How good is Safeco for independent agents?

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:15 pm Post Subject:

But I stand by the premise as it falls under negotiating tactics or skills

Adjusters are often rewarded for getting you to accept less than you feel the claim is worth.

I have spoken to many appraisers for multiple companies that infom me that they routinely recieve bonuses for getting shops not to submit supplements and for getting settlements based on their estimates even if they are incomplete.

I also have somewhere in my possession copies of pages in insurance training manuals of many insurance company estimating guidelines

never speak to a claimant when they call

Other tactics are sending a check to an obstinate vehicle owner or claimant with an artificial deadline imposed. Never happens

I don't know which company you work, for but judging by your responses, you obviously do not operate like this but their are slugs that do.

You also have to know that there are disgruntled insurance employees that share these documents and training guides with people not in the insurance business. I personally have seen many of these documents and guides and have had them in my possession at times.

I have generally always been able to help total loss customers acquire addtional funds on claims that they would not have without my assistance, sometimes for as much as 15 percent more. Now if that claims person had not been called on their failure to offer a fair settlement without me showing the vehicle owner where they may be owed additional sums, then one might come to the conclusion that it could be intentional.

I wrote that before I became so darned cute I suppose

Adjusters are often rewarded for getting you to accept less than you feel the claim is worth.

Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:26 pm Post Subject:

But I stand by the premise

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:05 am Post Subject: Sorry for the bee I put in your Easter Bonnet

It wouldn't matter which company I work for but it is one on your ''hate'' list....I know there are slugs out there, but I can tell you there ain't one that pays bonus' for screwing over ANYONE!!! and am certain you can't prove it..you could though prove (or I could) shop's offering kick-backs and payola to adjusters to get cars to them!!!!!!!!

Hate is such a dirty word let's just say some companies I dispise their steering and claims handling practices.

In Illinois Mr Groebner pocketed some pretty hefty personal income for leaning on at least three shops for payola to keep them on the preferred shop programs. Let's just say they are all dirty. The crime he was busted for was income tax evasion. He has to pay the money back and stay in his room til he learns to play nice.

In the gulf, at least one company had a policy of shopping around for engineering reports that would come to a conclusion the insurer favored so claims could be denied. Two women that were subcontractors for the company took those documents and blew the whistle.

Oklahoma tornadoes a couple years back, same insurance company and the same engineering firm. Coincidence?

Northridge fires in California,,,

When pigs fly in Colorado,,,,

Put on the boxing gloves when claimants get demanding was pretty heavily documented.

Yellow sheeting,,, a term used to describe how one insurer had paper work in yellow to designate a code that this was a claim that could be bullied or denied.

Let's recently there was Gil Palmer and autoclub of California

Gil Palmer, a senior manager of Auto Club of Southern California and the principal in charge of their IRP, direct referral program was terminated following an investigation that could reach dozens or more shops in Southern California. Potentially implicated in the ongoing investigation are numerous shop owners, some with high profiles and numerous locations that dominate the southern California marketplace. Rumors allege that Palmer took payoffs in the form of consulting agreements through a sideline business he created. The rumors also suggest he received gifts in the form of cash, paint jobs on hot rod cars (you might see it on-line!), leather jackets, Rolex watches, lavish vacation accommodations, and much more. While official sources at Auto Club remain silent, the investigation continues today. Charges and lawsuits are pending and are expected to be filed within days and weeks.


These were all cases or incidences of management using tactics to under pay or deny claims or to collect payola. It does exist today, and you can deny if you like.

Sounds like things are a little muddy everywhere. It may not be as bad as it was at the shop level when appraisers were recipients of fishing trips, free work, help with roofing their house, etc such as it was back in the 70's and 80's, but I am sure there are still pockets of this activity going on.

I would call a reward getting to keep your job or getting promoted for using tactics which may contribute to settlements being taken for less than their value. A reward could even result in a merit pay.

Are there companies that grade their appraiser on performance
Am I a bald face liar, I think not. I stand by my comments.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:49 am Post Subject: Key performance indicators

Lori and Mr. of the Ozarks, my brother is an adjuster for Allstate. His anual pay raise is directly affected by the percentages of alternate parts written. There is more but I don't want to steal your thread. Go to job vent.com, read the progressive stories.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:16 am Post Subject:

Mike you still did not prove your point.....You posted quips about dirty adjusters and shops...not about company's 'rewarding' or giving 'bonuses' to adjusters for under valueing claims! Which is what you said they did....

