how to figure settlement with previous salvage title

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:43 pm   Post subject: how to figure settlement with previous salvage title  

I have friend who bought car with salvage title, not knowing much about that type of thing, other than thinking they got a great deal on the buy. She was in a small accident recently and it might turn out to be a total loss (at least one air bag blew, plus dented fender, etc.)



How will having a previous salvage title impact the settlement (and they think they want to keep the car) ? What should they be asking the insurance company ?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:07 am   Post subject:   

Thats a new one I haven't seen asked here so I joined. Someone should answer you pretty shortly so keep checking...good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 10:30 am   Post subject:   

Well I'm sure she did get a good deal....typcially 'salvage or prior salvage' titled vehicles are worth anywhere from 25-50% less, (than retail) older vehicles aren't hit quite as badly as newer ones......assuming the insurance carrier will run a title search they will surely find this out (probably already have)....she can still keep the vehicle, may have a hoop or two to jump thru to return it to 'prior' salvage.. If your friend wants to double check on the value, and what a salvaged title can do have her call a couple of good used lots tell them what she has ask ''what would you sell this vehicle for without and 'with' a salvaged titled.. unfortunately she may be shocked...if you'd like provide all the vehicle information (make, model, year, mileage and all options) I'd be happy to run a value, and tell you what we think (percent wise)...re: the branded title....



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:52 pm   Post subject:   

.

.

... Blackbelt4



You might also want to contact your Agent and inquire about the Lower cost of insurance for this auto do to it having a Salvage Title. Compared to this same auto if it had a Clear Title. I've never heard of a "Salvage Title Discount."



My thinking is... if your paying the same either way, then you've been paying based on a clear Titled auto. In which case one should think your settlement would be based on the value of a Clear Titled Auto.



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:50 pm   Post subject:   

Do they even give discounts on insurance for salvage vechicles? I have never had a salvage vehicle but one never knows when this will apply later in life and the info could come in handy. Lori, it does sound right about a salvage vehicles value being less. I mean I wouldn't buy a vehicle off a lot for full value had I been aware it was salvaged. Now I'm not saying I wouldn't buy one. I'm just saying I wouldn't pay full price being that it was salvaged.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:56 pm   Post subject: Wait a minute!  

Quote:
Well I'm sure she did get a good deal....typcially 'salvage or prior salvage' titled vehicles are worth anywhere from 25-50% less, (than retail) older vehicles aren't hit quite as badly as newer ones......




You mean even if these cars were fixed with oem parts and restored to pre-accident condition, they would still be worth 25 to 50 percent less?



So you are saying that if a vehicle has 75 percent damage of market value; the total loss threshold of 80 percent isn't reached; it is not totaled and is restored with oem parts it suffers no loss in value?



But, If the same vehicle has 75 percent damage of market value and is totaled by the insurer because they feared hidden damage; it is later bought, rebuilt/restored with oem parts and now has a salvage title, it could be worth 50% less?



This sounds a lot like this car lost value because of the accident history. Wink


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:31 am   Post subject: Rebuilt Total  

One of the guys that I work with rebuilt a vehicle, oem parts, did a beautiful job as always. It got totaled again and his carrier told him its value was 20-25% less. His agent hooked him up with an appraiser, they invoked the appraisal clause and got him full retail.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:32 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Do they even give discounts on insurance for salvage vechicles?
I've never heard of it either and doubt it's exsistance, in fact many carriers will not write collision/comprehensive coverage on a vehicle with a salvaged title...



Quote:
You mean even if these cars were fixed with oem parts and restored to pre-accident condition, they would still be worth 25 to 50 percent less
Mike you're so funny...yep even if....because that vehicle was (according to state guidelines) damaged beyond repair....

Quote:
So you are saying that if a vehicle has 75 percent damage of market value; the total loss threshold of 80 percent isn't reached; it is not totaled and is restored with oem parts it suffers no loss in value?



