So your saying that the body shop created the DV claim?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 12:28 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Some people have come to the conclusion that they need an advocate that has the experience and knowledge to assist them in obtaining proper and complete repairs, because they have knowledge of others that have not benefited by trusting their insurer to select a shop for them perhaps because they percieve there is a financial motive for the insurer to pay for the least expensive repair. As their advocate, it is my job to inform them of my ability to complete repairs to their damaged vehicles based on the funds that the insurer has estimated that the repairs could be performed for. It is my duty as an advocate for them to inform them that there may be additional damages and losses for which they may be owed that the insurer refuses to pay for. I give them the names of attorneys that they can speak with for legal consultations if it becomes necessary.
Quote:
People are looking for honesty and frank answers; they don't always seem to be getting it from the people that owe them money for their losses
Oh my gosh I can't stop laughing! What do you charge them for this 'service' Mike....just to talk to you about it? Oh here it is fifty bucks! (on one site others don't tell all until you 'sign' up Rolling Eyes )
Quote:
For a consultation fee of just $50.00 we will listen to your situation and concerns, answer your questions and provide sound advice and direction. Our auto damage claim experts have over 2 decades of insurance industry experience and can help you through the frustration and confusion often found in the claims process.
Now that doesn't include the 199 for a diminished value report.....(again just one site, some have higher and lower 'fees')



On 'one' of the sites (so far I've only found I think four that you 'work' for) you do these reports it even says the damage must be over 2500.00
Quote:
Amout of Repair Estimate (Minimum $2,500.00)
_ I already listed the additional critera of the other site (however they seem to be 'affiliated'' with each other Rolling Eyes ) of course this claim from the OP doesn't qualify for it either...so if all of these qaulifications aren't met are we to assume you experts don't believe diminished value has occured?





I think it's pretty clear where the motivation for this statement of yours comes from
Quote:
I encourage all vehicle owners which are my customers that are third party claimants to collect the diminishment of value
What is that statement you are always making about not trusting someone that owes you money? Seriously how can you trust someone that will profit not only by repairing your vehicle, but by insisting it now has suffered a diminishment of value after that person repaired it? Course it's gonna' cost you a couple of hundred, for me to type up a report that says so... Rolling Eyes And by the way for a nominal fee I will also hold your hand thru the process. (they call this ''property damage claim and repair audit and consultation" on one site)..Simply collision consultation on another...most shops I know will offer their help for free....man, this 'picture' just gets clearer and clearer...(is that word?)...


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Lori
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 3:12 pm   Post subject: You are funny Lori, and not funny Ha Ha!  

Keep on harping there is no DV and I'll keep playing my violin to your tune. I do enjoy reading your fiction.



However on further contemplation, I think my work is accomplished here. I think I have planted enough fruitful seeds and if someone searches DV on the forum they may find some truthful facts they can use when contemplating seeking their loss in value that are not insurer twisted and spun.



Most people with an IQ sufficient to obtain a GED understand diminished value. It must just be insurance employee endoctrination that keeps you and T from comprehending. I don't want to be responsible for you flying off the deep end on this subject, afterall your shops need your oversight to know how to run their businesses and I am taking that precious time away from you.



If they don't find the answers they need here, all they have to do is a little googling and they may find someone who gets it to help them.



As you were, keep up the good work. You guys do offer some good advice and help occassionally. And as long as people still seek my help I am willing to help them even if it isn't profit driven but out of sincere desire to help people who are run rough shodden over by coporate greed.



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:01 pm   Post subject:   

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Keep on harping there is no DV and I'll keep playing my violin to your tune. I do enjoy reading your fiction.
I don't know that _anyone_ has stated that DV does not exist. Just that it does not apply. I think two things are being spoken of:



1) DV is a _perception_. Everyone, including yourself, agrees to that. That is, it's not a _real_, physical depreciation of value in the item.



2) Since it's _perceived_ it _only_ exists when it's acknowledged. Here is the kicker... if it's not acknowledged, it does not exit, so no one is harmed/suffers the loss. Read that again. It's important.



