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 Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:02 pm Post subject: life insurance going to court?? |
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When a life insurance policy gets turned over to the state what happens?
Do you go in front of a judge, judge and jury, or arbitrator? How does this person make a decision? what kind of questions do they ask?
How do they pick the venue? Can you request a change of venue if you feel the court may not be impartial?
Basically what should you expect?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I would 'think' it would be in the probate court of the county where the person that past, resided, or died...and yes I would further 'think' the judge would make the decision, of course a person could always appeal, I would suppose
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: |
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Depending on the state you live in (a state of confusion doesn't count), the court will appoint someone to oversee, and potentially moderate, your particular case. Don't stress out over what you should do and what you should be ready for. If you are truly entitled to anything, either as a executor or beneficiary, someone [should] literally take you by the hand and walk you through the process.
| Quote: | Do you go in front of a judge, judge and jury, or arbitrator? How does this person make a decision? what kind of questions do they ask?
How do they pick the venue? Can you request a change of venue if you feel the court may not be impartial? |
There isn't really anything you can do but just sit back and enjoy the ride. Unless you're counting on the California court system. That ride never ends.
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InsInvestigator
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: |
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I am the executor and I was an original ben., although I am not currently listed as ben. There are other assests in this estate which currently I am being forced to use to settle the estate however these assets are also my inheritance, so of course I would like to keep them. As executor can I ask for the debts of the estate and win or are these procedes off limits
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I was an original ben., although I am not currently listed as ben. |
huh? how did this happen? did the decendent change it? | Quote: | | As executor can I ask for the debts of the estate and win or are these procedes off limits____ |
What debts and why would you want them?
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Good points Lori.
In my opinion, this particular quote has "trouble" written all over it.
| Quote: | | I am the executor and I was an original ben., although I am not currently listed as ben. |
To me, this means that you will be administering the estate and someone else will be reaping the rewards. This usually results in conflict between family members.
| Quote: | | There are other assests in this estate which currently I am being forced to use to settle the estate. |
Are you having to sell property/things of value in order to meet the 90-day estate tax requirement? Are you having to sell things in order to pay the final bills? What needs to be "settled?" Was this a big estate?
| Quote: | | these assets are also my inheritance, so of course I would like to keep them. |
Now were right back to the beneficiary (or lack thereof) issue. What will the named beneficiary(ies) say about you getting to keep certain assets?
Lori already asked the question about you keeping the debts so I won't rekindle that one.
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Please feel free to go to my website at www.markcolbert.com or, if you have a specific question, you can email me directly. I hope I can answer any questions you might have. If not, I can certainly find an answer right away. |
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InsInvestigator
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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yeah Mark I agree...seeing trouble here.....  hopefully the OP will return with additional information, thus reaping (your) experience and good advise...
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: |
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Hmmmmm, Original Poster has a convoluted first post and second post is equally unclear.
Let's clear up some "contractual" things first.
Life insurance proceeds are paid DIRECTLY to the named beneficiaries of the contract.
Period.
End of Story.
There is no such thing as a life insurance policy getting turned over to the state. The ONLY way the proceeds would enter Probate Court would be if "The Estate" was listed as the beneficiary or ALL primary and contingent beneficiaries had predeceased the Insured. Only then would it become part of the Probate Estate.
Being an "Executor" under someone's Last Will & Testament and being a beneficiary under someone's life insurance policy have nothing to do with each other.
A person's Last Will DOES NOT control life insurance proceeds, annuity contracts or property held in Joint Tenancy, etc.
Executors of a person's Estate are entitled to compensation.
This thread is an example of fragmented Estate Planning and lack of knowledge on the part of the General Public regarding what happens when a person dies.
Of course that's just human nature. No one likes to talk about death in general and especially their's in particular.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:11 am Post subject: insurance |
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| Now...............confused on something. I'm in the Military. I ahve a Life Insurance policy through them. In my 'Military' will, I have my POA in CONTROL of my Life Insurance(who gets what..according to the Life Insurance.) The comment above is, "a person's last will does not control life insurance proceeds." If this is true, than what do I need to do to 'fix' it? If anything? |
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sdchargersfan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:42 am Post subject: |
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sdchargersfan,
Whomever you named as beneficiary on your life insurance gets the life insurance death benefit. This may or may not be the same person(s) you've named as beneficiary in your will.
Whomever you named as beneficiary on your will gets titled property (house, car, bank account, stocks, bonds, mutual funds etc.) that you owned individually upon your death.
Your attorney-in-fact under your Power-of-Attorney takes care of your financial dealings if you are unable or away and while you are ALIVE. Upon death the POA is revoked by operation of law and property you owned individually then goes through Probate Court before is passes to your beneficaries under your Will.
There may or may not be things that need to be fixed. It depends on what you own and how it's owned.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Life insurance proceeds are paid DIRECTLY to the named beneficiaries of the contract.
Period.
End of Story. |
Hate to have to correct you there Gary, but there are rare occurances, (i know from personal experience, perhaps just my area)....