This is reaching...

I would call a reward getting to keep your job

A reward could even result in a merit pay

Are there companies that grade their appraiser on performance

Adjusters are often rewarded for getting you to accept less than you feel the claim is worth

Go to job vent.com, read the progressive stories.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:14 pm Post Subject:

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:24 pm Post Subject: It is all about greed

Greed breeds mistrust, malfeasance, corruption, collusion, conspiracy to commit fraud with partners in the collision side. Drp relationships are nothing more than veiled agreements designed to repair vehicles cheap and fast, both of which deny policy holders and claimants of what is due them. This example is another where the insurer settles claims paying based on what they feel they owe rather than using the guides accurately.

All of the cases I presented were examples of greed either by the company, their appraisers or adjusters and regional claims managers to commit fraud to keep money in the insurance coffers or their collective pockets. Of course, it takes a weak shop owner to help and abet the corrupt insurance employee. Takes two to tangle. Is there corruption in the collision side of the equation? You bet! As soon as the insurance industry continues to thin the herd of providers and those shops that did not learn to market themselves and learn who the customer really is, then maybe some of those shops will cease to exist as well.

I have never overcharged for repairs; If anything, I and others are underpaid by companies like yours that come up with notions of blend within all designed to keep more money in the insurance hands and out of the consumers. Just today, I am completing a job where the insurer overpaid by 1200 dollars on one of their insured's vehicles. Will I keep the money, hardly! Because of their ineptness or inability to hire an appraiser than can actually write an accurate estimate, they were giving money away. My invoice will be for only those repairs and procedures we peform and agree to with the vehicle owner and the overpayment goes back to the vehicle owner to return to their provider since I am not party to the contract of insurance, but I am contracted with the vehicle owner.

This whole thread kind of reminds me of one regressive adjuster I encountered a few years ago. When I wouldn't bend over and grab my ankles for him to abuse me or my customer, He barked I ain't got time to F&#K with you. I wonder what negotiating or training class he learned that in. He was shown the exit and told to get in his little white vehicle and go back to the mother ship and do not ever darken this shop's doorway again. And to think I almost got a clean break from the forum without being a bald faced liar, a thief, a man with no integrity. Oh well.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:34 pm Post Subject: I forgot to add this, someone emailed this example to me

Robert Dietz was a senior claims adjuster for Farmers Insurance Exchange from 1987 until 2001. He currently is a claims practices expert and testifies nationally on insurance issues and bad faith.
Statement: “I used to be an Insurance Claims Supervisor. When I started out, it was human beings making decisions. Now insurance companies use computer programs to automatically cut 20 percent from what they know they owe on a claim.”
In the mid-1990s, consulting companies introduced software programs that turned claims operations into “profit centers” by routinely underpaying


A KING-5 investigation into insurance business strategies found that insurance companies have adopted strategies designed by business consultants to reduce claim payouts based on profit motives, not on what was owed for the claim. The consultants urged “more aggressive tactics when settling claims to send a message to lawyers and the public” and that “paying "promptly and fairly" does not reward Allstate shareholders with profits.” KING-5 found that Allstate and State Farm are former McKinsey clients.iv claims. The programs helped adjusters place values on insurance claims.

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 03:41 pm Post Subject: On the subject of bonuses

Statement: “I was forced to use it. You even got bonuses for denying claims.”
According to memos from Farmers, Dietz and his colleagues' salaries and bonuses were tied to practices that encouraged the delay, denial, underpayment and forced litigation of claims. One document encouraged adjusters to settle small claims below their value, adding adjusters should learn “…to say “sorry, no more,” with a toothy grin and mean it.”iii

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 07:21 pm Post Subject:

Nice site Mike read the fine print by chance?

All content and information on this site is my opinion or the opinion of those referenced. This site is for educational purposes. The information in the Forums or from other people, blogs or web sites are provided at face value, we have not confirmed any of these stories/opinions

Adjusters are often rewarded

I almost got a clean break from the forum without being a bald faced liar, a thief, a man with no integrity. Oh well.