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 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: hit and run claims are not easy to settle |
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| Right after our son moved from Tucson, Arizona, to Washington state he was rear-ended by a hit & run street racer at 70-75 miles an hour. Both cars were totaled. The racer and two buddies jumped out of their car and fled the scene. Luckily, my son had only minor injuries. Since the accident, the police agencies are doing nothing but bouncing our son around from the Washington State Patrol to the Pierce County Sheriff's to the Puyallup Police Department. (I am married to a retired police officer and expected much more from them than that.) My son can't even get the insurance information from the owner of the car that hit him. The owner won't answer his phone or answer the door at his residence. Is there any other way to find out if this car is insured?...and if so, who it is insured by? The owner of the car told the police the car was stolen. Right! There is NO stolen car report filed. At this point, this hit & run driver, who could have seriously injured or even killed my son is getting away with it. I don't like this! Our son's insurance company took care of his medical bills through his uninsured motorist bodily injury coverage, but you can't get uninsured motorist coverage in Arizona (he still had his Arizona coverage), which would have covered his totaled car. I can't express how difficult it is to get a hit and run claim settled. The guy driving this car needs to be held responsible for his actions. Any kind of help or advice about ANY of this would be greatly appreciated. |
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LookingForAnswers
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:24 am Post subject: |
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There are a couple options.
You can try calling your son's insurance company and see if they tried subrogating against the other party for repayment of what they paid out for the injuries. Many times, if the person receives notice of subrogation(and they HAVE insurance), they'll fess up on who their carrier is.
If they have not had any luck, you can have the person served. Depending on the value of the car, you may be able to file suit for such a hit and run claim in a small claims court. If not, an attorney will be your best bet.
A lawsuit is usually the best way to grab someone's attention. |
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MBTexas
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Good morning LookingForAnswers, and welcome to the community, I'm so sorry this happen and glad to read your son wasn't seriously injured...
Apparently your son did not have collision coverage on his vehicle correct? Because that would've taken care of his damage......
Here is the problem...
| Quote: | | Is there any other way to find out if this car is insured?...and if so, who it is insured by? |
| Quote: | | Our son's insurance company took care of his medical bills through his uninsured motorist bodily injury coverage, |
I assure you no insurance carrier will even open a reserve under an insured's uninsured motorist and will certainly not issue payment unless that have ascertained that vehicle is indeed uninsured....Apparently your boy's carrier had proof that there was no insurance (if it was stolen then the rightful owners policy would not apply)....So I think you more than likely are out of luck....Your son's adjuster should be able to tell him what they found out, how they determined the vehicle was uninsured....
I'll give you a couple of ideas to try and track the coverage, but again doubt it will do any good....
Contact the DMV in the state the vehicle was registered, some states maintain the information of proof of ins when the vehicle was registerd....
What tow company towed that vehicle ? (might be on the report if your son doesn't remember) contact that tow company and see if they will tell you where they took the vehicle then contact that place see if it's still there or has an ins adjuster came and inspected it? If so who was it....you have to be very nice and 'smooze' to get this information with all the privacy stuff now, they really can't tell you, or certainly don't have to, but most will if they feel they can help you...
Again start with your son's adjuster and see what they found out...
