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 Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:51 pm Post subject: warning to those who use erie insurance |
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my story is i was involved in an auto accident which really wasnt my fault but both insurances decided both parties were at fault that each person's company pay for their own damages. so i get my repair estimate and check. i review the estimate, and i see that they paid me for RECYCLED parts! the worse part is they gave me a different place for every major part all at least 1½ hour drive from my home. so they expect me to either drive out to get all of these parts or pay shipping for the not so small parts like bumper, fender, ect. its ridiculous i cant just go to a local dealership to buy the parts with the money they've given me which is less than half of the msrp
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SuperXero
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Hold on guys...this is typical and the way nearly all repairs are made...what they expect is that you will give the estimate to the repair shop of your choice, they will repair the vehicle per the estimate...there is no shipping costs to most shops on most parts....if there is additional damage or cost the shop knows to contact the adjuster and the adjuster and the shop will work out any differences...
Super, what is the year/make/model of your vehicle? Are YOU planning to complete all the repairs yourself? Clearly if you were a body repair tech you would know all of this, so I can't imagine that was your plan...so what is your plan of repair? or do you not plan to repair the vehicle.... I honestly don't see the problem..
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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Recycled parts are used OEM parts. What was on the vehicle? Answer... used OEM.
These parts are not from your typical junk yard. They are "insurance quality" parts (they should be). They are perfectly good parts taken off vehicles and stored for use. The price includes shipping and most supplies have an agreement to be able to get the parts there w/in 48 hours. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:54 am Post subject: |
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Hi SuperXero, the adjusters here are right….recycled parts are used in large scale in auto repairs. In some states the insurer are required to get the consent of the insured before using the recycled and AME parts, but in other states they’re free to use these parts without notifying the insured as long as the repairs are done properly.
Thanks,
Rupert |
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RupertWBradson
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | In some states the insurer are required to get the consent of the insured before using the recycled and AME parts, |
Rupert I wasn't aware of a state that required consent on used parts..doesn't mean there aren't any...just wondering which require this...knew of a couple on a/m parts but didn't realize any required this on used ones.
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Lori
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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The first part of the OP's post:
| Quote: | | my story is i was involved in an auto accident which really wasnt my fault but both insurances decided both parties were at fault that each person's company pay for their own damages. |
Now isn't that convenient for the Insurer's. By instructing both insured's to file with their own companies each insurer $aves the amount of their insured's Deductible. Seems to me that action was for the benefit of the insurer.
It would seem since both insurer's decided both parties were at fault.... They should have paid each others insured's the full amount of each loss without any deductibles.
I think there is a word for this....... Ambiguity comes to mind.
If I remember correctly [I'm pretty sure I do] when Ambiguity is encountered in a contract the benefit would go to the insured's. As in the insured's(consumers) would benefit by not having any money's deducted. Instead of the way it appears to have been handled by the two insurer's, who are each subtracting the deductible amounts from each claim.
Just my thought's.
FK |
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FK
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| Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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tcope,
| Quote: | Recycled parts are used OEM parts. What was on the vehicle? Answer... used OEM.
These parts are not from your typical junk yard. They are "insurance quality" parts (they should be). They are perfectly good parts taken off vehicles and stored for use. The price includes shipping and most supplies have an agreement to be able to get the parts there w/in 48 hours. |
"insurance quality" parts
This is a new one for me... what exactly is an "insurance quality" part ?? ¿ ? ¿
What makes them different from any other used parts.?
