by Sabrina » Sat Mar 08, 2008 09:37 am
Hello, I'm Ark and new to the message board and have a question that maybe someone may be able to answer for me please.
I have a 1994 Ford Van in good condition that we use for everyday use to and from work, grocery shopping, heck it's our only vehicle, so it's used for everything we do.
I went get gas for my van and parked it at the gas pumps. I went into the store to pay and a car backed into my van. She had insurance and we filed the claim on the damage with her insurance company the following day and an insurance adjuster come out to our house to make an estimate on the damage.
The adjuster left and told us she would call us on the next day to give us what they estimated the damage to be.
The estimated the damage to be 1500.00 but would only pay 700.00 because of the age of the van and this insurance company says that the van is considered a total lost. Anyway, we disagree with their opinion and told the insurance company we wanted full payment for the damage so we could fix our vehicle...insurance company refuses and sent us this letter along with a check for 700.00.
Dear Mr. John Doe,
Enclosed please find a draft in the amount of $700.00, which represents the actual cash value of your vehicle, less the salvage value of $401.19.
Since you have chosen to retain salvage to your vehicle, per House Bills 2151 and 2599, Progressive Insurance Company must notify the State of Texas that you have done so.
The State of Texas will not allow transfer of title to your vehicle until a (specify either: Salvage Certificate of Title or Non repairable Certificate of Title) is issued.
If you choose to repair the vehicle and apply for a new title, you must have the vehicle inspected at the DPS inspection station and pay a $120.00 inspection fee. Once you have the document, you will be allowed to obtain a new title which will state the vehicle was previously in salvaged condition.
If you have any questions, please call me or call the Department of Transportation.
Sincerely,
XXXX XXXXXX
Claims Representative
XXXX XXXXX Insurance
My questions is:
This Insurance company can't do this can they? We have not signed any papers or the check. This is not their vehicle, nor do they own it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Ark
I have a 1994 Ford Van in good condition that we use for everyday use to and from work, grocery shopping, heck it's our only vehicle, so it's used for everything we do.
I went get gas for my van and parked it at the gas pumps. I went into the store to pay and a car backed into my van. She had insurance and we filed the claim on the damage with her insurance company the following day and an insurance adjuster come out to our house to make an estimate on the damage.
The adjuster left and told us she would call us on the next day to give us what they estimated the damage to be.
The estimated the damage to be 1500.00 but would only pay 700.00 because of the age of the van and this insurance company says that the van is considered a total lost. Anyway, we disagree with their opinion and told the insurance company we wanted full payment for the damage so we could fix our vehicle...insurance company refuses and sent us this letter along with a check for 700.00.
Dear Mr. John Doe,
Enclosed please find a draft in the amount of $700.00, which represents the actual cash value of your vehicle, less the salvage value of $401.19.
Since you have chosen to retain salvage to your vehicle, per House Bills 2151 and 2599, Progressive Insurance Company must notify the State of Texas that you have done so.
The State of Texas will not allow transfer of title to your vehicle until a (specify either: Salvage Certificate of Title or Non repairable Certificate of Title) is issued.
If you choose to repair the vehicle and apply for a new title, you must have the vehicle inspected at the DPS inspection station and pay a $120.00 inspection fee. Once you have the document, you will be allowed to obtain a new title which will state the vehicle was previously in salvaged condition.
If you have any questions, please call me or call the Department of Transportation.
Sincerely,
XXXX XXXXXX
Claims Representative
XXXX XXXXX Insurance
My questions is:
This Insurance company can't do this can they? We have not signed any papers or the check. This is not their vehicle, nor do they own it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You,
Ark
Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 09:40 pm Post Subject:
First: Since it wasn't Progressive that struck the subject vehicle, Progressive doesn't owe Sabrina for her damages, they owe to protect their insured under the terms of their policy contract with them…not the victim of their insured's negligence.
The 1st part is backed up with the Fiduciary responsiblity to Sabrina and abiding by state claims practice laws. So the distinction between the two is almost nill.Secondly: What the insurer does owe their insured (policy holder) is to properly indemnify Sabrina (the victim) as to protect their insured (policy holder who caused the damages) from having to pay Sabrina her damages themselves (out of pocket), up to the limits of coverage's as outlined in their policy.
In the end, perhaps it will be in the best interest for all for Progressive to fairly and properly indemnify Sabrina and her family and get the matter behind everyone. After all, this is the very reason insurance exists!
Or perhaps this has already been done...Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:59 am Post Subject: Making Perfect Cent$ for Sabrina Cont.