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Lori
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| This is unbelievable that the local police will not help, are they even chasing the guys down for the hit and run or are they getting away with it too? |
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goodnatured
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Hit & Run Street Racer will not reveal insurance coverag |
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| I am completely blown away and extremely grateful for the respones to our frustrating situation. Trying to keep my first post as brief as possible, I didn't mention certain steps already taken by us. My husband and I went up to Washington state to try to help our son with some of the footwork (since the police were doing nothing to help him). We sat down with his present Allstate insurance agent (who was extremely welcoming and nice to us). When we told her there was no stolen car report, she immediately called the adjuster in charge of the claim. The adjuster had NO stolen car report, and said, because the accident report (taken at the scene) had stated that the car was being reported stolen (third hand information) at the same time of the accident, they were not going to pursue the owner of the car for any damages. Remeber, the hit & run driver and his two buddies fled the scene and had plenty of opportunity to call in a stolen car claim. All they had to do was contact the police records department to learn there was NO stolen car report filed. My husband was THE auto theft detective in Tacoma, Washington, for 6 years. He knows how to find out if there was a stolen car report; and there was none. But the insurance company chose to rely on the WSP accident report written by someone who, obviously, didn't care about the accident (judging by the WSP officer's actions after the fact). THIS WAS VERY FRUSTRATING. Because of this decision, we can't get any help from Allstate. About my son's collision insurance coverage: He had full coverage and was an Allstate "Gold Member" when he moved to Arizona from Washington two years earlier. His car was paid for but still elected to continue the collision coverage for damage to his vehicle. He had his Gold coverage transferred to an agent in Tucson. The ONLY change he requested involved his limits of liability. He signed the papers in Tucson without reading them. (A BIG mistake on his part.) He didn't notice that the agent had left out the collision coverage for his car. And that change was NOT made known to him by this agent. He found it out after the accident. That was his fault, and we feel, also the agent's fault. His agent in Washington also found it odd since he had the full coverage in WA BEFORE he moved to Tucson, and maintained it again (at the same office) after he moved back to WA, and BEFORE this accident. Because he failed to notice the mistake and signed the papers in the first place, there doesn't appear any where we can go with this. A very hard life lesson to learn! His current agent also mentioned that without the collision coverage on his car, the Gold coverage (which is still what the AZ company called it on his paperwork) was not really Gold coverage. The WA Allatate agent had nothing to show if the hit & run car was insured or not insured. Small claims court seems to be a viable direction to go. We'll also try contacting the WA state DMV. Arizona maintains proof of insurance information; I fear WA state doesn't. But we'll certainly check. We'll also see if we can figure out what towing company towed that car. When my son went to claim his car at the towing yard, he asked to see the other car. He wanted to see if there were signs of someone "hot wiring" it. The tow company said the other car wasn't there. Later he learned the auto theft "victim" claimed the keys were in the car when it was stolen. How convenient! With no stolen car report and no help from all three police agencies, I don't know how we'll get anywhere. However, I'm angry enough to call every tow company in Pierce County to get some information. Anger is a great motivator!. Even though I'm angry, I totally agree that it is very important to keep your head and be "authentically" nice when making such inquiries. Trust me to do just that. I thought a hit & hit was a criminal offense. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't understand why the police are not doing SOMETHING about this. Believe me, I know, from being married to a police officer and then police detective for all 25 years of his career, that the police department can't drop everything to address YOUR problem; but come on. I expected SOMETHING from them...And we have received NOTHING. In closing, I want to address one more thing. That is the question: If the reporting WSP officer was given the information over her radio at the scene that the offending car was stolen, why wasn't a stolen car report filed? From experience, my husband suggests that the initial call claiming the car was stolen was questionable, because of the timing; so they would not, at that time, accept the car was actually stolen without further investigation. In the end, no report was filed. I feel like a just wrote a book! Sorry. |
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LookingForAnswers
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | A very hard life lesson to learn! |
Man, poor kid, you're right though, what a lesson...NEVER sign anything without reading it...
I'm just shocked that Allstate didn't do a better job of investigating this...I've worked for two carriers as an adjuster (over twenty years all toll) and neither would've done this....Unfortunately, there are two problems here, if you prove the vehicle was indeed insured and NOT stolen then Allstate should not have opened or paid a UM claim...now, would he (your boy) have to pay it back? Doubt they would know, but that is a possiblity you should be aware of....