In the case where a life policy is thru an employer, and the employee dies, with an ''ex'' spouse listed as the beneficiary AND had remarried...it is ASSUMED that they simply forgot to change it to their present spouse....If an employee wants to maintain the 'ex' as beneficiary they have to fill out an additional form that (in effect) says, 'yep I know I have my ex as beneficary and that's what I want'....this however is the ONLY cases where I have seen this....
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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Lori,
I'm from Missouri so you'd have to "Show Me" the exact case where the named beneficiary DID NOT get the death benefit and it was paid to someone else NOT named as beneficiary.
You wrote:
| Quote: | | In the case where a life policy is thru an employer, and the employee dies, with an ''ex'' spouse listed as the beneficiary AND had remarried...it is ASSUMED that they simply forgot to change it to their present spouse |
That statement is not correct.
Why would a present SECOND spouse have any more rights to the death benefit rather than a son or daughter or brother or sister or mother or father?
The only way that would be remotely correct would be IF the master group life contract stated that in the case of divorce the ex-spouse as primary beneficiary would be treated as if the ex-spouse predeceased the insured. Then the proceeds would be paid to the named contingent beneficiaries or to the Estate.
I stand by my statement:
Life insurance proceeds are paid DIRECTLY to the named beneficiaries of the contract.
Period.
End of Story.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Well, well well....it appears that Lori and myself are correct and incorrect.
I suppose we should type in for which state we are making our assertions.
Check out THIS Missouri statute.
| Quote: | | 461.051. 1. If, after an owner makes a beneficiary designation, the owner's marriage is dissolved or annulled, any provision of the beneficiary designation in favor of the owner's former spouse or a relative of the owner's former spouse is revoked on the date the marriage is dissolved or annulled, whether or not the beneficiary designation refers to marital status. The beneficiary designation shall be given effect as if the former spouse or relative of the former spouse had disclaimed the revoked provision. |
THAT is a pathetic piece of legislation. There are many reasons why someone may still want their ex-spouse as a beneficiary. That legislation does nothing more than cause a non-probate asset to be caught up in the probate court system whereby NO ONE can ask the owner of the policy since they're dead.
Now let's contrast that with Florida:
See THIS link.
| Quote: | 222.13 Life insurance policies; disposition of proceeds.--
(1) Whenever any person residing in the state shall die leaving insurance on his or her life, the said insurance shall inure exclusively to the benefit of the person for whose use and benefit such insurance is designated in the policy, and the proceeds thereof shall be exempt from the claims of creditors of the insured unless the insurance policy or a valid assignment thereof provides otherwise. Notwithstanding the foregoing, whenever the insurance, by designation or otherwise, is payable to the insured or to the insured's estate or to his or her executors, administrators, or assigns, the insurance proceeds shall become a part of the insured's estate for all purposes and shall be administered by the personal representative of the estate of the insured in accordance with the probate laws of the state in like manner as other assets of the insured's estate. |
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Lori,
I'm from Missouri . |
That's great Gary, as you can see so am I!   What part are you in?
| Quote: | | so you'd have to "Show Me" the exact case where the named beneficiary DID NOT get the death benefit and it was paid to someone else NOT named as beneficiary |
You ultimately did this yourself...I appreciate that while you got very 'passionate' about pointing out how wrong I was that you did research it to find out...that I wasn't all wet... 
| Quote: | | owner's former spouse is revoked on the date the marriage is dissolved or annulled, |
I TOLD you! Now please take these back Gary... | Quote: | | That statement is not correct. |
| Quote: | I stand by my statement:
Life insurance proceeds are paid DIRECTLY to the named beneficiaries of the contract.
Period.
End of Story. |
| Quote: | | I suppose we should type in for which state we are making our assertions. |
'I' did, friend...seee | Quote: | | (i know from personal experience, perhaps just my area).... |
| Quote: | | THAT is a pathetic piece of legislation. There are many reasons why someone may still want their ex-spouse as a beneficiary |
I agree dude, I didn't write it...just know it to be true... Ok, so we can say that (as I stated) atleast in Missouri, which is where we reside...it's true...Don't feel too bad, this topic came up directly on another post (guy wanted exwife to be bene...and ex worried how to make sure that happened) another great agent, jumped all over me too, (in a nice way) then ask his wife who is some type of administrator over employee benefits, and she too said, 'yep, she's right' (and it wasn't MO)...anyway, I found this out two ways...first (as far as I know) this applys to ALL employee 401K accounts (i know they aren't life ins. but they are a lot of money and they do name a beneficiary)...you must complete an additional form should you want to keep your 'ex' as beneficary...Secondly my younger brother died two years ago, he and his wife, were divorced although they still lived together as married, and have two daughters...she was beneficary on all of his policys...which was what he wanted...(he never remarried)...you would'nt believe the paper work we all had to go thru to make sure she still got all of his money...it was a nightmare....I agree totally a beneficary should stand...however, as I said, apparently they are of the assumption that the decendant just 'forgot' to change it... 
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Lori,
I'm from Missouri with from being the operative word.
St. Louis is/was my hometown.
Okay, I'll amend my declarative statement:
IN FLORIDA
Life insurance proceeds are paid DIRECTLY to the named beneficiaries of the contract.
Period.
End of Story.
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