thank the gods above for good grades and clean MVRs! Also, I have two kids away at school without their cars. My driveway looks like a car lot. My carrier gives kids more than 100 miles away from home that are in school a nice (NICE) discount. They're 18 and 20 years old, and my insurer's only charging me $45/6 months for each of them, and they can drive the cars when they come home. Sweet. So, I carry comp on the cars when they're at school, and call my agent to activate the coverage when they come home. They don't come home that often, so my agent doesn't mind the extra paperwork. In two years, my third kid goes away to school. I will most likely now be bankrupt from the tuition, etc. for three kids, but at least I'll be saving a fortune on the car insurance!
This is why you need a company and an agent that know what the heck they're doing. Sorry for the long post.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:46 am Post Subject:
Finally, to address Lori's statements;
How your child is rated as to premium depends on the carrier. Some companies will rate the kid on the car he actually drives, and some will assign based on "highest rated to highest rated." The biggest risk driver goes on the most expensive car, regardless of the amount of time actually spent driving that car. Ask your agent how your carrier does this.
With my carrier, any household resident has to be rated on a vehicle in the house they let you chose which one..as I said we bought them their own vehicle and they were rated as principle drivers on those policys carrying liability only (at 50/100/300 I might add NOT my states 'get you sued quick" low limits :roll: )...These vehicles were added to our policy so I quess I should've been clearer...they were the kids cars, insured under mom and dad's policy (another 'unit') with them as primary drivers...they then were paying premium based on their vehicle and coverage rather than mom and dad's cars which would've cost much much more...they were able to drive our cars at any time...(although THAT rarely happened).....in my case there was no 'getting around the carrier'..or trying to for that matter..this is how they do it...now had we not bought the kids their cars they would've been rated on mom or dad's vehicle and the premiums sky high...(due to the yr/makes/model/ and coverages)...I might add my kids were required to pay their own insurance premiums (to mom) until they were out on their own, and bought their own policys (NO WAY were those policys lapsing while I was watching :wink: )...if they were a day or two late paying me their premiums no big deal, (if they told me ahead of time)..if they were more than a day or two late that car didnt' move till they paid it..(I of course had already paid the premiums-sucks right out of my checking account every month).....If memory serves they each only one time came up 'short' and had to leave their vehicle set for a week...never happened again after that..hmmmmmm
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 05:17 am Post Subject:
Lori, no, I understood what you meant in your post, I was just pointing out that different carriers rate differently. I sought out a company that rated the kids on the cars they actually drive instead of mine and mom's. Of course that's because we have nice cars and the kids have, well, "ok" cars. They're safe and good cars, but they'd much rather drive mine or mom's. That does happen here and there, but like you said:
they were able to drive our cars at any time...(although THAT rarely happened)
I know that pain in the backside feeling. Our policies work the exact same way. But remember- I have three of those conniving "can I drive you car dad....pleeeeeeeeeeze??" kids hanging around. But at least 2 of them are away at school, so I only have the 17 year-old whining now, and she likes mom's car better. My car scares her. Good.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:01 am Post Subject:
I have three of those conniving "can I drive you car dad....pleeeeeeeeeeze??"
I reconginze that whine, they HAVE to be girls, when our daughter is wanting something, it's always "Daddy"..rarely is is 'dad' in those times.. :wink: those girls know how to work their Daddy's no question about it...
I allowed my son to drive my 'prized' 1973 camaro z28 rs/ss 'to' the prom...with me behind him...the deal was he and his date would drive to the prom, after all the 'ooooohhhhs, and ahhhhhhhhh's ' were over I would leave his truck and take my car home...I was following in his truck, (little 4cyl mazda at the time-clearly it was before he totaled it :roll: that's a another story :roll: )..in my 'jammies' of course..I intended to stay out of sight, he knew I was following him, gonna lay back a little though let him have his moment in mom's ''race'' car...Little punk got out of our drive way all went well for about four blocks then he punched, it to lose me...well trouble is I knew where we were going...I got there not too long after him...so pissed off I couldn't see straight, he was on 'lap two' of his showing off for the boys in the parking lot when I arrived, burning off as much rubber as he could from my 500 buck a piece tires...when his little turd of a mazda truck pulled right in front of him cutting him offf, and a pissed off mama lori came out of that truck movin' quicker than ant at a picnic, in my jammies, hair up in the air, and said, very loudly (over the motor you know) 'Boy! Get out of MY car, give me the keys, and you might want to move this piece of $#@ truck of yours out of the way before someone hit's it!" :lol: Oh my gosh...driving mom's cool car to prom awesome, mom in her jammies jerking your tuxedo clad butt out of her car in front of your friends? priceless :wink:
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 02:12 am Post Subject:
I think I've come across this information somewhere that non-owners policies may also offer UM and PIP coverage. Can you confirm it for me?