FK |
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FK
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| Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Now isn't that convenient for the Insurer's. By instructing both insured's to file with their own companies each insurer $aves the amount of their insured's Deductible. Seems to me that action was for the benefit of the insurer. |
now come on Fred EVERYTHING isn't a conspircy...depends on the states negligence law..in my state 50/50 means my carrier pays 50% of the other guys damage (including deductible) they their carrier pays 50% of my damage (including deductible) so how do they save then? There are times when the physical damage and the storys told by those involved will not allow a true determination (adjuster wasn't there)....so full denial or 50/50 is all that can be done...example parking lot...cars directly across the isle from each other, both backing hit each other mid lane middle of each rear cover...whos at fault? Both are equally...so...50/50...another is 'green light' question without independent witnesses...rt front to left front corners, whos as fault? (#1 west bound, #2 south bound)...again 50/50 or complete denial which would you prefer? | Quote: | | It would seem since both insurer's decided both parties were at fault.... They should have paid each others insured's the full amount of each loss without any deductibles. |
they decided each were equally or 50% at fault so why would they owe the full cost? they wouldn't.... | Quote: | | This is a new one for me... what exactly is an "insurance quality" part ?? ¿ ? ¿ What makes them different from any other used parts.? |
Fred, I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic...in my area and apparently others used parts are rated, A,B,C, ''A" or 'ins quality' being the best and 'insurance quality' most (all that i know of) insurance company's will only quote 'ins quality' parts.. | Quote: | | If I remember correctly [I'm pretty sure I do] when Ambiguity is encountered in a contract the benefit would go to the insured's. |
In truth when the benefit goes to the insured (in this type of loss) that would mean full denial to the other party...the insured would then be on the hook for 100% of their ded..now in states with 49/51 rule, (if OP is in one of those states) no one gets anything and they each repair their own.. To be honest though Fred I see no ambiguity here at all especially where the contract is concerned.
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Lori,
( Do you think consumers lobby for this law or do you suppose it was the insurance industry)
"" the states negligence law ..in my state 50/50 means my carrier pays 50% of the other guys damage (including deductible) they their carrier pays 50% of my damage (including deductible)so how do they save then? ""
Your kidding... right ¿¿
When consumer buys insurance, Insurer makes promise to pay the cost of repairs should insured be involved in an accident.
Accident occurs..... insurer can't positively assign fault to ether driver.
Cause of Ambiguity: Since the Insurer can neither fully deny or accept Fault, does this mean it should be the insurer's expense or the insured's expense?
Each insurer, three choices:
1] Ambiguity in favor of insured...... Pay full cost of repairs.
2] Ambiguity in favor of insurer....... Pay Half the cost of repairs. (insurer saves Half the cost of repairs)
3] Ambiguity in favor of insurer........ Pay no cost of repairs. (insurer saves Full cost of repairs)
Which would you Prefer??
"" they decided each were equally or 50% at fault so why would they owe the full cost? they wouldn't.... ""
But earlier you stated....
""There are times when the physical damage and the storys told by those involved will not allow a true determination (adjuster wasn't there)....""
Yet the insurer is allowed to reduce the cost of the claim by 50% or even 100% Doesn't that seem at least a little Arbitrary?
We've been over this before in other Threads. Nothing has changed, the insurer will continue to Save at the insured's expense.
| Quote: | | Fred, I can't tell if you are being serious or sarcastic...in my area and apparently others used parts are rated, A,B,C, ''A" or 'ins quality' being the best and 'insurance quality' most (all that i know of) insurance company's will only quote 'ins quality' parts.. |
Actually... a little bit of both.
Who applies the actual Grading of A, B, or C too the parts at the Junk Yard... The Junk Yard guys?? or some non-junk yard, non insurer, non repairer organization??
FK |
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FK
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Your kidding... right ¿¿ |
no I'm not...if the insured has 2k (total including deductible) in damages then the claimant carrier pays 1k...if the clmt has 4k in damages the the insurer pays 2k in damages total...how is that cheaper? if the insurer had only paid their insured it would've cost them 2k less the policy deductible...rather than 3k total..
| Quote: | | ( Do you think consumers lobby for this law or do you suppose it was the insurance industry) |
I think consumers rarely 'lobby' at all...I have no idea who makes up these laws, but you HAVE to have negligence laws on the books Fred..what would you propose?
If we do what you consider (i think) the right thing...each carrier pays the other the full cost, the carriers are still out the same right? | Quote: | | Actually... a little bit of both. Who applies the actual Grading of A, B, or C too the parts at the Junk Yard... The Junk Yard guys?? or some non-junk yard, non insurer, non repairer organization? |
I have no idea who rates them obviously 'at the line' it's the yard...anyone who's been foolish enough to buy a class 'c' (yes i've seen them) can immediately and clearly see the difference...when calling for parts i hear several times a day 'no sorry no ins quality only b and c quality' so most (up standing yards) are not trying to pass one off as another...(most of the time  that is)
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Lori,
| Quote: | if the insured has 2k (total including deductible) in damages then the claimant carrier pays 1k...if the clmt has 4k in damages the the insurer pays 2k in damages total...how is that cheaper? if the insurer had only paid their insured it would've cost them 2k less the policy deductible...rather than 3k total..