So why should an insurance company acknowledge that it applies? It serves no purpose but to cost _every_ more money. I can see only one reason why anyone would want it to apply. So they can make money off charging people for 20 page reports.



Now I'm not questioning your right to make a buck. More power to you. But you seem to be of the opinion that the insurance companies are trying to rip everyone off. As mentioned above, this could actually be seen as the insurance companies simply trying to make it so no one loses money when they sell a vehicle, resulting in a win/win situation where no one loses. Also in this scenario there is really only one type of person who makes money when DV is applied. Want to guess who that is?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:18 pm   Post subject: I am sorry I disagree  

Quote:
1) DV is a _perception_. Everyone, including yourself, agrees to that. That is, it's not a _real_, physical depreciation of value in the item.



2) Since it's _perceived_ it _only_ exists when it's acknowledged. Here is the kicker... if it's not acknowledged, it does not exit, so no one is harmed/suffers the loss. Read that again. It's important.




Insurers don't pay for losses based on perceptions, they pay based on proven damages, so why would you ever pay for the loss. The courts have detemined it is real and not perceived. The public perceives based on market indicators that their property is no longer worth the pre accident value. I have had customers take their cars in for trade the same day they picked them up in an attempt to establish their loss in value. Some actually sold their cars for a loss with documentation and the insurer still claim it was invalid, because they will claim that the customer did not negotiate adequately.



Most people grasp the concept that a damaged object is not the same value as one that has never been damaged or repaired. Why do three states recognize that is not a perception on first party losses?



You just can't seem to get past the legal definition of DV that I have already posted and that the courts recognize. You actually believe there are people with the skill to repair to this imaginary pre-loss condition and I won't be able to convince you otherwise so I am no longer going to try. Consumers and owners of vehicles do get it. It is obvious insurance employees are never going to make a statement that DV exists where their acknowledgement may come back to bite them by their management and be used against them at some point. I get it!



T, thanks for at least being civil in your discussion.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:02 pm   Post subject: DV  

DV is a "perception" Oh I can't stop laughing it is very real, I know you know. Get real, what insurance company do you work for? Plain and simple it is not difficult, you can try to disquise it anyway you want, but lets see here I want to buy a used car 1 year old cost 20,000 do I pick the one with no prior damage or the one with 10,000 in body work hmm. no brainer and try to trade it in, it will be worth 5,000 less I know I've been there. Get real or get educated. Brad


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:29 pm   Post subject:   

I don't think you understand. I'll explain it like this... physically, what is the difference between the two vehicles? There is none. The damage fender or whatever it was, was replaced with the exact same OEM part. If anything, the repaired vehicle has newer parts on it.



So why do people think the damaged and repaired vehicle is worth less?



The vehicle is not worth less because of any _real_ difference. People just _percieve_ that it should be worth less. Truth is, there is no physical difference.



Now you might understand.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:13 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Now you might understand.
Doubtful...how is it this same argument doesn't hold water Brad, when a vehicle that will total is being valued and UNREPAIRED pre-existing damage is deducted from the value? hmmmmmm? THAT my friend IS diminished value...but some how there's always an argument about it...



IMO there 'may' be times when there is true dv...ie bad repair etc...however how do you measure that? you CAN'T until the vehicle is traded or sold...if I were the boss of the world dv would be considered when the vehicle is sold or traded, and not before...look at it like this...someone talks some carrier into paying 5k dv...owner holds on to the car another 5 years THEN sells or trades it...are you honestly going to tell me that five years later there is a TRUE dv of 5k? nope there is not...if there is any it's gonna' be down to 1k or less by now...so what's the answer? I don't know...but the current system is not working..and people are ripped off on both sides of this, if it's paid, and if it's not...(thanks carfax) and again I agree with Tcope it is ONLY a perception... 'if' and 'until' it becomes a reality.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:58 pm   Post subject:   

Ok I can see you are a bunch of old timers either unwilling or unable to see the light or perhaps can't figure out the difference between the two, now pay particular attention the "universally acknowledged part" but here goes...What Really is Diminished Value?

