by Guest » Thu Mar 13, 2008 06:20 am
I was rear-ended while stopped at a light by a woman chatting on a cell phone as she hit me traveling in excess of 45 mph. Her big Buick had the front end smashed all the way back to the firewall. My foot was on the brake of my car, and when I noticed the skid marks from my tires, I realized her hit was hard enough to leave five-foot long skid marks from my tires.
Progressive has assigned two patronizing ladies to "help" me. They have detailed information from my doctors describing my injuries, and pay logs showing that I lost thousands of dollars in lost earnings.
The first nit-picked my loss of income, and she asked me for "more information".
"What specific information do you need?"
"I don't know, I don't understand how your industry operates, nor how you get paid."
"Well, perhaps Progressive needs to assign a rep who understands my business."
"Are you questioning my intelligence??!!??"
"Hey, you just said you don't have the knowledge or experience to understand how I get paid."
"Well Mr. (Me), you simply have not proven to me that you incurred a loss of income."
"Even if I gave you every document showing how I get paid, you have already said that you won't understand."
"WATCH WHAT YOU SAY Mr. (Me). Think verrrrry carefully before you say anything more."
"Your office can be seen from my office window. I shall grab my pay logs and meet you in your office in ten minutes. You may freely browse the file until you find the specific items you need."
"Mr. (Me) I have already told you that I don't know what documents I need because I don't understand your industry. Stay away from my office. I will not see you if you come over. If you set foot inside our office, I shall have the police arrest you for trespassing."
Is that how a cheerful and helpful adjuster "works hard" to make me whole?
Do I suffer from wrong thinking.
Progressive has assigned two patronizing ladies to "help" me. They have detailed information from my doctors describing my injuries, and pay logs showing that I lost thousands of dollars in lost earnings.
The first nit-picked my loss of income, and she asked me for "more information".
"What specific information do you need?"
"I don't know, I don't understand how your industry operates, nor how you get paid."
"Well, perhaps Progressive needs to assign a rep who understands my business."
"Are you questioning my intelligence??!!??"
"Hey, you just said you don't have the knowledge or experience to understand how I get paid."
"Well Mr. (Me), you simply have not proven to me that you incurred a loss of income."
"Even if I gave you every document showing how I get paid, you have already said that you won't understand."
"WATCH WHAT YOU SAY Mr. (Me). Think verrrrry carefully before you say anything more."
"Your office can be seen from my office window. I shall grab my pay logs and meet you in your office in ten minutes. You may freely browse the file until you find the specific items you need."
"Mr. (Me) I have already told you that I don't know what documents I need because I don't understand your industry. Stay away from my office. I will not see you if you come over. If you set foot inside our office, I shall have the police arrest you for trespassing."
Is that how a cheerful and helpful adjuster "works hard" to make me whole?
Do I suffer from wrong thinking.
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 03:34 am Post Subject: Gee, they say this company use to be fun to work for.
Quote taken from article written in Cleveland News Paper by Lisa Rab on March 12.
Maybe sportcoat guys adjusters are just on edge about their future with this company.
He's still the chairman of Progressive's board, but when he departed, he made Glenn Renwick his handpicked CEO. Some employees say nothing has been the same since.
"Until the reorganization was announced, I could've written a commercial for how much I loved Progressive," says one veteran manager.
"Everybody wanted to be there," adds another longtime employee. "Now it's quite the opposite."
When contacted by Scene, most employees were afraid to speak publicly about the company. Some fear they'll be fired. The laid-off still have friends and family on the job. And Progressive, they say, is no longer a place where people are encouraged to speak openly.
In the years after Lewis left, new layers of management appeared. Analysts and MBAs were hired to examine processes and procedures, rather than bring money in the door. "Things quit getting done," one former manager recalls.
