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 Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: question regarding an accident that was not my fault |
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| I recently was involved in an accident on 11/7/08, it was not my fault. The at fault person hit a garbage truck forcing it into my lane of traffic (coming toward me), and I tried to avoid it but still hit it. The at fault party has GEICO, as do I. I have a 2000 Dodge Neon which I bought used in June, I still owe 3330 on it. I did not have collision on the vehicle because the cost of the collision insurance was almost as much as the cost of replacing the car. My medical bills thus far have been being covered under my PIP coverage, as I am in Florida which I believe is considered a no fault state. I have a broken foot, numerous cuts, bruises, including bruised ribs, as well as memory loss of the accident. I have contacted but not met with an attorney yet. I received the following letter from Geico today: It stated that the at fault party had no bodily injury coverage and that as a result I would be unable to make a bodily injury claim. I am confused as to what exactly this means to me. Does this mean that if my injuries both current and any that may or may not go away in the future will not be paid for if they exceed the 10000 PIP coverage on my policy? Does this mean that I am unable to make a claim for future medical care needed due to any injuries I have sustained, or that I am unable to make any claim for pain and suffering? Any help you can provide me will be appreciated, as I am not sure how I should proceed or whether or not I should try to hire an attorney. I am also unsure if the insurance company for the garbage truck can be sued for any of this? I realize it was not directly his fault however, he did lose control of his vehicle and enter my lane of traffic which caused me to hit him, and be injured. |
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jewelsbyjamie
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure that I've quite understood the part….
| Quote: | | It stated that the at fault party had no bodily injury coverage and that as a result I would be unable to make a bodily injury claim. |
A driver with no liability coverage is as good as an uninsured motorist. Then what exactly Geico is covering him for?
If the other driver is uninsured then you have to file the claim with your insurer under the coverage of uninsured motorist or may have to sue the responsible party for the damages. IMO you're first required to contact your insurance agent for help. He/she might be able to help you in deciding the course of action. |
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JeremyHolter
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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He might not have caused the accident intentionally, and almost all the accidents that happen on the roads are unintentional, but that certainly doesn't free you from the damages caused by you to others.
I'd say that you file the claim with your insurer under the uninsured motorist section of your policy and let the insurance company report the non-availability of coverage of the other driver to the DMV.
However, once your PIP limit exceeds you may receive coverage from your health insurance provider. |
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simon
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I still owe 3330 on it. I did not have collision on the vehicle because the cost of the collision insurance was almost as much as the cost of replacing the car. |
How is THAT possible? If you have a note your lein holder would've required collision and comp...  | Quote: | | It stated that the at fault party had no bodily injury coverage |
I would think that means they have no insurance at all! which leaves you totally out of luck, unless you have Uninsured Motorist PD (for your vehicle) and BI for your injury..
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Lori
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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The statement about collision cost almost as much as the value of the vehicle could only be correct when considered over a long period of time. Surely the premium was not $3300/year for collision. As mentioned, your lienholder should have required you to have collision coverage.
It's not well known but Florida laws do not require a person to carrier Bodily Injury coverage. No agent or insurance company is going to mention this and most will tell people (incorrectly) that it is required. I'm willing to bet that 99.99999% of the carriers would not even write a policy without BI coverage.
http://www.flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqgen.html
"What type of insurance is required to purchase and maintain a Florida tag and registration?
Florida's minimum coverage is $10,000 personal injury protection (PIP) and $10,000 property damage liability (PDL) as long as you have a valid Florida tag."
That is, no BI is required until your involved in an accident and cannot prove 'financial responsiblity"... then the state will make you carry BI coverage.
I'm also thinking that the OP could have misunderstood. Perhaps GEICO was stating that their insured's BI coverage may not be sufficient to address the total amount of the injury. The minimum limits a carrier will write is $10k. As mentioned, the OP's PIP will address $10k in medical bills and this leaves $10k from the other parties BI coverage to address everything else. With the limited info on injuries, I'd say a minimum BI limit would not be sufficient to address the entire injury claim.
