Its not like I'm selling anything and want to drum up business.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:10 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Perhaps you guys should respond to her article in the magazine and see if you get any traction or agreement from others in the collision industry.
I doubt you will see anyone taking the "bait" you offered as I don't see that it's ever been anyone's intention here to want to hash things out. This forum has formed into a place where advice is given as requested and things related to insurance are discussed. The board you refers to seems to be more of people wanting to complain about things related to the body shop arena. That's fine... but it's certainly not what I'm about nor would I think it appropriate to try to interject my opinions were they are obviously not wanted. That is, I see no need to stir the pot. Lastly, I really don't have anything to add to that forum that would be helpful to the people that read/post in it. Its not like I'm selling anything and want to drum up business.



Bottom line, this site is dedicated to the insurance industry. As such, I post here. I see no reason for me to go to a collision industry board and try to make posts about collision repair. If I did, I'd expect people with much more knowledge on the subject to correct all the wrong things I'd be posting. What I know is insurance and how insurance relates to the other industries it is involved with.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:02 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Bottom line, this site is dedicated to the insurance industry. As such, I post here. I see no reason for me to go to a collision industry board and try to make posts about collision repair. If I did, I'd expect people with much more knowledge on the subject to correct all the wrong things I'd be posting. What I know is insurance and how insurance relates to the other industries it is involved with.




I find that there are just as many knowledgeable people there that discuss the contract of insurance that are equal to the task of debating you. You are wrong if you think you aren't selling anything here, you are selling an insurance philosophy that does not always inform your readers of all their owed losses.





You know you might man up and call into tomorrow anonymously, if you prefer, and challenge Ms. Eversman on an interview program broadcast in Seattle. She'll be rested an up from her nap to discuss the article you read and did not agree with. I spoke with the host earlier today and mentioned that there was some disagreement from some insurer perpective. He said he hoped you would listen and call in. He has inteviewed the state insurance commissioner on his program, a former Farmers adjuster, and other adjusters and agents call in from time to time to disagree. It's done amicably and they'll respect your opinion though they may disagree.



http://www.am1090seattle.com/

Listen live streamed over the internet "CrashTalk"

9 am west coast, 10 mountain, 11 central.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:14 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Equating T's commentary to that of Ms. Eversman is laughable.
Commentary, content, or comments have NOTHING to do with it! What it DOES have to do with is copying someone elses printed words and posting them (mostly in part) to another forum/board without their consent, or even the common courtesy to ask permission...again, poor forum/enternet etiquette, zero professional courtesy, and just plain low class...
Quote:
Perhaps you guys should respond to her article in the magazine and see if you get any traction or agreement from others in the collision industry.
You bet on your ''pro-slam-a-dam-a-ding-dong board'' ...the board that attacks like hungry sharks in a feeding frenzy at pretty much any 'pro' or positive comment regarding insurance/drps/adjusters (big bad word on that board!) and they routinely eat their own for actually getting along with anyone in the insurance industry! Sure thing Mike...be right there... Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:22 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Its not like I'm selling anything and want to drum up business.
WinkWinkLaughingLaughingLaughing Made me spit my coffee on key board again Tcope...
Quote:
and challenge Ms. Eversman on an interview program broadcast in Seattle
What does he have to challenge her about SHE AGREED with him on the main point...read it again...Her words on your site....
Quote:
The INSURED has a contractual obligation to allow his/her insurer to review the damage, but the body shop does not.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:43 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
You bet on your ''pro-slam-a-dam-a-ding-dong board'' ...the board that attacks like hungry sharks in a feeding frenzy at pretty much any 'pro' or positive comment regarding insurance/drps/adjusters (big bad word on that board!) and they routinely eat their own for actually getting along with anyone in the insurance industry! Sure thing Mike...be right there...






You're right, just like sharks, they'd sniff the "BS" and arrogance and be on you two, like a hobo on a baloney sandwich. You two are afraid to step out of your box and comfort zone into the real truth.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:42 pm   Post subject:   

Here's the thing MIke...I deal with the 'real truth' and 'real' shop's, owners, and techs all day long, five days a week, 40-60 hours a week..I KNOW the REAL truth...of course now you are going to say that all the shop I deal with are wrong...blah blah...that's fine, you are welcome to that opinion, and your 'version' of the truth...why are we not allowed to have our own? If it doesn't agree with yours it's arrogance? hmmmmmmm...pot/kettle, kettle/pot....We've tried this before, let's try it again...you keep your opinion and version of the 'truth' and we'll keep ours...k?