You've been in an auto accident - You now have a claim for collision damage - You may also have a claim for Diminished Value -









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PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:14 pm   Post subject:   

Thanks for the copy of paste of what _DV is_. Now one is disputing _what_ it is. What your failing to do is to read posts being made. If you had read them, you would have understood that the definition of what DV is was not being mentioned at all (so your post is pointless). What _IS_ being mentioned is that DV is a perceived loss, not a physical one. That is narrowed down to 9 words. Read them, think about it.



I'll try to give you another watered down example. I take the OEM fender off your vehicle and put it next to another brand new OEM fender from the parts department at your local dealership. What is the difference? At most, your fender might not be in as good of condition. But let's just say your's is perfect so there is no difference. I install that brand new OEM fender on your vehicle instead of the old one that was taken off. What is different about the vehicle now? When you answer that correctly, you will see that DV is _ perceved _ and does not involve a physical loss to the vehicle.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:50 am   Post subject:   

Ok, first no one ever said that that they did not understand what dv is or lacked the knowledge or intelligence of a 10 year old to understand the 'concept' of dv...what we have said is until that vehicle is traded or sold it is a perception of a loss that has not occured nor maybe NEVER occur...can't you (even) understand that? until the diminishment occurs (again 'if' it ever does) how can you or anyone possibly put a dollar figure on it? you can't because you have a perception of a loss..NOT an ACTUAL loss...why is that so hard to understand...Then one has to ask 'what influences your perception or mine?'' if you too are an 'expert' in the dv field (see my rant below) then of course your perception is influenced by putting more money in your own pocket...if truly you are out to benefit the poor consumer...DO IT FOR FREE! Just like 'my' perception of dv is that it is a perceived loss not an actual one, and my further perception is the ones screaming the loudest are the ones being paid to type it up...



Again, I personally have on problem with dv, once the loss occurs, paid it then...when that car is sold or traded, keep the claim in hard form for 3-5 years whatever, then pay it just like we pay all other claims once the loss occurs...not before or because we preceive, think, wish, hope, wonder, conjure, or dread that one will occur (some day)...





oh geeze he pulled it from ''ican'' http://www.ican2000.com/dvfaqs.html



Ya' know it's pretty tacky to try and pull something off as your own...you could've easily sourced it (i did) or gave poor ole' J.D. credit Rolling Eyes really pretty slimmy brad.



It's either our buddy Mike trying to pull one over, (however i must admit that isn't his style, but people change)..or another ''expert'' who gets paid to type of these reports of dv...if I was getting paid for this, I'd think that EVERY car had dv too... Rolling Eyes geeze not a tough one to figure out, even for an 'old timer'...if i get paid to say so, i'm gonna say so! duh... Rolling Eyes



oh get this we got us a new term....''Property Damage ParaLegals" Laughing I don't remember seeing that degree program anywhere, (when I WAS in a paralegal degree program). Might want to let your buddy J.D. know he might want to check using that term without the appropriate degree, minimally it is dishonest, and implies. And since paralegals MUST be under the direct supervision of an attorney and further cannot offer or give legal advise, could be even more trouble not to mention that many states require certification...ok, i'll stop on that tan-gent...(it's that 'old-timers' acting up again i'm sure)..



Oh by the way junior, you might want to think about listening yourself once in a while if you had you'd have realized we KNOW the definition... Rolling Eyes



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Last edited by Lori on Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:16 am
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:53 am   Post subject:   

