How important is a divorce decree to determine beneficiary?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed, 01/13/2010 - 03:15

My stepfather died leaving his ex-wife as beneficiary (he never changed it to my mother as they were only married 4.5 months.)

However, the divorce decree clearly states that as part of the divorce the former wife has no rights to any life insurance policy.

So... would the policy end up being paid to his current wife (my mother) or the estate (of which my mother is the rep) or what?

Anyone? Thanks in advance.

Posted: 13 Jan 2010 03:35 Post Subject:

Divorce decree means little to nothing at this point. The beneficiary designation will most likely stand and his ex wife will receive the funds.

If the insurance company has already cut the check, your chances of having anything end up in your mother's hands is nil.

Benefiary designations trump legal documents. Your dad could have signed a will a month ago naming your mother the heir to all his assets and the person to receive his life insurance proceeds, without a change in beneficiary on his actual policy, the Will, and any other document accomplishes nothing.

Sorry for the bad news.

Posted: 13 Jan 2010 03:42 Post Subject:

There has been no check cut. The insurance company asked if she wanted to contest the status (or whatever the term is) and sent her papers to open a case contesting it. It asked for her reason to contest it and now everything (dispersement) is on hold.

Interesting that they would do this if the divorce decree means nothing.

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

Posted: 13 Jan 2010 03:52 Post Subject:

By means nothing I mean holds no legal authority. Since money has not been paid, there's a chance you could use the decree as supporting evidence that the beneficiary was due to be changed.

Fight like hell if you have to. Then make sure your beneficiary designations are current, and remind all your friends to do the same. We see a lot of people upset over outdated beneficiary designations. Thinking they were to receive money because they were once told that was the plan, or maybe there was a Will, but without the beneficiary change they saw nothing.

The good news is, you guys caught this at a crucial stage. Good luck.

Posted: 14 Jan 2010 04:52 Post Subject:

I learned something interesting today that I wonder if it could have any bearing on this whole thing.

I learned that the ex-wife went down to the company where my step-father worked (a major auto maker) and claimed that she was still married to him and signed up to get pension benefits. They actually sent her the first check which went tomy mom's house.

So she basically defrauded the company to get benefits that were not hers (she admitted to her son that the lied to get the money.) Is this something that the insurance company should know or would it not matter to them at all?

Thanks again.

Posted: 14 Jan 2010 11:23 Post Subject: insurance

That's horrible!! How can someone, with a conscience, do something like this?! yes...I think it IS something the Insurance Co should know. However....you said they were NOT married?..correct? When she went to the workplace, they didn't question her about what she was doing, etc?

she admitted to her son that the lied to get the money.)

Would her son write some kind of statement to about this?! Gosh...Life Insurance does bring out the 'darkness' in people, sometimes.

Posted: 14 Jan 2010 06:32 Post Subject:

Yes, they were no longer married. They were divorced in 2007 and there is a provision (line item) that states that she loses all claims to pension, life insurance etc.

I am not sure how she got away with it really. She did file under her old married name although when they were divorced it was stated that she would return to using her maiden name which she has until now.

And sadly enough the woman is all but estranged from her son, so yes he'd gladly make this statement.

Very unfortunate indeed.

Posted: 14 Jan 2010 10:22 Post Subject:

I still see potential problems in getting the life insurance company to pay the benefit to your mom instead of the named beneficiary. This story might strike a cord with someone in processing, but it's ability to sway them, from a legal stand point, isn't much. Character assassination isn't exactly a means of getting the insurance company to overlook obligations in a contract.

Here's the issue from their stand point. Legally, the named beneficiary is this ex wife. By law she's got a right to the benefit because the contract says she does. Now, there is a document, the decree which states that the insured and owner of the policy wouldn't want his ex wife to be the beneficiary of his policy. BUT...she still has a right to it so long as she's the named beneficiary. Insurance companies are ripe targets for lawsuits (all that money makes you a neon deer in the middle of an open field on the opening day of hunting season). Their decision on who or how to pay will focus on what the minimal legal recourse would be.

Say they got sued by the ex wife for not paying her the benefit. What's there defence? That a legal document that doesn't hold water to the original contract stipulated that she wasn't supposed to be the beneficiary?

I'm sorry to sound like I'm cheering against you, but if you believe that the word of a contract should be followed, payment to the ex wife is basically how this should work. Her keeping it would be sick and unfortunate.

Posted: 15 Jan 2010 03:25 Post Subject:

"she still has a right to it so long as she's the named beneficiary."

Perhaps I'm viewing it differently but the divorce decree is also a legal, binding contract which she signed giving away any such rights. The decree doesn't say that he "wouldn't want her to be the beneficiary"- the decree states that she agreed that she was giving up all rights to the benefits by signing it- which she did.