We don't come to your board in an attempt to cause disruption because we know that the ten or so regular contributors would not agree with pretty much ANYTHING we had to say, most particular coming from an adjuster....they won't even LISTEN to an opposing view from their 'own kind' why would they from their 'arch enemy' (adjusters/ins company/claims)...seriously Mike....You keep preachin' what you're preachin' we'll keep doing what we do, and leave it at that....



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:26 am   Post subject:   

So, I take it you do not plan on listening or calling in to share your version of the truth. Rolling Eyes Or to listen to the truth. It's okay to attack someone with a different perspective and point of view here, but it's not okay to be the center of attention or to be challenged on another board with what you perceive to be the truth?



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:39 pm   Post subject:   

What do you fix like one car a month? geeeeeeeeze you've got a lot of time on your hands Rolling Eyes Sorry "I" don't have that much time....Mike what on earth would it prove? Well actually you know what I wouldn't mind listening to it if I'm home...you don't say the date I don't think or is it every day at 11am? I really would be interested in listening to it...if I do get the opportunity, I'll let you know what I thought...



Here's the thing though Mike...for instance..you contend the insurer has no right to inspect the car, use non-oem parts etc, have the vehicle repaired by thier estimate..I show you right in the (MO) policy where it says that is not the case...that the insured's are contractually bound to that...but you don't comment on that...just like I never said it...I didn't make that stuff up Mike, I copied it directly from the policy...your little friend even agrees it's true...but you won't admit the 'truth'..I have nothing to do with the writing of these contracts...I simply have to work by them, I don't make any decisions regarding the insurance laws of the great state of MO, again I (like you) just have to live and work by them.



Let me ask you something what religion are you? Do you believe in God, Christ? Well I do, so what possible reason would I have in going to say an athiest site and posting ? Is ANYTHING I'd say going to be taken as truth? Of course not....Your favorite board has alot of people that complain over and over, with the possible expection of one or two people that actually try to do anything about their complaints...it's just a rant site, nothing is accomplished, when a person with a solid question or opinion asks something they are attacked ...actually to illustrate my point here is a post by a person on that board that explains it very well...



Quote:
It seems that I hear the same thing over and over again in here. What are you guys really accomplishing in here other than venting. Same old sh*(&. Who is doing. What is being accomplished. Some dude makes a post that Norton products are a good alternative to 3m because of the price and nobody responds to this. Come on guys whats really going on other than so and so's law suit and some advocate with his witty want a be attorney b.s. As long as we have this kind of leadershp in our industry we will never achieve what is really necessary for us to progress as an industry. Lets wake up and do something real. And don't tell me about some guy in South Carolinas law suit against allstate insurance company. Our problem is much larger than this. Lets grow some stones and do something. If you all are affraid of showing your name I will do that. Contact me. Only serious apply.




While we're discussing that site what does *NM* mean?



Also here is a post you posted that is INCORRECT...
Quote:
The insurance appraiser that responded to the article works for a company that does not figure used or aftermarket parts, so he doesn't really see the big picture at all. The other insurance board moderator has Drp shops that she writes for but she does not write for a/m either, so she says.
You definately got confused I do write a/m parts ALL THE TIME...and have NEVER said I didn't...(you'll have to find that post buddy cause there ain't one)...You got confused somewhere Mike...I have certain critera, yr/mileage etc..only CAPA, no structure, etc...but this is an untrue statement, (let me enterject I don't think you intentionally lied about it, just got confused...)



Wow, while going thru the threads over there looky what I found...
Quote:
I would like to apologize to Lori at ampminsure. We all see something different. I can tell that she genuinely cares about the people that she is trying to help and it was wrong of me to be critical of her or label her in an earlier post.
Whoever that is...please sincerely thank "mini me" for me..He/She didn't have to say/post that, and it took some pretty big, (well you know), to post that on that site....I'm being very sincere....



You know Mike when you first started posting here I thought, 'well here's a smart guy, we don't agree on every point, but he's intelligent enough to understand that 'his' opinion isn't the only one that is valid...That we can all just maybe learn a little something from each other...sadly I was well, just wrong it appears....I've said it before I'll say it again, if you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem...what are YOU doing Mike Orton to help the desparate situation that you find yourself in...??? Fussin', fightin' particularly 'in fighting' name calling...spouting rhetoric without substantiation, what have YOU accomplished?