The 1st part is backed up with the Fiduciary responsibility to Sabrina and abiding by state claims practice laws. So the distinction between the two is almost nill
Because Sabrina has no contract with Progressive there is no "fiduciary responsibility" between either party. The obligation is between Progressive and the at-fault party who caused Sabrina's damages.
There has not been a resolution simply because while the insurer has totaled Sabrina's vehicle, they have not taken salvage nor tendered sufficient funds to indemnify Sabrina, including, but not limited to full pre-loss ACV (replacement cost) and tax, title transfer and all other related entitlements.
Otto
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 01:17 pm Post Subject:
I think I said this ....
Should the carrier fail to resolve the issue with Sabrina in a fair, reasonable and timely manner, then if it were I, I would discontinue efforts with the insurer and turn my attention directly to the party that caused my damages and who truly owes for my damages through small claims if need be.
BEFORE Roger accused us of
will ony tell you stories that benifit the insurance industry.
Sure enough
Your only recourse is if you think they are being unfair in their assessment of your vehicles value (ACV)...if so and you can prove it...then you could take the owner of the vehicle that hit you to small claims court and attempt to get this ACV higher
Otto, Never have I seen this paid on a property damage claim
loss of wages
Not saying it's never happened, just never seen it in my state.They (the at-fault party) can then go against Progressive and find out why Progressive, their own insurer, didn't uphold their part of the policy contract they entered into.
Acutally progressive would be bound to pay or appeal the judgement, however their insured in contractually bound to get those suit papers to progressive, who would then decide to either pay it or defend it....This sure has turned into a lot of duplicate and maybe even more information than you requested hasn't it Sabrina? Sorry, the fact is that yes, they can deem the vehicle a total loss, yes, they have zero choice in the matter re: informing the state that your vehicle is now deemed a total...The only real bone of contention is that you need to make sure of the value, (remembering that any prior unrepaired damage will also come into play re: that value-i insert this because folks tend to forget this part)..
And that you get all your state requires you get...remember as I said before all states do not pay our sales tax (cash) some (mine) pay with an a sales tax affidavit...you can contact your states Dept of Ins. they have a web site, and consumer numbers....All states are not required to pay third party rental, or loss of use, again this is something to check with your states DOI about...(however I don't see that you have mentioned any loss of use at all up to this point)...also since your vehicle is totaled diminished value would not apply...
Sabrina, I don't think many of us hide the fact that we work for insurance companies. I also think, if you look, that we also tell people when they are getting screwed by a carrier and how to get the maximum payment possible from carriers. In the case of this post, Lori and others, gave information and explained_why_ it is that way. You will notice that Roger Walling did nothing like that... he just posted some pointless information that did not address your question. I'm betting you won't see a follow up post from him as it's fairly obvious he's just trolling.
Thank you and amen brother !!!Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 07:23 pm Post Subject:
So from what I understand, is, we can not sell this vehicle with a SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE?
Thanks,
Sabrina
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 08:20 pm Post Subject:
So from what I understand, is, we can not sell this vehicle with a SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE
Well SAbrina from what the adjuster had in the letter it sounds to me like you MAY sell or transfer it after you get auntil a (specify either: Salvage Certificate of Title or Non repairable Certificate of Title) is issued.
The State of Texas will not allow transfer of title to your vehicle until a (specify either: Salvage Certificate of Title or Non repairable Certificate of Title) is issued.
If you choose to repair the vehicle and apply for a new title, you must have the vehicle inspected at the DPS inspection station and pay a $120.00 inspection fee. Once you have the document, you will be allowed to obtain a new title which will state the vehicle was previously in salvaged condition.
I don't know what a
DPS inspection station
is...(in my state the hwy patrol does the inspections) were I you I'd contact your states, DMV and find out from them exactly what this is and where...It may be (hopefully) that your vehicle would qualify for this 'non-repairable' certificate....(if that means it can be sold without repair)...I wish we all knew and understood all state laws, but we just don't, and I don't think there is a regular poster that works Texas....also could be that you could have them look at the vehicle (inspection-for free) to see if there are any repairs that MUST be made....it's certainly worth a shot...I would ask though if you do find out that you let us know the particulars so that we may help someone else in the future...if you wouldn't mind sharing...
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 08:41 pm Post Subject:
Guess I should rephrase this as to what I asked:
So from what I understand, is, we can not sell this vehicle with a SALVAGE TITLE/CERTIFICATE?
When the insurance company appraised the damage of the wreak, they also added in other minor damage that the van already had before the wreak.
Now that the van has the Salvage title, in order to sell the van exactly what do we have to do here?