Very true. If PIP/UM are mandatory, broad form (non-owner) policies must provide the mandated coverage. I should have probably said "these policies do not provide physical damage coverage" instead. Ooops!
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 04:12 am Post Subject:
I would definitely add the boy under the parents insurance. Having separate coverage for the boy will drain your pockets. As we all know, car insurance for teenage boys is extremely expensive (for obvious reasons).
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 06:43 am Post Subject:
Hi Autoinsuranceusa, isn't it better at times to get the boy an old car and separate liability policy only on it than adding him on the parent's policy for a showy car?
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:31 pm Post Subject:
Hi autoinsuranceusa,
I would definitely add the boy under the parents insurance.
Don't you think it's possible only if the boy agrees to be an occasional driver?
Should the parents of a teenager who wishes to drive regularly include him? I'm sure it would affect their insurance record in case he turns out to be a bad driver.
Thanx, Roddick
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:06 pm Post Subject:
We bought our kids their first cars..(beater's SAFE, but beater's none the less)...We could pay cash for them and only carry liability (higher than state required limits of course)...they had to be rated on 'one' car in the house hold...then they could drive any of them...It was much cheaper (insurance wise) for us to do this rather than than rate them on Dad or my vehicles which were newer more expensive vehicles with broader coverages (ie collision comp etc)
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 02:48 am Post Subject:
First off, it's not a good idea to try and circumvent adding your kid to your policy, as again- most every decent carrier on the planet requires all licensed drivers in the household to be named and shown in the declarations! This is not an optional situation- it's a requirement. Why is this? Simple!
1. The insurer is entitled to the proper premium for any risk it insures; the greater the exposure, the greater the risk; the greater the risk, the greater the premium.
2. Most standard and all preferred risk car insurance policies state that an insured person is "anyone living in the household described in the declarations" and "anyone using the vehicle with the policyowner's permission and who holds a valid driver's license." This means that your kid is covered by the parents' policy by policy definition, even if the insurance company doesn't know of the child's existence!
3. If the insurance company doesn't even know the kid is there, how are they going to get the proper premium for the risk that comes with that teenager that is, by definition, covered by the contract?
Answer? They won't, and they won't like it if the kid gets into a wreck and really hurts someone badly or kills them and they didn't even know the kid is there. Sure, you've gone out and gotten the teenager his own separate liability policy and think that everything is fine. You've probably purchased minimum limits because it's so darn expensive, and then the accident happens. The minimum limits you've purchased aren't enough- you're $100k short for the liability end of things for bodily injury liability coverage. So, the claimant finds a lawyer. Lawyers know about automobile insurance contract language, and the first thing he's gonna do is check to see if there is any other "valid and collectible insurance" that exists in the household. Sure, there's coverage for Underinsured Motorist on the policy that the claimant has, and that would probably pay, but then the other insurer is gonna lawyer up and do the same thing. That other insurance is mommy and daddy's policy, and that insurer is probably going to have to pay for those damages up to the policy limits.
They won't be happy.
Some companies will let you go and buy the separate policy, but they will have you sign an exclusion so they won't incur any liability if your kid does cause problems. Doing this separate policy thing is just plain dumb 99% of the time. I can think of very few reasons why it should be done, and I don't want to go into that now. As well, you lose the multi-car discount when you get the kid his own policy. That's stupid, too.
Finally, to address Lori's statements;
How your child is rated as to premium depends on the carrier. Some companies will rate the kid on the car he actually drives, and some will assign based on "highest rated to highest rated." The biggest risk driver goes on the most expensive car, regardless of the amount of time actually spent driving that car. Ask your agent how your carrier does this.
As far as principal vs. occasional rating: If you have an equal number of cars as drivers, every driver will have to be rated as a principal operator on one of the cars. You can't rate someone as an occasional driver unless there are fewer cars than drivers.