To set the record straight for you, I do not get paid ONE CENT to moderate here...I get the same thing you do to post here...I'm not promoting any secretly held company/business I have. I'm here in an effort to help posters/questioners with insurance (mostly claims) related issues...When a company or adjuster appears to be doing something wrong..I'm the first to point it out and try and find an answer or remedy for the poster...I calls em as I sees em..If an adjuster is jerking someone around I say so and tell them how to get it stopped....



Likewise I wish you would use your vast knowledge for 'good'. Why not post on boards where people have collision repair complaints or questions about repairing vehicles? You would actually be contributing then. And maybe taking just a little bit of the load off of someone else....think about it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:49 pm   Post subject:   

You asked
Quote:
...you don't say the date I don't think or is it every day at 11am? I really would be interested in listening to it...if I do get the opportunity, I'll let you know what I thought...




I wrote yesterday

Quote:
You know you might man up and call into tomorrow anonymously, if you prefer, and challenge Ms. Eversman on an interview program broadcast in Seattle.




Allow me to retort.

Using the same investigative skills that you used to find my entire name, I should think you would be able to figure out that when posted on a Friday, tomorrow would be the next day or today. By the way, all the insurance claims managers already know my full name in Southwest Missouri. Did that give you some vicarious thrill thinking you were outing me?



Quote:
What do you fix like one car a month? geeeeeeeeze you've got a lot of time on your hands Sorry "I" don't have that much time...




There you go worrying about my schedule and time. I post here about 180 times in 5 months and you post a gazillion, what's that got to do with the price of rice in China? Just more baiting trying to keep me posting by being derogative and demeaning?



Quote:
Here's the thing though Mike...for instance..you contend the insurer has no right to inspect the car, use non-oem parts etc, have the vehicle repaired by thier estimate..I show you right in the (MO) policy where it says that is not the case...that the insured's are contractually bound to that...




Please show me where I wrote specifically those statements with regard to first party claims.



Quote:
Likewise I wish you would use your vast knowledge for 'good'. Why not post on boards where people have collision repair complaints or questions about repairing vehicles? You would actually be contributing then. And maybe taking just a little bit of the load off of someone else....think about it.




I'll strive to continue to help consumers get the full indemnification they are owed instead of the write only what you can see and hope they don't fix the car or take it to the drp shop that'll discount the repair to the insurer estimates that insurers write.



You have a different belief in what the problem is. I believe it is inexperienced, biased, short sheeting appraisers and the drp shops that conspire with insurers to underpay claims and harm both shops and consumers. By being an entirely independent business and having no repair agreements with insurers I can avoid those situations. I can inform and educate the consumer and be their advocate instead of the insurer/shop representative.



I believe drp one sided agreements by insurers are the problem and the shops that agree to be their partners until the insurer no longer needs them and throws them under the bus. The problem is that too many collision businesses that should be in business for themselves to serve consumers are subserviant to insurers and there in lies the problem not the solution. They are the Kool-aid drinkers. Why are they just now universally complaining and nationally uprising against insurance tyranny? They do not see insurance steering and abuse of shops a problem until it happens to them and their insurance pimp finds new shops that will turn tricks cheap and faster further underserving the consumer and kicks that shop off the program.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:53 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Using the same investigative skills that you used to find my entire name, .
OK, now you made me spit my coffee on the keyboard!!!! First of all Mr. Sharp as a Marble, that took ZERO investigative skills since you post with your entire name on the very site (prodiscussions) andyou are continually sending us there! Rolling EyesRolling Eyes or did you not realize that? man, Mike that's almost funny, if it were not so pathically paranoid Rolling EyesRolling Eyes Here I'll show you...
Quote:
Erica's Response to the adjuster's comment Mike Orton -- Tuesday, 24 June 2008, at 5:59




You still didn't tell me what ''*Nm*" means...?????????? Confused Enquiring minds want to know.......