"I'm sorry to sound like I'm cheering against you."

I don't view it that way at all, I appreciate your input- I'm not looking for people to agree with me, just advice from those who know more than me.

And character assassination and pulling heartstrings isn't what I had in mind. The woman has now said that she was planning on getting back with my stepfather and other things so I wouldn't put it passed her to say anything to get her way. I just didn't know if the pension issue should be brought up.

She's finally going to meet with an attorney tomorrow. She's ready for whatever comes and I've warned her that it might not work out for the positive, no biggee.

And again- thanks for the input!

Posted: 16 Jan 2010 02:04 Post Subject: insurance

I would think (but, remember..I'm not an Expert..) that whatever it says in the Divorce decree is binding....it would state who is the Beneficiary of a Life Insurance policy, who gets what properties, etc.

Posted: 17 Jan 2010 01:07 Post Subject:

It is correct to point out that a divorce decree is a legally binding contract. However, what we have to remember is that the life insurance contract is also a legally binding contract, which will follow through on it's obligations.

The life insurance contract states that the life insurer will pay a benefit amount to a beneficiary upon the receipt of proof that the insured person has died. Their obligation is to pay the benefit to the beneficiary who is named in the contract. Intent isn't exactly their concern.

The divorce decree is a contract that stipulates certain obligations or agreements upon divorce. Now, like a Will--which stipulates how one wishes to have their assets distributed--the decree can be in contradiction to the life insurance contract. This has been tested in the past, and the contractual obligation of the life insurance contract has been upheld.

I would bet that the only thing the divorce decree speaks to is the agreement of the ex wife to give up interest in assets and give up any rights as a beneficiary, perhaps even an irrevocable beneficiary (very rare circumstance that a document like a divorce decree likely cannot overturn). Just because the ex wife has agreed to relinquish interest in her ex husband's assets or life insurance benefits, it's still up to the husband to change beneficiary designations.

The one saving grace this situation might have is the request made to begin the process to change beneficiary. It's still iffy.

Posted: 17 Jan 2010 02:58 Post Subject:

A divorce decree is a contract between the parties getting divorced.

An insurance policy is a contract between the owner of the policy and the insurance company.

The insurance company must abide by the terms of the insurance contract. They are not a party to the divorce decree so without a court ordering them to do something different, they must pay to the beneficiary.

Posted: 17 Jan 2010 10:14 Post Subject:

The attorney feels that since the the divorce followed the original assignment of her as beneficiary that it would negate the standing. Unfortunatley I wasn't there to address the info I've been given here.

So assuming the ex-wife gets the check, given the divorce decree is there a cause of action against the ex-wife on behalf of the estate for keeping or accepting monies she's given up all rights too? I understand of course we're probably treading into territory that exceeds the nature of the forum.

Posted: 17 Jan 2010 10:45 Post Subject:

That's a question that would most likely require legal action and a court decision, or settlement between parties.

The rule is money gets paid to her. The grey area is, as you've decribed, she's legally agreed not to accept it.

Posted: 18 Jan 2010 09:57 Post Subject:

I learned that the ex-wife went down to the company where my step-father worked (a major auto maker) and claimed that she was still married to him and signed up to get pension benefits. They actually sent her the first check which went to my mom's house.



This violates federal law which, in the absence of the new wife's affirmative act of signing away her right to the assets/benefits, makes the current lawful spouse the de facto beneficiary of retirement plan assets/benefits. If the statements above are factual, the new wife would have a cause of action against the pension plan trustee for any monies actually received by the ex-wife, and the pension plan trustee, in turn, would have a cause of action against the ex-wife who had no legitimate claim to the benefits. There is no similar requirement of federal law regarding life insurance proceeds. Recovering the money is an entirely different story, especially after it's been spent.

A divorce decree is a contract between the parties getting divorced.



Although it might be thought of as such, technically speaking, this is not correct, since marriage is, technically speaking, not a contract but an agreement. A divorce decree is simply a civil court order ("decree"), not a contract, which must be recognized by other courts or jurisdictions as taking precedence over the prior agreement it negates, such as the mutual agreement to be married.

Courts do not generally have authority to order insurance companies to pay policy proceeds to persons other than the named beneficiaries, although they do have the authority to find/declare a named beneficiary as "disqualified" from receiving the proceeds -- as in the case of a criminal act on the part of the beneficiary that leads directly to the payment of policy proceeds (just ask Scott Peterson how much of Laci's life insurance proceeds he was able to take to state prison following his conviction for her murder) -- and if declared disqualified, an insurance company would be legally prevented from paying the proceeds to that person.