1. Can the van be sold right now with this Salvage Title?
2. Do we have to fix the damage to the van that was caused by this recent wreak we just had before we can sell it.
3. or, do we have to fix everything......damage from the recent wreak and the pre-existing damage before the wreak before we can sell the van?
The van has always passed inspection. The damage from this recent wreak has caused damage to the front door & front well fender.... the van is still drivable. This damage from this recent wreak will not cause the van to not pass inspection.
Also, another problem that we have run into with iss, we have had this van up for sale for a few months now. Now thats this wreck thing has happen I guess this puts a hault on selling it?
I'm also not to certain as to what we do next now that a salvage title has been issued on our van. Guess we have to go down to the court house to get this change title? or will it come in the mail?
Please forgive me for the stupid questions but I'm clueless on this new title stuff and what we need to do now to get this Salvage Title.
Thanks,
Sabrina
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 09:26 pm Post Subject:
Because Sabrina has no contract with Progressive there is no "fiduciary responsibility" between either party. The obligation is between Progressive and the at-fault party who caused Sabrina's damages.
Fiduciary–noun 1. Law. a person to whom property or power is entrusted for the benefit of another.
More on the point of insurance, the adjuster is bound by law (Fair Claims Practice Acts) to act in the interest of the claimant. This _DOES_ out weight the responsiblity of the insured. That is, the adjuster _DOES_ have a greater obligation and responsiblity then of what you mention.
Examples: Notification that the statute of limitations is going to run. Every state I know of does not allow the insurance company to simply let this statute expire. Insurance companies typically send out certified letters to make the claimant aware of this. The state of California requires the insurance company to notify the claimant every 30 days what is still needed in order to settle the claim. I could go on and on but you could also review each state Fair Claims Practice Act for specific and more detailed information. But I think I've made my point.
If the carrier had a policy with Sabrina, the carrier would have a contractual obligation, not just a fiduciary responsiblity.
There has not been a resolution simply because while the insurer has totaled Sabrina's vehicle, they have not taken salvage nor tendered sufficient funds to indemnify Sabrina, including, but not limited to full pre-loss ACV (replacement cost) and tax, title transfer and all other related entitlements.
A carrier is under no obligation to secure the salvage. If they wanted, they could deduct a fair amount and allow Sabrina to retain it. What is the ACV if her van? If you don't know (and you don't), how do you know the offer was not fair? If the owner retains the vehicle no replacement vehicle is needed so no sale tax or other charges would be payable. Technically, those amounts are not even owed until the person can show that the vehicle was replaced (but most carriers simply choose to pay it up front).Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 09:33 pm Post Subject:
1. Can the van be sold right now with this Salvage Title?
Yes, it can be sold... but typically with a Salvage Title it's value will be about 25% less. Also, the carrier is deducting what they determiend to be it's value in it's post accident condition. So if everything is the same, you'd only be able to sell it for what the carrier deducted. This would put you right back in the same spot as if they took possesion of the salvage vehicle (but you'd also be paid taxes, registration fees, etc).Each state is different and it depends on the vehicle and those state laws as to if a vehicle with a salvage title can be registered for use on the road. You best bet is to call your local DMV and ask. I've always had good luck with them on the phone.
Having an older vehicle totaled in an accident if never a good situation to be in. The value of the vehicle is not in the monitary value, rather they it was good transportation. When you place a dollar amount on these types of vehicles, you never going to get what the vehicle was "worth to you".
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 09:35 pm Post Subject:
sorry I misunderstood, this is some information I found...were I you, rather than read the 171 pages I'd call the number I've highlighted...
How to Get a Salvage or Rebuilt Salvage Title
Texas has strict guidelines about what constitutes a salvage vehicle, how to go about getting a salvage title issued, who may buy or sell a salvage vehicle, and how to bring a vehicle out of salvage status. Before attempting to either get a salvage title or to repair a salvage vehicle and return it to the road, we recommend that you read the very comprehensive (at 171 pages) Salvage Dealer and Motor Vehicle Information publication issued by the Texas Department of Transportation.
It's all a bit confusing, so if you're still not clear about how to title and register a salvage or a rebuilt salvage car, feel free to contact a regional Vehicle Titles and Registration Division office or call the VTR help desk at (512) 465-7611.
If you are reclaiming vehicles that are damaged or have been previously declared totaled, there are many Texas salvage vehicle forms for this purpose. Dealers and agents might also be interested to read the state's salvage vehicle dealer and agent FAQs.
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:30 pm Post Subject:
I've contacted my lawyer on this matter but he is out til Thursday. So once I get a chance to talk this over with him I will let ya'll know what has come of it all.
Thank so much for all the help, greatly appreciate it very much.
Sabrina
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