Quote:
I should think you would be able to figure out that when posted on a Friday, tomorrow would be the next day or today
I caught that Mike, I just did not understand if it was just that one day a week or if perhaps it aired daily but you were sourcing that particular airing based on guest or topic....geeeeeeeze

Quote:
instead of the write only what you can see
You all got x-ray vision down there in the southern part of the state? Come on Mike, what do you suggest that an adjuster write when they are in the field inspecting a vehicle at a persons home, place of employment etc? You and I know that most people with a driveable vehicle will not commit to putting it in the shop right then when full tear down can be accomplished...When someone comes to your shop for an estimate what do you write? If you cannot see the absorber, rebar and rear body panel are you putting them on the estimate? If you are then you are not writing an acturate estimate, and may just be commiting fraud by saying they need replaced without EVER seeing them..Or are you writing to replace that rear cover, and then a line note or in the comment area putting something along the lines of, "additional damage to rebar/absorber etc. possible tear down need to ascertain full extent of damage''? That's what you should be writing....Once the car is in the shop and torn down and this damage is visible, when have you not got an adjuster to pay for this additional hidden damage? And if you did have this happen...simple solution, you stop working on the car till the adjuster gets there to do the supp, or agrees to it and you NEVER release a car till you have money in hand...The owners are of great assistance in getting these lazy adjusters to get off their duffs, just sick the owners on them...That's what I did when I worked in a shop, but it was a very rare occurance. Again, just what is YOUR solution for this Mike? Do you expect ANYONE to pay for something that they cannot see is damaged? If you do, then send me about oh, a grand because reading your posts have damaged the screen on my computer (not to mention my eyes and brain) and wormed their way into my drives, tower and modem (can't you tell I don't know squat about computers Wink ), you don't need to see the damage you caused, it's there, just pay me... Rolling Eyes
Quote:
the drp shop that'll discount the repair
Don't know how many times you have to be told this...the company I work for, AND the one and only drp contract you provided show NO discounts...period..now I'm not saying that 'maybe' (cause I don't know) some carrier do have discounts but I do know that ALL don't...and I'm not even sure ANY do anymore...
Quote:
You have a different belief in what the problem is. I believe it is inexperienced, biased, short sheeting appraisers and the drp shops that conspire with insurers to underpay claims and harm both shops and consumers. By being an entirely independent business and having no repair agreements with insurers I can avoid those situations. I can inform and educate the consumer and be their advocate instead of the insurer/shop representative.
I'll agree with you in part, we certainly do have a differing opinions as to the problem or what's at the root of the problem...but I do agree, that
Quote:
inexperienced, biased, short sheeting appraisers
are a problem, but I also believe there are not that many of them...I disagree that drp shops ''conspire'' to underpay claims...they do I suppose (dependent upon your view) ''conspire'' against shops that are in their area that are not drps to get the lions share of the business/market..
Quote:
I can inform and educate the consumer and be their advocate instead of the insurer/shop representative
But you are the (your) shop representative, and you CANNOT be non-biased advocate because you want the job!!!!! I mean atleast admit that! How can you possibly be a non-biased (same with your whole DV claim biz) ''advocate'' ...when you are in the buisness to make money from the very thing you are ranting about???? How can you be non-biased on either one? You can't...and that's fine, you're in business to make money, I see no harm in that...but be honest about it!
Quote:
I believe drp one sided agreements by insurers are the problem and the shops that agree to be their partners until the insurer no longer needs them and throws them under the bus. The problem is that too many collision businesses that should be in business for themselves to serve consumers are subserviant to insurers and there in lies the problem not the solution. They are the Kool-aid drinkers
Ok, then you are making my point...why are you not (also) trolling every single collision repair board with this? THAT is the place you might be able to get to someone...since this is where YOU see the problem...with the shops not with the insurer, the shops that sign the drp contracts right? Then go after them, and change THEIR opinions...you'd have a better shot (well maybe) at that..do you thing ANY adjuster on this site wrote a drp agreement? I'd bet not! nor have they signed one! But the shop owners are the ones you have the beef with..change their minds...
Quote:
Why are they just now universally complaining and nationally uprising against insurance tyranny?
Since this is what I do all day, every day, you'd think I have heard about this 'national uprising' ( Rolling Eyes geeeeeeze the drama) ...only ones I ever hear ticked off are the ones that don't qualify to be a drp...seriously...my shops ain't complainin' (well about that Laughing )....
Quote:
They do not see insurance steering and abuse of shops a problem until it happens to them and their insurance pimp finds new shops that will turn tricks cheap and faster further underserving the consumer and kicks that shop off the program
Why do you always have to talk so dirty? All of your euphemisms are of a sexual nature... what's up with that?
Quote:
Did that give you some vicarious thrill thinking you were outing me?
Well first of all doesn't "vicarious'' mean to experience something secondhand? How does that make sense? And secondly (and again), I wasn't ''outting'' you when you post using that name on the board you attempt to send us to all the time...didn't think it would bother you in the slightest honestly...why would it WHEN YOU POST THERE USING IT !!! OH, WAIT A SECOND!!!!!!!!! Are you actually upset that I posted something you wrote from another site without asking your permission? If so I'm so terrible sorry...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:06 pm   Post subject:   

You spend way too much time worrying about me, take the day off, for gosh sakes. You prattle on and rattle just like those cars fixed at some of those insurer preferred repair shops.