But, If the same vehicle has 75 percent damage of market value and is totaled by the insurer because they feared hidden damage; it is later bought, rebuilt/restored with oem parts and now has a salvage title, it could be worth 50% less?
Yes, except, number one I'm not saying it, and number two I said between 25-50%...
Quote:
This sounds a lot like this car lost value because of the accident history.
You are just so darn cute! Wink Our state is the one that says these vehicles will total at a certain percentage, and will maintain a salvaged title mike..however they can be changed to ''prior''...didn't say I agreed with it...just that's the way it is.... Rolling Eyes Why did the OP get such a good deal? Cause it was a salvage title! Therefore when it totals and the deduction for a salvaged title is taken then they are still getting what they lost....the ACV of a salvaged vehicle....
Quote:
His agent hooked him up with an appraiser, they invoked the appraisal clause and got him full retail.

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See there always have that clause to fall back on, however I'd have loved to seen that data...I agree all salvaged vehicles that have been repaire should have a way of cleaning the title up (returning it to a clean title) but this would require such in depth inspections and clearly must be a case by case situation that it will never happen...I've looked at repaired salvage vehicles that have the air bags duct taped shut for pete's sake!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:46 am   Post subject:   

.

.

... Lori,



Part of your response:



Quote:
Why did the OP get such a good deal? Cause it was a salvage title! Therefore when it totals and the deduction for a salvaged title is taken then they are still getting what they lost....the ACV of a salvaged vehicle....




Hmmmmmm



So, if fireyone had two identical cars (year, make, model, color, all options, and mileage, etc.) and even though one has a Salvage Title, one would be hard-pressed to tell them apart. The Clear title one Book's for $20,000.oo



She has full coverage on both ( liability, coll. comp. etc.) And since insurer's don't offer a "Salvage" discount, she is also paying identical premiums of $1,000.oo each.



For the *Same* premium dollars... if she totals one she is paid $20,000.oo. And if she totals the other she is paid between $10,000.oo and $15,000.oo.



Even though as you say "the deduction for a salvaged title is taken then they are still getting what they lost...."



But is she getting what she *PAID* for??



That's a little like Paying a full service Gas station attendant for "Premium Fuel" and he/she fills your tank with "economy" grade fuel.



To me that does not sound reasonable..!





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:08 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
For the *Same* premium dollars... if she totals one she is paid $20,000.oo. And if she totals the other she is paid between $10,000.oo and $15,000.oo.
yep, pretty much....

Quote:
Even though as you say "the deduction for a salvaged title is taken then they are still getting what they lost...."
These are two different topics, one is that she is getting the ACV for the salvaged vehicle, (assuming it totaled AGAIN), and when it is settled getting what her loss was (the value of a salvage titled vehicle which is what she paid for as well...remember she got 'a great deal on the buy')...



Quote:
But is she getting what she *PAID* for??


Maybe not in terms of premium payment (which is the second/different topic)....she is paying to insure the vehicle for it's ACV, (which in this case is less than her other car) most (if not all) agents don't ask does that car have a salvaged title? They should because most/many carriers will not (as I mentioned) KNOWINLY write collision/comp...I see your point and agree.....I'm not certain exactly how much of the premium is based on the vehicle.. I know alot of it is based on the driver, (age, sex, marital status, location, driving record etc)...There is no question the vehicle comes into play an 88 nissian premium will be substantially less than an 08 nissian for sure! I'd have to agree with you theory....But the fact is a prior salvaged car is worth less than a clean titled car...As far as the claims settlement I see no problem...however (again) I agree with you re: the premium difference...

Quote:
To me that does not sound reasonable..!
yep, doesn't to me either.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:50 pm   Post subject:   

Wow whenit comes to the insurance premiums that doesn't sound fair. I do get it about the salvage title vs clean title issue. The insurance world sure is a confusing place.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:28 pm   Post subject:   

.

.

... Lori,



Why would the Agent or the Insurer need to ask a consumer anything about the Title??



In all my years I've never purchased insurance coverage without submitting the V.I.N's for my automobiles.



