Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: Life Insurance Warning!
Lincoln Benefit Life
2940 South 84th Street
Lincoln, Nebraska 68501-0469
I signed up for a term life policy 4 years ago that was supposed to be switched to a "whole life" policy after the first year. The way it was explained to me (because I didn't even want to sign up for the term because it was too expensive - $1200) was that after the first year I could switch to the whole life policy which cost $5000 and get a credit for the $1200 for the first year which is what I did. The insurance broker faxed me over the pages on a rush basis after the first year to switch the policy and I faxed them back to her the same day. What I believe was the terms and conditions page had been recopied so many times that you can't even read it. A few weeks later the policy book was delivered to me by the agent. The way she had described the policy was that my money would only grow so according to what she told me I should have $15000 plus interest. What I have now is nothing. I in theory have $12000 because they deduct "costs" and "expenses" - none of which she told me when she was selling me the policy. She told me the reason is because when she was explaining the policy to me her laptop computer wouldn't allow her to show me the costs and expenses. Another feature she failed to tell me about is that I have to be in the policy for 20 years! If I pull out in advance I forfeit $14300. When I received my last statement I didn't understand the costs and expenses and called up Lincoln Benefit to find out what was going on and I found out then for the first time that Lincoln Benefit (my insurance company) no longer sells whole life policies and I had been signed up for an "adjustable flexible" policy. I explained that I had never even heard my insurance broker utter those words and that she had only referred to the policy as a whole life policy. My agent had never told me about costs and expenses and never explained the $14300 default fee if I pulled out before 20 years. She did a bait and switch on me. Lincon's complaint department did an investigation and have said everything is on the up and up and I have no recourse. I was totally lied to and relied on everything she told me about this policy. I was never informed AT ALL about the $14,300 default fee or about the costs and expenses - she simply described my money growing each and every year so by now I would have the $150000 I've put in plus around 5% interest. Lincoln agreed to give me back $5000 if I terminated my policy. However, they kept my remaining $10,000. DON'T DO BUSINESS WITH THIS COMPANY IF YOU WISH TO KEEP YOUR MONEY - THEY ARE THIEVES AND LIARS. I've tried everything I can do to get my money back but it appears I would have to sue them and I just don't know what my chances would be. I work with a law firm and even the lawyers here told me they're unable to understand my policy in full. I depended on Lincoln to explain to me what I was buying and by leaving out vital details I was in fact lied to. A partner at my firm (a very intelligent attorney) told me that even he had been the victim of a similar policy so it can't be just me. I honestly don't know how they can get away with this but it appears they can. I work 13 hours a day as a secretary to support my family and the $10,000 they ended up keeping was two years of my bonuses. This was money I thought I could use in the event of an emergency and now it is all gone. _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:11 am Post subject: Probably you had applied for a universal policy!
My friend, I have sincerely gone through your problem & I have good reasons to believe that you had been enrolled for a universal life policy rather than a whole life policy because in the whole life policy even though you get a deferred tax-cash value benefit (as is similar to an universal life policy), you would also get benefits like the flexible premiums facility as well as the adjustable death benefit. So knowing about the nature of the policy benefits that you're talking about I certainly feel that you have the universal policy. Juanita
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: how it all counts
Yes, its true that the 'adjustable' & 'flexible' clauses would be associated with a universal life policy which is only identical to a whole life policy in its saying that it covers you for the entire life, offer the death benefit to your dependents & stores a cash value. But you must understand that the UL is quite different from the WL when it comes to the benefits that it offers in the form of a relaxation to adjust your premiums or say the death benefit depending upon your insurance requirement.
stay in touch,
Corpses77 _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:06 am Post subject: an explanation..!
Well, my friend if yours is a flexi-universal policy then you're certainly in an awful state I must say. It is undoubtedly a more complex policy than both of these TL (the one that you were in) or WL. You needed to be aware of all the drawbacks of such a policy before you'd have signed in. You could have joined any insurance forum before taking up any insurance policy as the forum members could have analyzed before you the very pros n cons of a policy or say a carrier. The UL is certainly more costlier, it ensures a rate increment as you become older & the worse part of the story is that the much talked-about death benefit is proportional to the cash value storage.
You'd come across a line like the following with most of the policies:
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*Cash values are subject to market risks, including possible loss of the principal amount invested.
So, you can understand as well, how important it is today to weigh the risks associated with a policy, the hidden costs & the intentions of the carrier before taking up a policy. You can easily understand how the surrender value & the death benefits would be adversely affected once you nullify such insurance policies or loans. Once you withdraw your name from such financial bondages you are bound to face a whole lot of fees & penalties. Anyways, I can at the most hope that you'd win the last battle! Regards, Fatman
All I can offer, (other than my sincerest sympathy/empathy for your situation), have you contacted your states Department of Insurance and filed a complaint? They also will have records (many are accessible/viewable on their sites), of all complaints filed against this company.