If we do what you consider (i think) the right thing...each carrier pays the other the full cost, the carriers are still out the same right? |
Ummmmmmm,
If the damages are 2K and 4K that equals 6K
If one insurer pays 1K and the other pays 2K that equals 3K
Surely your not saying that paying 3K is the same as Paying 6K, as in 3K equals 6K?? Or 6K equals 3K
If so... I'd gladly swap you $3,000 in exchange for $6,000 as often as you would like..!!
The insurer's must love this deal that our mean old, insurer unfriendly legislators and DOI heads have forced them to accept. The Laws the Law..!!
FK, |
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FK
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | If the damages are 2K and 4K that equals 6K
If one insurer pays 1K and the other pays 2K that equals 3K |
I stupidily picked a equally divisible number 2k guy's carrier is still paying more than they would if they had just paid their ins right? and 4k is paying less than would've had they just paid the liab...What do you propose that they each pay 100% of the other guys? Although no one can be determined 100% at fault? I can sure see how you can equally be at fault, but can't see how you can BOTH be 100% at fault...or as I said in 49/51 states everyone fixes their own...again what is the answer Fred...you make the decision who's at (or mostly) at fault in the ''double backing' parking lot accident (example above)...and then are you going to be happy with it? rarely. On a rare occasion both will agree they were equally at fault..but we both know that's rare. So how is this not the best outcome? they atleast get 1/2 their deductible this way...or it's denied pick one. | Quote: | | The insurer's must love this deal that our mean old, insurer unfriendly legislators and DOI heads have forced them to accept. The Laws the Law..!! |
How would I know that? I'm not quite THAT old to have had any in put there...what is the negligence law in your state? (is it PA)?
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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(97 toyota camry)yes i was planning on doing the repair myself since its all body damage to even out my deductable. and no im not a repair tech, it not hard to replace oem body parts, but i was going to leave the painting to the professionals. in all the claims i've ever had this is the first time they gave me money for recycled parts
and in the state of maryland the liability law is if you are even 1% at fault then both parties are equally at fault or so my insurance agent told me
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SuperXero
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Still didn't say 'what' parts they are...are if you are having the refinish done, if we are talking about (I assume) bolt on parts ie hood, fender etc...the shop will need to edge, and/or paint the underside before they would hang then...most likely they would paint all of these off the vehicle...so I don't understand the deal. give the shop the list of parts pay them to get and paint the parts then go pick them up and put them on the vehicle...
| Quote: | | and in the state of maryland the liability law is if you are even 1% at fault then both parties are equally at fault or so my insurance agent told me |
hmmmmmmmm i'll have to check that one out.
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Lori
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Found some info for you re: Maryland: | Quote: | May my insurer repair my vehicle with used parts?
Depending upon the terms of your policy, your insurer
may have your vehicle repaired with parts of like kind and
quality, which includes used parts and after market parts
known as non-OEM (original equipment manufacturer).
However, you may purchase an endorsement that obligates
your insurer to use the original equipment manufacturer’s
parts. You should review the language of your policy to
determine the insurer’s obligation. |
I am assuming Super your policy is not so endorsed correct? (which really for the age of your vehicle I wouldn't either)...If you do have this endorsement...you need to tell the adjuster this(lori side note...I wish ALL STATES and ALL CARRIERS WERE REQUIRED TO OFFER THIS! )
Something else Maryland does I wish all states did (although their limits could be higher) they REQUIRE : UMPD, UMBI, UIMBI, AND UIMPD! (20/40/15)...again I sure wish all states required this!....
Ok, Maryland in only one of the five still under the doctrine of contributory negligence (rare see this in my part of the country anyway...This is one you should really jump on Fred!  )...you agent has it a little wrong....it does NOT mean as your agent stated | Quote: | | that in the state of maryland the liability law is if you are even 1% at fault then both parties are equally at fault or so my insurance agent told me |
Contributor Negligence means if you are even 1% at fault you are barred from recovery...in other words..you can't get the other guys company to pay to fix your car unless he is 100% at fault...They do have Joint and Several...hope this helped answer your question..interesting info (hope I remember it next time a Maryland question comes up though! )
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Lori
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