If the OP was required by the lien holder to carrier collision and comprehensive coverage and did not.... because it was too expensive... then I doubt the OP was paying for UMBI (uninsured/underinsured motorist bodily injury).
OP, if the other party did not have BI coverage then no attorney is going to assist you with a claim against that party as there is no quick money to be made in that case. Can you pursue a claim against the other vehicle? You could... but that does not mean they are going to pay the claim. It just depends if any fault can be argued against them. I don't know the details. Could you find an attorney to make this argument? Yup! In Florida, you could spit and his 20 attorneys that would try this... regardless as to any real fault against the garbage truck.
I'd verify with GEICO that there is _no_ BI coverage and not just low limits. If the other party does not have BI coverage with GEICO then I'd recommend that you continue your discussion with the attorney so that they can determine if there is any other coverage out there. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: Just wanted to clarify a few things about my situation. |
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| I just wanted to clarify a few things, since there seems to be some confusion. I am in Florida and in this state, you are not required to carry bodily injury insurance. In this case the at fault party has $0.00 in bodily injury coverage. I do have a lien against the vehicle but I purchased it privately from a friend who is holding the lien and as such they did not require that I put collision / comprehensive. As far as tcope's comment about the expense of collision only being not worthwhile over time, that too is correct, however for me to have collision it would have cost me an extra $150 per month which I did not feel was worth in when I was to only be paying on the car about a year. The cost of that insurance would have been $1800 for a car that is only worth about twice that, so in other words if I paid for collision for two years it would have cost almost as much as the vehicle itself. I felt that it was not worth the extra expense. That may have been a mistake but nonetheless that is what I based by decision on. Hope these extra details help. |
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jewelsbyjamie
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Well Jewel this sucks, and Flordia has a stupid law, (sorry floridians)...honey, looks to me like your ONLY recourse if you don't have UM and I don't know how that applies with this goofy, non-required BI business, Tcope can clear that up I'm sure....Jewell do you have UMBI?
T-if he has UMBI, will that apply since the at fault party is 'insured' just not against this loss? Jewell, the guy does have PD coverage right? So atleast your vehicle will be taken care of?
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Lori
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:21 am Post subject: further update |
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| I am now haggling with geico regarding the property damage they totaled the car but were only offering me 2200 at first, I eventually got them up to 3500 but blue book is 4660 so I am still haggling in regards to the property damage. As far as my injuries go my own PIP is paying 80% of them and unfortunately I am stuck with the other 20% of the cost. Unfortunately I do not have and UMBI |
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jewelsbyjamie
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: |
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Its strange that bodily injury liability coverage isn't mandatory in Florida
| Quote: | | That is, no BI is required until your involved in an accident and cannot prove 'financial responsibility"... then the state will make you carry BI coverage. |
Excellent! then if the driver gets the bodily injury coverage now, will the policy apply to this accident as well? Will it then cover the medical expense of the OP?
Sorry jewel, I think you are stuck since you don't have the UMBI coverage. |
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JeremyHolter
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi tcope,
I've got the following information from a gov. site, & it states that
| Quote: | What type of automobile insurance coverage is required for a person causing a crash?
The Florida Financial Responsibility Law requires that any person at fault in a crash resulting in bodily injury and property damage to others must have in effect at the time of the crash full liability insurance coverage. This coverage includes minimum limits of bodily injury liability of $10,000 per person, $20,000 per crash, $10,000 property damage liability per crash, and personal injury protection limits of $10,000 per person per crash. |
Source: flhsmv.gov/ddl/frfaqcrash.html
The above source states that the driver is required to maintain BI coverage of $10,000 per person as a proof of financial responsibility. Can you clarify the confusion?
~Jeremy |
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JeremyHolter
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Hi jewel, when the drivers in Florida are required to carry the bodily injury coverage on their policy, you may get a judgement against the responsible party and can get the license of the driver suspended until the judgement is satisfied.
Try reporting the event to the Florida Bureau of Financial Responsibility and they will lieu a judgement against the at-fault driver. And the judgement take effect immediately.