Our mistake was letting each of the kids get their own cars. Oooops. Thank the gods above for good grades and clean MVRs! Also, I have two kids away at school without their cars. My driveway looks like a car lot. My carrier gives kids more than 100 miles away from home that are in school a nice (NICE) discount. They're 18 and 20 years old, and my insurer's only charging me $45/6 months for each of them, and they can drive the cars when they come home. Sweet. So, I carry comp on the cars when they're at school, and call my agent to activate the coverage when they come home. They don't come home that often, so my agent doesn't mind the extra paperwork. In two years, my third kid goes away to school. I will most likely now be bankrupt from the tuition, etc. for three kids, but at least I'll be saving a fortune on the car insurance!
This is why you need a company and an agent that know what the heck they're doing. Sorry for the long post.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:46 am Post Subject:
Finally, to address Lori's statements;
With my carrier, any household resident has to be rated on a vehicle in the house they let you chose which one..as I said we bought them their own vehicle and they were rated as principle drivers on those policys carrying liability only (at 50/100/300 I might add NOT my states 'get you sued quick" low limits :roll: )...These vehicles were added to our policy so I quess I should've been clearer...they were the kids cars, insured under mom and dad's policy (another 'unit') with them as primary drivers...they then were paying premium based on their vehicle and coverage rather than mom and dad's cars which would've cost much much more...they were able to drive our cars at any time...(although THAT rarely happened).....in my case there was no 'getting around the carrier'..or trying to for that matter..this is how they do it...now had we not bought the kids their cars they would've been rated on mom or dad's vehicle and the premiums sky high...(due to the yr/makes/model/ and coverages)...I might add my kids were required to pay their own insurance premiums (to mom) until they were out on their own, and bought their own policys (NO WAY were those policys lapsing while I was watching :wink: )...if they were a day or two late paying me their premiums no big deal, (if they told me ahead of time)..if they were more than a day or two late that car didnt' move till they paid it..(I of course had already paid the premiums-sucks right out of my checking account every month).....If memory serves they each only one time came up 'short' and had to leave their vehicle set for a week...never happened again after that..hmmmmmmHow your child is rated as to premium depends on the carrier. Some companies will rate the kid on the car he actually drives, and some will assign based on "highest rated to highest rated." The biggest risk driver goes on the most expensive car, regardless of the amount of time actually spent driving that car. Ask your agent how your carrier does this.
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 05:17 am Post Subject:
Lori, no, I understood what you meant in your post, I was just pointing out that different carriers rate differently. I sought out a company that rated the kids on the cars they actually drive instead of mine and mom's. Of course that's because we have nice cars and the kids have, well, "ok" cars. They're safe and good cars, but they'd much rather drive mine or mom's. That does happen here and there, but like you said:
they were able to drive our cars at any time...(although THAT rarely happened)
I know that pain in the backside feeling. Our policies work the exact same way. But remember- I have three of those conniving "can I drive you car dad....pleeeeeeeeeeze??" kids hanging around. But at least 2 of them are away at school, so I only have the 17 year-old whining now, and she likes mom's car better. My car scares her. Good.
InsTeacher 8)
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:01 am Post Subject:
I have three of those conniving "can I drive you car dad....pleeeeeeeeeeze??"
I reconginze that whine, they HAVE to be girls, when our daughter is wanting something, it's always "Daddy"..rarely is is 'dad' in those times.. :wink: those girls know how to work their Daddy's no question about it...I allowed my son to drive my 'prized' 1973 camaro z28 rs/ss 'to' the prom...with me behind him...the deal was he and his date would drive to the prom, after all the 'ooooohhhhs, and ahhhhhhhhh's ' were over I would leave his truck and take my car home...I was following in his truck, (little 4cyl mazda at the time-clearly it was before he totaled it :roll: that's a another story :roll: )..in my 'jammies' of course..I intended to stay out of sight, he knew I was following him, gonna lay back a little though let him have his moment in mom's ''race'' car...Little punk got out of our drive way all went well for about four blocks then he punched, it to lose me...well trouble is I knew where we were going...I got there not too long after him...so pissed off I couldn't see straight, he was on 'lap two' of his showing off for the boys in the parking lot when I arrived, burning off as much rubber as he could from my 500 buck a piece tires...when his little turd of a mazda truck pulled right in front of him cutting him offf, and a pissed off mama lori came out of that truck movin' quicker than ant at a picnic, in my jammies, hair up in the air, and said, very loudly (over the motor you know) 'Boy! Get out of MY car, give me the keys, and you might want to move this piece of $#@ truck of yours out of the way before someone hit's it!" :lol: Oh my gosh...driving mom's cool car to prom awesome, mom in her jammies jerking your tuxedo clad butt out of her car in front of your friends? priceless :wink:
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