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:45 am Post Subject:
Dasfuk, I agree I've had claims that I had a devil of a time proving to the file the amount I wanted to pay...as you said w2's aren't always the way...if they were off in June, and made the bulk of their yearly income in june last year....but I've always been able to find a way to get the proof...it just takes extra work some times...
Mike how about 'contributing' to the thread and attempting to assist or bring another point of view in for the OP, you missed a prime opportunity to actually contribute, as it would be very difficult to document your loss of income as well, (say you or your shop couldn't work for two weeks)....and perhaps you could've actually helped by explaining how you would go about proving this...but no just more bashing...and how is that possibly helping anyone especially the OP? IN SOME WAY!!!!!!!!!! We get it Mike you HATE progressive...ok...got it...... geeeeeeeeeeeze
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 08:44 pm Post Subject:
And pulling a quote from Scene Mag. From what I remember from my 10 years in Cleveland, that thing is a free rag. The only good information it ever had was what entertainment was coming to town.
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:58 pm Post Subject:
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 05:37 am Post Subject: And that makes it not true?
Ouch, that hurt!
I can't help you on the personal injury stuff or helping you calculate loss of income. I don't know if he is entitled to the potential income he would have made on the current employment situation or based on two previous years W-2's.
I don't know if johnny sportcoat was working at jack in the box two months ago for minimum wage or if he is currently employed as a stunt cave man actor for geico making 2500 a week. I would venture to say that he is owed his current potential loss of income but then I am not an attorney.
He sounded like he was presenting two problems. He was obviously irate because he thought his experience with the insurer he was dealing with would go much like the tv commercials and it did not. It sounds like the person or persons who were trained as expert negotiators resorted to taking the low road along with him.
His other problem sounded like the one you guys are probably best equiped to offer advice.
If I had been in the same situation, I wouldn't even talk to the other insurer or give them a statement as I have no contractual obligation to do so. If I wanted to use their funds to repair my vehicle I might have been a little more tactful and sought helpful information before I ever spoke to the at fault party. The only time I would have spoke to the at fault insurer would have been to give them my mailing address, fax, or email. After that it would all be in writing. I would have also asked that all communication be handled in writing so that there would be no misunderstandings as to what was being offered as settlement.
I would have dealt with my own insurer who has a contractual obligation to restore my vehicle to preloss condition or as my statutes mandate, they would have to pay an amount that would have caused my vehicle to be returned to the condition it was prior to the loss. If they did not comply with my policy or statutes, then I would have grounds for a bad faith claim. I simply have more choices with my own carrier and I won't be penalized for using my coverage for an accident that wasn't due to my negligence.
As far as my personal injuries or loss of income, I carry 50,000 dollars in med pay. My attorney has informed me that he carries 200,000 in med pay so that if he can not work, he can pay his staff and cover medical treatments so as to not use his health and accident coverage who might place a lein on a personal injury settlement subrogated against the other insurer. Med pay means different things in different states. In mine I can use all 50,000 dollars for my medical needs, before I would be forced to sue the other party or attempt to negotiate. And the insurer can not subrogate the med pay from the at fault party in my state. If I collect 50,000 in personal injury from the at fault party, I am also not required to pay my own insurer any funds back for the med pay coverage used.
This information is the type that is not afforded to policy holders because agents and insurers would prefer you use the other companies funds and not theirs, and they would not have to spend funds litigating or subrogating for any losses paid to the insured vehicle owner.
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 01:06 pm Post Subject:
Thanks for that info Dasfuk, we (of course) had no idea...
Ouch, that hurt!
well maybe you know how you make others feel just a tiny bit now Mike...but I'm sure that comment was meant sarcastically but a girl can hope can't she...I can't help you on the personal injury stuff or helping you calculate loss of income
I disagree Mike, I think you could (on the proving loss of income) just how would you go about proving (lets say) loss of income if your entire shop were shut down for two weeks....lets take two scenrios, one right after a hail storm (yikes can't believe i even said the 'h' word) and another lets say in the middle of January, no big ice storms just normal mid january MO weather (not like this year!)....what would you come up with to attempt to prove your loss of income? Would no doubt be a daunting task...but think it may prove valueable information (and pertain to the thread)...It sounds like the person or persons who were trained as expert negotiators resorted to taking the low road along with him.