I think tracking that car from the tow lot, (another thing the VIN should be on the police car, try and trace that first to see if it's already been sold, also a VIN search will show the lein holder most of the time, you could also try and smooze them into finding out the insurance carrier..) then after you have proof of no theft then small claims is likely your only recourse...really though you don't need them to be insured to file a small claims action against the owner of the vehicle if you think you can prove they either knew about it or were driving...
| Quote: | | I thought a hit & hit was a criminal offense. Maybe I'm wrong. |
Of course it is but 'they' are under the assumption that the hit and run was done by a car thief...all these are vital info for a hit and run claim | Quote: | | I don't understand why the police are not doing SOMETHING about this |
I don't either have you contacted the police dept and ask for assistance from them? RE: if a theft why no report, what is being done to find the thief etc?
I'm so sorry for your family about this...you have been let down by both your carrier (twice) and the police dept....shame...Please do let us know if we can assist anymore, and also please keep us updated on your progress...I'd love to read a happy ending to this story..
Don't worry about long posts, too much information is way better than too little 
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| What a sad story. I too feel for you and your son. The police seem to really let you guys down here. This is even more upsetting cause of your husband being in law enforcement. If you could find out anything on the driver and maybe your son could recoup some of his losses in small claim but the police would have to get interested in this matter so they can help you. Stop back and let us know how everything is working out for your family and let us know if we can further assist you with this hit and run claim. |
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fireyone
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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There are two key points I wanted to be sure I understood...
The police are not doing much on a hit and run accident, when they know what vehicle was in the accident? Also, any report they completed does not contain the insurance insurance of the owner of that vehicle? If this is correct... it's crap. I'd highly recommend your son move up the chain of command at the police dept. They should take a hit and run seriously (if they can identify the vehicle) as it's a criminal offense (felony as injuries are involved)! A report needs to be turned over to the DA for possible prosecution. Also, anytime a vehicle is involved in an accident, the police need to confirm the vehicle has a valid registration and insurance. There is no reason why this information should not be on the police report. If the car was stolen, then the owners carrier can deny the claim. Which leads me to my second question...
If I understood correctly, the owner of the vehicle is simply stating that the vehicle was stolen. This was reported to the police after the accident happened. The owner then claimed that they keys were left in the vehicle. The adjuster for the owner carrier is accepting this information and denying the claim as the vehicle was "stolen". Is this correct? Unfortunately, this is a problem as it really relies on the adjuster doing a good job and knowing what to do in this type of situation. Bottom line is that the adjuster could just go by their insureds statement and the fact that a theft report was turned into the police and deny the claim. But a good adjuster will obtain a recorded statement from their insured and know what questions to ask. I'd ask where the car was parked that the owner left the keys in it. Where was the owner at the time. Does the owner usually just leave the keys in the car. Who else lives in the household (I'd first ask your son to describe the driver of the other vehicle to see if it matches anyone in the owners house). Who else has driven the vehicle in the last 3 months. The adjuster can also see if the driver of the vehicle matches the owners description and where the owner was at the time of the accident. There are many more questions that can be thrown at the owner to see if they have good answers. But the police _really_ need to be doing this as well! They can let the owner know that it's a _serious_ crime to file a false police report. They then ask the owner some hard questions and can see of he/she falls apart.
People cause an accident and run all the time. People them claim that the vehicle was stolen all the time. If someone crashes into a car and then runs, they are pretty much scum and it's like scum to lie to the police and their insurance company.
I'd highly recommend you son contact the PD and speak to the officers supervisor to make sure they they do the job they are getting paid for. If they won't, perhaps the majors office or the news stations would like to know about the situation. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks for helping the OP out here Tscope. I really felt bad when I read this post. I never knew that if someone said their car was stolen that their insurance company didn't have to pay. I always wondered why people would bother flleeing an accident sceen. I thought it was just to avoid prosecution but after reading this I see there are more reasons they may be doing it. I feel like you do..these people are scums and can really mess up someone else's life over stupidity. |
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fireyone
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:20 am Post subject: |
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This reminds me of a situation I had with an insured. Someone had run into him one night and took off. When the police arrived, my insured gave them his statement and while surveying the seen, my insured had noticed the other party's bumper had fallen off.