Thank you for putting out the word on this company, I wish that I personally could offer more assistance. There are a few other regular posters that have vast knowledge regarding life products, (my field is property and casualty) and hopefully will weigh in.
Come on, now how is this helpful/productive or positive, she knows this already,and am sure she wishes she had.
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You could have joined any insurance forum before taking up any insurance policy as the forum members could have analyzed before you the very pros n cons of a policy or say a carrier.
. You probably didn't mean it that way, but comes off pretty critical, and kind of kicking her while down I think, (which is unlike prior posts from Fatman, I must admit)
Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: Sorry if you're hurt !
Hi Lori!
I'd certainly apologize in case any of my comments hurt anyone of us community members. I'm sure you'd empathize with me at the shock I got & the pain I felt for what has happened with gbarney04. I simply wished that our friend would not have been crestfallen if we had the slightest opportunity to analyze the outcomes of such a coverage.
Regards, Fatman
Oh I know Fatman, that you didn't mean it that way, that's why I added,
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You probably didn't mean it that way"
. Your posts always have a ''ring of kindness'' to them, and I always enjoy them. I was afraid she might take it the wrong way, as appeared it was her first time here visiting. And of course we want her to come back . I knew you'd set her straight. I've done the same thing myself !
Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:09 am Post subject: Experience counts
Lincoln Benefit / Allstate
I've investigated many cases just like yours and know exactly what you're going through. It sounds like you were sold either a Universal Life (UL) or Variable UL policy. Of all the statements you claim your agent made, the one about her laptop not being able to show costs and expenses is the one I find the most questionable.
Your problem might be solvable but it is going to take some coaching and contact information I'm not comfortable posting on this site.
Go to www.markcolbert.com
Not 1 in 100 people I meet should have it, but; all the companies want you to sell it as a first line product. Selling UL is about the only area in insurance that I think needs more restrictive regulation.
And selling any policy to some one who has been burned by UL in the past. Pa-leeese! It ought to be done away with. _________________ Mr. Steven Glenn Liggett Indemnity-Income.com
Happy New Years everyone!!
Hey Steve, if it is put together correctly, Universal Life can be the best life insurance policy in the world. However, it can also be an agent's license to steal. I agree that more regulation is needed but not just in the UL arena.
In my workshops and seminars, I tell agents that there are 3 things that will, without question, make every Universal Life policy a winner:
Disclosure, Disclosure, and Disclosure. If it is that simple, why do so many agents abuse it?
Want to know what I feel would make the insurance industry a much safer place for the consumer? Heavy fines or jail time for dishonest agents. Churn an old Whole Life policy, show a vanishing premium on a new UL, falsify an illustration, and get caught; 6 months in jail for each count.
Wouldn't that really make life exciting for a large portion of the Million Dollar Round Table? _________________ Please feel free to go to my website at www.markcolbert.com or, if you have a specific question, you can email me directly. I hope I can answer any questions you might have. If not, I can certainly find an answer right away.
if it is put together correctly, Universal Life can be the best life insurance policy in the world.
IF.
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Disclosure, Disclosure, and Disclosure. If it is that simple, why do so many agents abuse it?
The big problem is a lot of newbie insurance SALESMEN and some senior agents don't really understand the product. They just parrot back what they are told and think they understand it.
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Heavy fines or jail time for dishonest agents.
That might well help change things a bit.
I don't think agents should be allowed to sell UL without a special UL license. After you have been an active agent at least a year or more! _________________ Mr. Steven Glenn Liggett Indemnity-Income.com
Good day Steve,
I'm satisfied that we agree on the "IF" issue. You know, I 'kinda-sorta' agree on the special UL license as well but realize it'll never happen.
A few years back, I investigated a couple senior agents who were selling level term policies for a company. These agents were also selling trusts and the services of a financial planning firm in CA.
In one case, they sold an older couple a 15-year level term policy and represented that when the insurance policy reached its term, the trust would be there, the couple would begin taking minimum distribution from their financial vehicles, the grandkids would get a bunch of money via The Uniform Gifts to Minors Act (UGMA) and everyone would be happy. Sounds pretty common, huh?
The problem was that the insurance company in question didn't sell 15-year level term plans and the all-knowing senior agents had fabricated the illustration. Granted, this [probably] doesn't happen nearly as often as the cases where someone misrepresents the terms and conditions of a UL policy, but it does happen.
When questioned, the agents claimed that they thought the company sold 15 year plans and concocted their own illustration in order to save time. Should then, the powers-that-be at NAIC and the various DOI's require a special license for term policies? Or should we just accept that some agents are lying, cheating, thieves and deal with them accordingly?
I've written a good portion of the Ethics curriculum used by the State of California in the new agent licensing process and am somewhat familiar with the rest of it.