With today's automated computerized world and the high speed search engines... I would guess that with my SSI number and the VIN they can amass all the info they need to instantly calculate my premiums. Including if any of my autos have been previously totaled.



With that said... in my opinion... the total loss value of her auto and the premiums fireyone would pay are tied together, and should be used to set her premiums.



Otherwise she would be paying premiums based on the insurer potentially paying $20,000,oo on a Total loss, when they can reasonably expect to only pay $10,000.oo to $15,000.oo.



So is she really getting the settlement value the *Insurer charged her for??*



Or is this being treated like a consumer Paying that full service Gas station attendant the price of "Premium Fuel" and the attendant filling her tank with economy (cheaper) grade fuel and pocketing the over-pay??



Do you have any way of finding someone that *Knows* how your company handles Branded Titles when calculating premiums?



[I wonder if the NCOIL or the DOI's have ever thought of this little Snafu]



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:25 pm   Post subject:   

I don't think the persons getting the insurance she is paying for in this type of situation. It seems more fair to pay premiums on what the car is actually worth if totaled.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:43 am   Post subject:   

I agree with you both in this situation it doesn't seem fair to me either....Fred, I don't know of any company that runs a VIN until their is an accident...when they write a new person they run their drivers license checking for accidents/tickets etc....but I've never heard of a VIN ran at time of inception...



Again, and another good point, I know I have handled many second time totals...but honestly do not think any insurer ''knowingly'' insures a branded title (first party)...So could very well be moot, if the insurer were told it is branded they wouldn't accept it thus no payment (under coll/comp) made, however if it 'slid' through and coverage afforded, then (if this is the case) any payment would be appreciated I'm sure...and no it wouldn't be material mis-rep unless that specific question were on the application, which explains to me why they don't refund coll/comp premiums and deny the claims...hopefully some agents will drop in on this thread and let us know ....Hey agents! IF an insured comes to you to write a policy and from the get go says, ' hey this thing has a prior/salvaged title' will you be able to get it past underwriting for collision and comp?



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:22 pm   Post subject:   

.

.

... Lori,



I live in a small community out here in the "Pa.Wilds". (nearest town, Pop. under 1000 (but we do have "a" as in "1" traffic light whoo-hoo)) Everyone pretty much knows what everyone else is doing.



With my being in the Auto body repair business for well over 40 years,(second generation shop-owner) I've repaired a lot of Totaled vehicles for my personal use throughout those years. I've bought two Brand new autos, one in `69 and another in `82. The rest have been Rebuilt totals with "R" Title's.



I've also been with the same Agent/Broker for that same period of time. And repaired many of his and his families automobiles. My Agent knows my "R" title history and has never hesitated to write coverage for Collision & Comp.. Many years ago I ask the question about how a claim would be paid if one of my "R" cars was totaled. His response was that it would be treated as though it had a Clear Title, and be Valued accordingly, since the premiums were based on a Clear Title automobile.



I never had the opportunity [ opportunity?? Smile ]to test his statement [by totaling a car], but also never had reason to doubt his word.



The above is why I *jumped* on this Thread so hard, when you as an Adjuster stated the opposite.



My mind instantly filled with questions.



Was he wrong??



Has claims handling changed that much in the past 15-20 years??



Should I be concerned??



Should I ask the question of the Pa. DOI (and cc our Attorney General's Office and district Legislator (who was Born, Raised, and lives in this community) ??



Should I just forget about it??



Or...???!!!

============================

============================



About running the VIN at application time.



I don't *know* what the boys at the top instruct their employee's to do, but in this information age (to me) it would seem foolish not to *mine* All of the Joint Insurer Data-bases before accepting an Application for coverage. For many reasons, one of which would be to keep someone that belongs in the Risk-Pool from slipping under the radar and getting insurance coverage at the Normal rate. Another... simple common sense. The imagination is the only limit on what can be done with the Trillions of bits of Info out there in Cyber-Space.





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