The police allowed him to keep the bumper(which he was lucky since it comes into play later) but they had to keep the LICENSE PLATE!
My insured called me to ask what he should do. I went over his options, having collision and uninsured motorist. As the discussion drew to a close, he decided to wait and see what the police found out.
He would call me each week to let me know he still had not heard anything after calling once or twice a week. After about 3 weeks, I started really pushing for him to set the claim up on his policy so we can go ahead and get it fixed. He wanted to wait a little longer to see if the police would call back with anything.
At this time, I decided to see what I could find out. He had written down the license plate number and gave it to me. I had a site that I could verify vehicles registered at an address and all drivers licensed at the address by it's license plate number or address. I found the car involved and it's VIN and the owner's name and address. I was then able to run a claim check on the VIN and a claim showed up on that date. It listed the carrier and that's when I knew we had this one figured out.
I had gathered this information over a time frame of about 2 weeks and kept the insured informed each step of the way. As I found out more, he decided to see if I could get it taken care of since he still had not heard anything from the police.
Well, I gave him the carrier name and told him to call the claims office and try and speak with the adjuster. He was able to get through to the adjuster and the adjuster confirmed the claim paid out under their uninsured motorist because they were a victim of HIT AND RUN!
He gave his version of the story and asked the adjuster...if they were victim of hit and run, why does the other party involved have their bumper?
The adjuster agreed to meet with my insured and look at the damage to his vehicle and ask that he bring the bumper. The adjuster took the bumper and paid for my customer's damages.
In the end, the police never did anything. After a month and a half, my insured called and they still did not even have the report turned over to an investigator.
It seems they only tend to care if there are substantial bodily injuries, but this one was so cut and dry it's rediculous. They could have ran the license plate they had in their hand, and went to that address that night. They may have even found that the driver had been drinking. |
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MBTexas
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | (if they can identify the vehicle) |
Sure they do if I understood it correctly both vehicles were non-drive at the scene and the at fault parties (driver and passenger) ran!
Perhaps your husband can be of some assistance, '''agency to agency'' cop to cop...I'd go right to the chief!
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Your story made me laugh MBtexas. Its good to see some dishonest people do pay. |
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fireyone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Lets say the vehicle was stolen and the vehicle's owner made the report shortly after the accident…. Fishy yes. Possible also yes.
It sounds as if 3 possible agencies arrived at the scene….but who actually conducted the investigation? You never mentioned how injured your son was, but it sounds as if it was not bad. So to be honest, these are not always on the high priority list for any police agency. Either they have too many other more important crimes to investigate or it is a smaller agency that does not have the man power to investigate. If they have no leads as to who was driving the vehicle (as they ran)… there is really not much they can do. I really don't see them going all CSI looking for DNA and prints in the car. Another possible angle for the police is that they have an ongoing investigation and do not want to release any information that may hurt their investigation. (I've had this happen on a number of fatalities) Basically they don't want you or your insurance company hounding someone that they are getting prepared to arrest.
As for no stolen vehicle report, if their story is correct and it was stolen and they called it in around the time of the accident the vehicle owner may have dropped the issue/ didn't want to waste time going to the police station to file a report when the vehicle was already recovered. You read all the time (on this forum) of people not filing police reports for various reasons ( there is really no good reason, but it happens all the time). Their carrier may have been sloppy and accepted the same vehicle accident report for your son's accident and did not require an actual stolen vehicle report and just took their insured's word.
As for Allstate's investigation… I really can't see anymore they could do. The vehicle's owner does not have any duty to cooperate with Allstate and could have just told them the vehicle was stolen period. It's not like they could use water boarding to make him give a statement.
Tcope:
Although I do agree that a good adjuster would ask the questions that you posted, but not to their own insured. In this case so far, there is no proof that the vehicle's owner was involved. Now this may come from my background in (large exposure) truck claims and less in personal auto, but you never ask a question that you don't want answered or more so you already know the answer ( unless there is no way around asking it and you need it for the record). These would however be great questions for the OP son's carrier to ask the other vehicle's owner… but I never see that statement happening. As for the police asking these questions… see above.