Some states, like New York, have laws that require insurance companies to abide by divorce decrees if they have been properly served on the insurance company by the party which will ultimately benefit, such as an irrevocable beneficiary.

Having said all this, as BNTRS pointed out, keeping one's beneficiary(ies) current with one's insurance company, pension plan trustee, and/or retirement plan custodian is the best recommendation we as agents can make.

Posted: 02 Feb 2010 02:18 Post Subject: Follow up

Just a follow up to benefit any future readers...

The insurance company referred to Kennedy vs. Plan Administrator for Dupont Investment & Savings Plan and state that indeed the divorce decree could not interfere with the original agreement of beneficiary and that the ex-wife would receive the funds.

However, I noted that the aforementioned case stated that there was some sort of paperwork that was never submitted (something called a QDRO) and I don't know if that's in play in this case or not.

Next step is seeing if there is another way to disqualify the ex-wife, who knows.

Either way, thanks for the input, I hope this thread is of help to others.

Posted: 02 Feb 2010 02:38 Post Subject:

Thanks for the update, let us know how it ends.

Posted: 05 Mar 2010 03:14 Post Subject:

Just submitting something I found while doing DD. In this ruling this Michigan law supersedes the ERISA issue. I believe that Michigan is the only state in which a divorce terminates rights to life insurance etc. Could be wrong.

Does it make a difference where the insurance company is located?






http://www.ocjblog.com/?p=2975

Posted: 05 Mar 2010 02:31 Post Subject:

Location of the insurance company wouldn't matter. What does matter is the state in which the contract is issued.

Posted: 06 Mar 2010 03:24 Post Subject:

Gotcha. It was all done in Michigan.

Posted: 18 Apr 2010 08:34 Post Subject: Recourse when beneficiary is overlooked

If the life insurance company ignores the ex spouse who is listed as beneficiary and pays the contingent beneficiaries, what recourse does the ex spouse have

Posted: 18 Apr 2010 08:42 Post Subject:

Since ERISA is federal would it not trump a state law?

Posted: 21 Apr 2010 02:12 Post Subject: Update.

ERISA does indeed trump the state so the insurance company can go ahead and pay without recourse (as several here did advise) but the ex-wife keeping the money is another story. It's pretty much played out like the previous posters said.

There has been a suit filed and there is a restraining order on the funds so the insurance company has not paid out yet. If there is no settlement soon it will move to a federal court for some reason. I believe this is so the insurance company can get cleared to release the money to the ex-wife but I'm not sure.

I suppose of the ex-wife was denied the money by the insurance company she could go after them, but even if she got the money, she'd legally have no right to it so I'm not sure how that would work.

Basically the insurance company has a right to pay out the money to her, but she has no right to keep the money... at least in Michigan. Fun stuff. :P

Posted: 23 Apr 2010 08:21 Post Subject:

Life insurance does not provide anyone a "profit". Life insurance provides funds following the death of the insured that the beneficiary may use to continue their own life with (ideally) minimal financial impact.

Traditionally, life insurance proceeds were supposed to represent the lost future income of the decedent. No amount of money can make up for the emotional loss of companionship or nurturing that results from the death of an individual. Other, perhaps even more pressing, issues concerning payment of taxes due at death are also a valid use of life insurance today (and will be especially true beginning 1-1-2011, after the unlimited estate tax exemption returns to the $1,000,000 level as the Obama administration is strongly suggesting).

Confusion, however, about insurance and profits has arisen in the last 20-30 years, with the arrival and spread of universal and variable life products. Many agents misrepresent these policies as "investments" when they are not. Because they are misrepresented as such, people believe that the products are intended to provide a profit, which is just not true.

Can a variable policy provide a good/better rate of return compared to a universal or "plain-vanilla" whole life policy? Certainly. And they can also crash and burn. Can a universal life policy collapse even though the insured has been dutifully paying premiums for 20 years? Absolutely. Will a person who buys term life insurance and dies two days after the end of the term leave a death benefit behind? Absolutely not.

Some agents do a terrible disservice to their clients when they talk up the "tax free" aspects of borrowing money from a cash value policy in later years, leaving some clients with the impression that life insurance is more important than saving money for retirement in a 401(k) plan, an IRA/Roth IRA, or other tax-advantaged qualified plan. Some have even convinced clients to stop funding those plans and dump the money into a VUL policy instead. Dreadful.

So, no, "u took any life police it will give u profit" is a complete misunderstanding of the products.

And I wish posters would stop using this site as if it were a text messaging forum. U no who U R.

Posted: 17 May 2010 12:06 Post Subject: want to know about anything

I want to know about life insurance plz reply me

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Posted: 17 May 2010 03:20 Post Subject:

What would you like to know?