You may forward the report to the following address..
| Quote: | Bureau of Financial Responsibility
2900 Apalachee Parkway, Room A212, MS 98
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0585 |
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simon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| To clarify the confusion Florida has two main laws regarding insurance coverage. The no fault law which requires that all drivers carry a minimum of $10,000 in personal injury protection (aka PIP or liability). There is also the financial responsibility law which also says that all people are required to carry 10,000 of bodily injury coverage per person or 20, 000 per crash. If said person does not carry the necessary bodily injury coverage, they are in essence stating that they are financially responsible enough ( or wealthy enough) to cover any claim made against them, in an at fault crash, out of their own pocket. In the event that said person if found to have an at fault accident and is not carrying the bodily injury coverage, then this can be reported to the bureau of financial responsibility, which has the power to require that driver to carry bodily injury coverage in the future and/or has the power to suspend the driver's license. If someone does not carry bodily injury in the state of Florida they would not be considered uninsured or in violation of the law requiring that they carry insurance. It is quite confusing and in my opinion the stated of Florida should step up to the plate make this coverage mandatory, period. I will be covered for my injuries under my own PIP policy, as I said before up to the 80%, my recourses for any amount above that would be to sue the driver of the vehicle personally for any additional medical expenses I might have. Of course collecting such a judgment may be difficult if the at fault party does not have the money to pay the judgment, or if the at fault party does not have any property against which I could place a lien. |
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jewelsbyjamie
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:39 am Post subject: |
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When you are covered for 80% of your medical bills and upto 60% of the wage loss under the PIP coverage the medpay will cover the 20% of the remaining medical bill which isn't covered by the PIP. Medpay, however, doesn't offer compensation for wage loss.
| Quote: | | If said person does not carry the necessary bodily injury coverage, they are in essence stating that they are financially responsible enough ( or wealthy enough) to cover any claim made against them, in an at fault crash, out of their own pocket. |
This portion is important, since its may make the state of Florida somewhat tort state, where the tortfeasor can be sued for causing damages to the other party. I guess your only option then remains that you consult an attorney and file a suit against the responsible driver. Well, that's my understanding. Experts do correct me if I'm wrong. |
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simon
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| Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I've got the following information from a gov. site, & it states... |
That site is not written up very well. But in it's defense, it's aimed at providing assistance to people who have already been in an accident, not providing information as to insurance laws. It does also state the following | Quote: | If I own a vehicle and the operator caused a crash involving only property damages, will it come under the Florida Financial Responsibility Law?
No. A crash involving no bodily injuries are subject to the Florida Motor Vehicle No-Fault Law. The law requires that an owner whose vehicle is involved in a crash and the operator was charged with a moving traffic violation, must have in effect a policy with limits of $10,000 personal injury protection per person/per crash and $10,000 property damage liability per crash (compulsory coverage). |
This gives some clue that the Financial Responsibility Laws do not take affect until _after_ an accident happens.
It makes no sense that BI is not required but it's probably just a throw back to 100 years ago and never been brought up to speed. In 15 years or so I don't know if I ever saw a policy without BI coverage. As mentioned, I don't know of any carrier that would write a policy without BI and I don't know of any agents that would admit that it was not mandatory.
What is true, and has been mentioned here, is that Florida is very helpful in assisting people with collecting against people without BI. It's very simple to have the person's licenses suspended. Unfortunately, people who drive without BI coverage are not going to have a problem driving without a license as well. | Quote: | | medpay will cover the 20% of the remaining medical bill |
No MedPay in FL as there is PIP. |
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tcope
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2011 6:27 pm Post subject: accident not my fault yet my license was suspended |
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I have pip coverage with geico. I was in an accident that was not my fault where the driver was sited for the crash. the drive had full coverage with bi. I was cited for 2 bald tires which was thrown out in court and I was not charged. Dmv mailed me a form that I had to prove I had BI coverage or pay $500 (?)..I was the one hurt..the driver whos fault it was-was not hurt..I gave the letter to my attorney...he mailed it back with my pip (not BI) coverage..Dmv suspended my license, registration and tag! How is this possible when the accident was not my fault and his insurance had to pay for my damages?
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elmo0552
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