Does this suck… sure. And it really doesn't pass the smell test. There is small claims court or getting an attorney, but without any proof that the vehicle was not stolen it is a difficult route. Also, I did not fully understand the part about moving from one state to the next and the son's comp and coll being taken off the policy. E&O could be a route, because although your son signed the paperwork when he switched agents/states, I would think that the agent should have been questioning why he was dropping these coverages (unless I missed something). I do believe that people should be responsible for what they sign, but I've seen this fly before. |
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Dasfuk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
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It seems to me that the primary problem is the lack of performance from the investigating agency. They need to confirm who the owner of the vehicle has insurance with and add it to the report. It does not matter who was diving or if the vehicle was stolen, it still has insurance and that information needs to be recorded. It's then up to that carrier to pay or deny the hit and run claim.
An adjuster has a _duty_ to investigate the loss and determine if the claim is owed... even if it means they find out their insured is lying (or even probably lying) and they need to pay the hit and run claim. I ask questions _all the time_ knowing that it might obligate me to paying the claim. Quite frankly, I don't care. It's not my money but it is my job.
Commercial accounts are even worse! Commercial drivers tend to be less then truthful all the time. They don't want their employer to find out about the bonehead move they made as they may get fired. What do they care if they lie to the insurance company... it's not their policy.
Work a few weeks with non-standard policy holders and you will see that they would lie just as soon as breath. Not to get off topic but I once had an insured report her car stolen. She told me she had "heard around the neighborhood" who had stolen it but only knew his nick name. I sent SIU out to investigate. One of the people who was in the house with the insured told us that the insured was inside smoking crack and her boyfriend asked to use the car. The insured said no... until the boyfriend told her he'd buy some more crack and bring it back. So she let her boyfriend take the car and he never came back. She confessed later to the police once they presented this information that SIU found out.
This is referring the the "stolen" vehicle owner's insurance carrier.
I also disagree and think the police dropped the ball. It does not matter how busy they are... they still have a duty and responsiblity to investigate crimes. THAT is their job after all... and they are paid by the tax payers to do their job. They also have to answer to those people when they can't do their jobs. As far as not being able to do anything... sure they can! They simply need to assign the felony hit and run to a detective who will ask the owner of the vehicle to come in for questioning. The detective knows how to conduct an interview and see if the owners story of the stolen vehicle does not add up. This might not lead anywhere but it still needs to be done. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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I agree both agencys have blown it here...It's really not that hard to find out (for the cops) if that vehicle was insured...If the owner reported it to their carrier as stolen, thus a comp loss you can bet your bootie that their carrier will require a stolen vehicle report before a hit and run claim....hmmmmmmmm, but on the other hand if junior took the car out and caused this damage, mom and dad are somehow reluctant to report it stolen if there is any chance jr. is gonna get caught...so maybe it was reported to their carrier as a single vehicle accident...and if so...bingo bango the OP has them!
I cannot count the times over the years I have gotten a stolen vehicle report, when I knew without question that jr, or some other permissive driver had the vehicle....some times can get the owner to fess up, some times not.
I personally cannot believe that allstate simply jumped on this UM claim without more proof that the vehicle was stolen....and maybe they did have more proof, like a denial from the owners carrier saying it was stolen...and the OP just doesn't know that...i've never had a boss that would've let that fly....
I personally think both the carrier and certainly the police dept need answer for their lack of service to this insured/citizen...I don't care how many 'big' crimes there are going on in the city this young man lives in....if you have a car 'thief' running around stealing vehicles, slamming into an innocent at 75 mph, you'd think they should atleast look into it for pete's sake...as to an on going investigation that they don't want to tip off the offender, i don't buy it...they could simply tell these people they are investigating it..and they (from what I understand) are not....
I still say climb the cop ladder...
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Lori
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