Don't know why I am wasting my time, as your mind is unable to perceive this concept, that this is not Santa clause or the tooth fairy, not some unimaginable fictious perceived notion. It must be assumed that you work for an insurance company and cannot or will not comprehend what is reality. I guess the courts are handing out judgments based nothing, and the insurance companies are paying out of their good hearts. (Cough and throw up) that these owners deserve 0, because as you put it your fender is as good as my fender or wait I mean better than my fender because yours is newer, right? Sorry my fine short-sided one, back to school for you, wake up and smell the anything and get a grip on what really happens. It is really very simple do you want a car that has enough damage to have a salvation title and fixed with your betterment parts or one that is in pristine condition or (from your twisted point of view my crappy old parts) that the factory applied under strict guidelines, supervision, QA standards, torque specifications, on and on. See all your new parts don't look so good now do they, no. If you are lucky enough to get a body shop to do most of your work correctly then maybe you have a smaller DV. But it is impossible for every ma and pa shop to duplicate the rigid standards that are set forth and applied at the factory. It is fact that over 50 percent of the repairs are done incorrectly by nature of; it is inconceivable to expect ma and pa to replicate what? How many factories techniques, how any machines, how many applications, processes, knowledge bases, know-how, expertise, checks and balances, QA, inspection, replication for every single make of car, truck, SUV, or van and over how many years of vehicles. It would be simply not be possible to have all of the advantages as the original factories. Nothing will restore my vehicle to its pre-loss condition. It is well known the duplication of factory finish is impossible in the repair industry, I am not saying they can't blend and refinish, just that it is impossible to duplicate the factory finish. Now that we have established the inferior ness of how they rebuild your vehicle even with the exact same part. Your car will not be the same; it will not be better with your new part. It will be worse, your simple fender example although naive will require possible 3 body panels to be removed or at least loosened, splash screens and other components will have to be destructed in order to be reconstructed and I am sorry my friend but when you actually get into a real collision where they are trying to straighten the frame rails, impact beams, harnesses, fasteners, welding, rolling, chopping, drilling, grinding, sanding, you will never replace it as good as it was at the factory so I got new parts and a 50 percent chance something was left out, shortcuts were applied, not done correctly, either intentionally or unintentially it doesn't matter it happens. So you see in your mind you can talk about your favorite word of perception all day long as that is your perception but I am sorry again it is not real world. I hope I have watered this down enough for you to understand reality. I mean you can water your plants however you see fit but I really think you cannot see the forest because of the trees.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 1:57 am   Post subject:   

what we have said, get that mouse out of your pocket and have gull to speak for yourself, nevermind you can have your crutch back.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:47 am   Post subject:   

Not being paid but your propaganda is thicker than china it makes me ill for your spreading misinformation. How do you know I am not JD. What insurance company do you work for and why don't you give them credit, kinda slimmey LORI my dear pathetic The holidays are sad because you are a joke and disgrace. Would someone please call LORI a Whaaaambulance. No wonder you have no friends. Happy holidays the best time of thr year where everyone is happy and cheerfull, pass it on

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:55 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
It is really very simple do you want a car that has enough damage to have a salvation title...
Well at least the post was not a total waste.
Quote:
If you are lucky enough to get a body shop to do most of your work correctly then maybe you have a smaller DV.
So your saying that the body shop created the DV claim? Okay.
Quote:
But it is impossible for every ma and pa shop to duplicate the rigid standards that are set forth and applied at the factory.
So your saying that the body shop cannot put the fender on like the robot can at the factory? Okay.[/quote]It is fact that over 50 percent of the repairs are done incorrectly by nature of; it is inconceivable to expect ma and pa to replicate what?[/quote]Since its a fact, you can provide documentation/cites? Again, so your saying that the shop cannot put OEM parts on like the person at the factory? Okay.
Quote:
It is well known the duplication of factory finish is impossible in the repair industry, I am not saying they can't blend and refinish, just that it is impossible to duplicate the factory finish.
If its so "well known", you can provide documentation/cites, correct?
Quote:
so I got new parts and a 50 percent chance something was left out, shortcuts were applied, not done correctly, either intentionally or unintentionally it doesn't matter it happens.
So, your saying that the body shop did not make the repairs correctly? Okay.



So, according to your post, I think I understand... your saying that no body shop can do quality work on a vehicle. Does this include you as well? I'd love to see you walk into a shop and tell the body shop personnel that they can't put a bumper on the same way they can at the factory.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:57 am   Post subject:   

Wow get real... your so sure of yourself that you need to resort to personal attacks. This really shows your intelligence level.

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