I whole heartedly agree, and think most would...course all we have to go on is Johnny's take on the conversation...but certainly agree from his discription, you bet cha!My attorney has informed me that he carries 200,000 in med pay so that if he can not work, he can pay his staff and cover medical treatments so as to not use his health and accident coverage who might place a lein on a personal injury settlement subrogated against the other insurer
You are correct in that medpay is not subrogatable in our state however you are incorrect in that he can pay his staff etc..with the medpay, (well i guess he can but then he's not paying his medical bills) medpay in our state covers ONLY medical/funeral bills/ treatment...NOT loss of wage etc...From the MO-A-20.5-A policy:
We will pay the reasonable charges for necessary good and services for treatment of bodily injury sustaind by an insured, if such bodily injury directly results from an accident that arises out of the use of an auto...(within three years fo the accident date-treatment must be discovered and treatment started, within one year of the accident date).
From the Missouri Dept of Ins website:
Medical Payments
Coverage, available in various liability insurance policies, in which the insurer agrees to reimburse the insured and others, without regard to the insured's liability, for medical or funeral expenses as the result of bodily injury or death by accident under specified conditions.
Although medpay is not subrogatible, meaning your carrier going to someone else for repayment...your health carrier CAN subrogate your medpay coverage (if you use your health care) and/or the bodily injury settlement (if there is one) from the third party carrier..If it is a self funded program (which I think most are aren't they?)
Only self-funded health benefit plans are allowed to subrogate in Missouri.
Of course we are talking about your basic auto policy, either you misunderstood your attorney (re:paying his staff) or he is not talking about a private auto policy...also our state allows 'double dipping' meaning you can feasible collect on the same medical bill three times...say you have 1k in medical bills from a not at fault accident....Your carrier under medpay (which cannot generate a rate increase incidently), the 'at fault' carrier will also pay you the bill (generally not till the end when you settle it is lumped in with your settlement) and your health carrier...most health carriers now though are quick to file a lein, (subro either medpay/bi carriers, they can't collect it twice but will generally file the lein with both making certain they are reimbursed)...again medpay is not subrgatible but it can be subrogated against...(or lein filed against any medpay payment)..This information is the type that is not afforded to policy holders because agents and insurers would prefer you use the other companies funds and not theirs, and they would not have to spend funds litigating or subrogating for any losses paid to the insured vehicle owner.
Just couldn't get thru that post without some kind of negative remark could you? pity...If the insured has medpay coverage it is in their policy...Mike in our state, it is required when a claim is reported that the adjuster advise the insured of ALL COVERAGES THAT COULD APPLY TO THE LOSS...so there went that crack...right out the window....the adjuster not only does not keep this information from you they can't! and DON'T...I don't understand how you are going to collect your loss of wages, and your bi settlement with having zero communication with the other carrier?
The only time I would have spoke to the at fault insurer would have been to give them my mailing address, fax, or email.
If you have a med pay claim (and another insured party is at fault) then you also have a bi claim..and maybe some loss of wage, but certainly some pain and suffering and the aforementioned medical bills...how you gonna' get that without talking to anyone? Or are you saying that you are just automatically getting an attorney to handle this (let's say) 100 dollar doctor visit?Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 03:18 pm Post Subject: briefly
The med pay discussion occurred in the mid nineties. It is possible at that time, one might have been able to use med pay for the loss of income, I don't know, only was advised by the attorney at that time. Court cases change policies and they are revised when possible to close loop holes. I don't doubt that you can no longer collect loss of income.
My point was that, I would rather deal with my own insurance company whom with I maintain excellent coverage so that I won't be in a position to have to negotiate in a panic situation or from a position of disadvantage in knowledge from possibly an adversarial company adjuster.