If asked to testify before a court, or anyone else for that matter, regarding U/L familiarization; I would say that every person licensed to sell insurance in the United States of America has the ability to comprehend the Universal Life product and it is up to both them and their companies to work out how this is done.
Want to know what would be really funny? Requiring an M.D. to acquire a special license to remove tonsils and another to examine a rash on your foot. Of course he'd have to have another special license to remove a hemorrhoid and yet another to deliver a baby. Anyway, we tax each license and require continuing ed on each individual subject. I'm glad I'm not a doctor.
Thanks for your input, I look forward to reading your posts in the future.
Mark _________________ Please feel free to go to my website at www.markcolbert.com or, if you have a specific question, you can email me directly. I hope I can answer any questions you might have. If not, I can certainly find an answer right away.
I've written a good portion of the Ethics curriculum used by the State of California in the new agent licensing process and am somewhat familiar with the rest of it.
If asked to testify before a court, or anyone else for that matter, regarding U/L familiarization; I would say that every person licensed to sell insurance in the United States of America has the ability to comprehend the Universal Life product and it is up to both them and their companies to work out how this is done.
InsInvestigator, again right on target.
I also write ethics courses that are offered as both continuing education and law school requisites, and can absolutely state that most producers have only a basic familiarity with UL both as a product itself and the mechanics which drive the policy.
When I conduct seminars, I often state that UL is "not for the stupid or easily mislead." Especially variable UL. These can be tremendous products, but only for the right person and only in the proper circumstance. Gee- like any other product. Ya think?
I have heard, TO THIS DAY, producers state that these products are self-supporting and contain (get this) a "vanishing premium provision mandated by state law" that says that your "policy's premium will be discontinued by law when you turn age 65." You are absolutely kidding me.
Thankfully, I live in and work with many states that DO have rules and law that outlaw these and other misrepresentational acitivities. The problem is that the purchaser often has no clue as to the end-game possibilities if he is improperly (or incompetently) sold in the first place. Often, the consequences are not seen for years, and the agent is commonly long gone.
The company may be held liable, but as the plaintiff- how are you going to prove you were "mislead" unless you have the NOW required documentation as provided by GLB and state legislation? Usually, you can't. Besides, you have to pay for your lawyer, and the carriers, well, you know.
On the other hand, I have witnessed many very professional and competent sales of universal life policies, sold with honesty and need of the customer in mind, and they've worked beautifully over the years.
So...bottom line is the producer and how the product is sold. The problem isn't the laws; it's the lack of convictions and the penalties imposed by the various ruling bodies, especiallyon the federal level.
Pass all the laws you want. If you don't have the ability to mandate and enforce them, it's "another fine mess you've (the feds) have gotten us into, Ollie."
Just a couple of rambling thoughts as I pass the night...
You know; I've always worked hard and done my very best to make a difference for people who've had problems with insurance policies that weren't quite what they expected. I've personally investigated over 2000 cases, testified as an Expert, spent lots of time in deposition, etc.
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I have heard, TO THIS DAY, producers state that these products are self-supporting and contain (get this) a "vanishing premium provision mandated by state law" that says that your "policy's premium will be discontinued by law when you turn age 65."
My only complaint is that life hasn't been fair to me. I don't need to win the lottery or anything like that; If only once, just once, I would like to run across a producer that said something like that - better yet - during a sting or a sit-in, my life would be complete.
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Often, the consequences are not seen for years, and the agent is commonly long gone.
Or promoted to upper management.
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The company may be held liable, but as the plaintiff- how are you going to prove you were "mislead" unless you have the NOW required documentation as provided by GLB and state legislation? Usually, you can't. Besides, you have to pay for your lawyer, and the carriers, well, you know.
Policy owners (plaintiffs) very seldom know what to do in this type of situation and the insurance companies know this. What they don't expect is an agent with sense of ethical responsibility, a few morals, and gonads larger than those of a goldfish to come in and figure out what happened.
The agent documents what happened, how the policyholders were mislead, how the policies were designed to work, and why the sale shouldn't have been made. Then he/she does a little research, makes a few phone calls, finds a lawyer who will take the case on a contingency basis and is retained as an advisor at rate starting at around $85 per hour. It's that easy. In fact, if a few more agents would step up and take a stand on the moral high-ground, guys like me would be out of a job.
I am ALWAYS available to help someone in that regard.
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So...bottom line is the producer and how the product is sold. The problem isn't the laws; it's the lack of convictions and the penalties imposed by the various ruling bodies, especiallyon the federal level.
Hallelujah!!
[/quote] _________________ Please feel free to go to my website at www.markcolbert.com or, if you have a specific question, you can email me directly. I hope I can answer any questions you might have. If not, I can certainly find an answer right away.
simple solution is always to cintact the State Dept f Insurance as well as local Print, Audio, & Video media. _________________ Register Now to have your Insurance queries solved.
I knew you'd set her straight. I've done the same thing myself ! 
It ought to be done away with.