NM! means No Message., you simply could have asked someone over there while you were stalking. Rolling Eyes Someone as sharp as a tack like you should have been able to deduce that by realizing there simply being no message content that followed.



Quote:
OK, now you made me spit my coffee on the keyboard!!!! First of all Mr. Sharp as a Marble, that took ZERO investigative skills since you post with your entire name on the very site (prodiscussions) andyou are continually sending us there! or did you not realize that? man, Mike that's almost funny, if it were not so pathically paranoid Here I'll show you...




My very point. I do not hide behind ficticious names, If I use my real name here, you'd simply say I was hawking. You making the connection, was a sarcastic reference to the ability of a non professional repairer discovering what lies beneath those fascias you are not allowed to use a creeper and lite to discover. Those that do not use their real name at that board live in fear of the boogey men and women in the insurance industry cutting their umbilical cords from their drp drip. They are there seeking answers on how to secure their livelihoods from the very nooses they placed around their necks by trying to work with insurers and be their partners. Geez Louise, I'd never suspect that you would ever be able to ascertain my identity by giving you the evidence. CSI Missouri?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:32 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
you simply could have asked someone over there while you were stalking
Mike, how am I stalking when you keep 'inviting' us to go over there and read to 'educate' ourselves? Rolling Eyes
Quote:
Those that do not use their real name at that board live in fear of the boogey men and women in the insurance industry cutting their umbilical cords from their drp drip.
So that's what you think of your beloved 'advocate' ( Rolling EyesWink ) and many many more I could list? hmmmmmm wonder if they know how much you think of them Question
Quote:
ability of a non professional repairer discovering what lies beneath those fascias you are not allowed to use a creeper and lite to discover
Come on Mike, must I find and list vehicles whose covers go completely under, hinding the absorber, and rebar? really? That's just dumb...You know perfectly well that there are vehicles that these parts are totally obsured...without removal of the covers.
Quote:
Geez Louise, I'd never suspect that you would ever be able to ascertain my identity by giving you the evidence. CSI Missouri?
Now, My point exactly...what's the big whoop? Rolling EyesRolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:27 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Quote:

Those that do not use their real name at that board live in fear of the boogey men and women in the insurance industry cutting their umbilical cords from their drp drip.

So that's what you think of your beloved 'advocate' ( ) and many many more I could list? hmmmmmm wonder if they know how much you think of them




He is not a collision repairer, he is an attorney, or so he says, and based on the information provided over the last three years, he has been accurate in his prognostications and legal explanations. He needs no separation from a drp umbilical cord.



Quote:
Mike, how am I stalking when you keep 'inviting' us to go over there and read to 'educate' ourselves?




Insurers mining and presenting in court statements made by posters there, is common practice. I wouldn't expect you to do nothing less. Jump in the water is fine over there.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:21 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Come on Mike, must I find and list vehicles whose covers go completely under, hinding the absorber, and rebar? really? That's just dumb...You know perfectly well that there are vehicles that these parts are totally obsured...without removal of the covers.




www.voscope.com/page3.html



Git yourself one of these if you can't see under the bumper, should be standard equipment for an appraiser along with a pair of coveralls and a creeper and a lite.



They come in handy looking to see if those shops replaced or insurers paid for corrosion protection inside frame rails and quarters. They can be used to look behind covers to take video or digital pics of damage. All part of the Post repair Diminished Value inspectors tool kit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:37 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
They come in handy looking to see if those shops replaced or insurers paid for corrosion protection inside frame rails and quarters.
I'd save the expense in determining if the insurance company paid for corrosion protection (or anything else) and simply look at the appraisal they wrote. Can't see the need for an appraiser to have one of these... they can simply reinspect the vehicle once it's disassembled. Pretty much every shop I know of does the same thing.
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