People do not read their policies and agents are not available oftentimes to discuss options with them. I routinely speak to consumers that do not know they are entitled to use their med pay coverage because they were not advised. People on the other end of a discompassionate 800 line are not always helpful either when taking claims information.
Just as I was able to stack three uninsured motorist coverage policies in the mid nineties to settle a claim with my own insurer, that too has possibly been changed. No one told me about that til I attended a personal injury seminar.
There are states that allow uninsured motorist coverage for property damage where as my state does not. I would suggest that it is important for posters to mention their residence to best know how to help them by parties that reside or work in those specific areas.
I think most all claims should be handled or at the least followed up by letter and if you record conversations, those should be accessible to both parties upon request. We speak about things that make most people's eyes glaze over and their brain shut down. It is imperitive that people communicate in writing to avoid confusion and misrepresentation on either part.
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:43 pm Post Subject:
The med pay discussion occurred in the mid nineties. It is possible at that time, one might have been able to use med pay for the loss of income, I don't know, only was advised by the attorney at that time. Court cases change policies and they are revised when possible to close loop holes. I don't doubt that you can no longer collect loss of income
All I know is that I went to work in a claims office in 1986 and ever since then you could not get loss of wage under your med pay coverage...(in our state).My point was that, I would rather deal with my own insurance company whom with I maintain excellent coverage so that I won't be in a position to have to negotiate in a panic situation or from a position of disadvantage in knowledge from possibly an adversarial company adjuster
alright then I understand and agree with that..Just as I was able to stack three uninsured motorist coverage policies in the mid nineties to settle a claim with my own insurer, that too has possibly been changed. No one told me about that til I attended a personal injury seminar
Yes, Missouri allows stacking, some states do some don't we do...If you were in an active UM claim and all your policys were with the same company, then the adjuster should've made you aware of this, not to do so would be bad faith.There are states that allow uninsured motorist coverage for property damage where as my state does not.
Well Mike, sorry to tell ya' but again you are wrong/incorrect...first of all they don't ''allow'' it. They sell it, it's called UMPD (uninsured motorist property damage) and Missouri does sell it..(some states do not offer it, again since I have been at this they have offered it) It generally carries a 200 or 250 deductible I can't remember for sure on that..if you want to buy it call you agent..he'd be happy to sell it to you..most people that carry collision coverage do not buy it...because it's the same thing...(well meaning collision coverage also covers physical damage to the insured vehicle caused by an uninsured motorist)...I would suggest that it is important for posters to mention their residence to best know how to help them by parties that reside or work in those specific areas
Absolutely, we ask OP's when it applies....(and it generally does) to please supply their states...I think most all claims should be handled or at the least followed up by letter
saying what?if you record conversations, those should be accessible to both parties upon request
for what?No way should you give the claimant the insured's state or visa versa.....
We speak about things that make most people's eyes glaze over and their brain shut down.
:lol: :wink:It is imperitive that people communicate in writing to avoid confusion and misrepresentation on either part.
I totally agree! Wow Mike that's like two or three things in one thread that we agree on! :wink: :roll:Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 05:42 am Post Subject:
I've always recommended my insured's use their PIP or med pay. In Texas, you can have one or the other, which I generally push PIP for the loss of income coverage.
Several times, I've had insured's scared to file a claim on their own policy because they felt it was the other person's fault and they should not have to use their own insurance. Knowing how health insurance companies will generally try to subro against my insured's PIP, I strongly urge my insured to use it before the health carrier does.
Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:16 pm Post Subject:
Yes, PIP (in all states I've been exposed to) will pay loss of wage....you are a good agent MB, and I'm certain you (nor any agent or adjuster I know) hides any coverage from your clients...some insured's though have the strong opinion that they, 'by golly didn't do anything wrong and don't want to use their coverage period!' .... and I get that...
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