There are textbooks full of information on the topic in addition to all the actual field experience those of us on this forum who have worked in the industry will be willing to share.

It appears that you are in India, where some of our American concepts may not be entirely applicable.

Posted: 17 May 2010 04:10 Post Subject:

In doing some research last week on the topic of divorce decrees and life insurance proceeds between ex- and current wives and children for the revised edition of a textbook for life insurance Continuing Education, entitled "Problematic Beneficiary Designations", that I've been asked to update in part, I ran across an interesting US Supreme Court decision concerning ERISA-governed group life insurance policies.

The case is Egelhoff v Egelhoff (532 U.S. 141 [2001]). The case is distinctive because it was a 7-2 decision in which the the high Court seemed to both affirm and contradict some its earlier positions.

In the matter before the Court, Mr. and Mr. Egelhoff, residents of Washington state, were legally divorced in 1994. Two months later, Mr. Egelhoff was killed in a traffic collision. In addition to the ex-wife, he also left two children from his first marriage.

Washington state is one of the dozen or so with laws that terminate a spouse as beneficiary immediately upon the divorce judgment. The theory is the marriage is dead, the spouse beneficiary is dead -- similar to voiding an insurance contract -- if nothing legally existed, there is nothing to make a claim against.

Mr. Egelhoff did not make any effort to change the beneficiary statement on his employer-sponsored group life or retirement plan in the two months before he passed away.

The most recent Mrs. Egelhoff, as named beneficiary, presented her claim for the life insurance proceeds. The two children filed a claim on the basis of Washington law (Wash. Rev. Code § 11.07.010(2)(a) [1994]), alleging that as the divorced spouse, she was no longer the beneficiary de facto.

Following its contractual obligation, the insurance company paid the $46,000 proceeds to the named beneficiary, the most recent ex-Mrs. Egelhoff, and let the parties fight it out in court. The trial court and state appeals court ruled in favor of the ex-wife. The Washington state Supreme Court reversed in 1999. The matter then went to SCOTUS in the 2000 term, and the opinion was published in 2001.

Justice Thomas wrote the majority opinion of the Court which what joined by all except Justices Breyer and Stevens, who dissented. Justice Scalia wrote a separate concurring opinion joined by Justice Ginsburg.

It was the opinion of the Court that because this was an employee benefit, the life insurance policy was governed under ERISA which, according to the supremacy clause of the Constitution, supercedes conflicting state law.

Essentially, the Court said, if this had been a personal life insurance policy, state law would indeed have invalidated the ex-wife's claim to the proceeds. But under ERISA, the only way to remove the ex-wife was to have changed the beneficiary designation on the policy, which Mr. Egelhoff was free to do the day the divorce was granted. But apparently he made no effort to do so, which the Justices interpreted to mean he must not have wanted anyone else to be the beneficiary or he would have changed it, and the high Court ruled that the named beneficiary was entitled to the proceeds. They sent the case back to the state trial court for adjudication "not inconsistent" with the opinion of the Supreme Court.

So, on the basis of this case (I did not find any similar cases later than this one), the heart of the matter is a distinction between personal and employer-sponsored life insurance. Personal policies are governed under state law, and employer-sponsored plans are governed under ERISA (when there are more than 20 full-time employees or equivalent).

ERISA is clear, regardless of prior beneficiary designations, the most current spouse is automatically the de facto beneficiary of life insurance and retirement plans provided in the workplace, in the absence of that person's affirmative disclaiming of the right (the spouse must agree to sign-off as the beneficiary rather than sign-on).

The hardest thing for anyone to do following the death of a person, whether they leave a will or not, is to read the mind of the dead person. Seances have yet to be held admissible in court. The deceased Mr. Egelhoff may have wanted the proceeds to go to his children, but he did not do anything affirmative to make that happen. So whether he would have wanted the money to go to the ex- or not, that's where it ended up and no one could take it away from her.

For insureds/policyowners, the matter is also clear. You must make valid beneficiary designations from the very beginning, and they should be reviewed and updated as often as necessary, which really means after every "life event" -- birth, death, marriage, divorce, adoption, business startup, business termination, change in employment, and so on. No specific order of events, no specific time period (but annually might not be a bad idea, if not more often). Not just life insurance, but retirement accounts, IRAs, and other such assets that permit naming a beneficiary. Everything else needs to be discussed in documents known as wills or trusts. You cannot leave anything undone!!

Posted: 21 May 2010 06:41 Post Subject: pension

si estoy divorciada legalmente y mi ex se jubila, me tiene que dar parte de su pension?

Posted: 11 Jul 2010 08:14 Post Subject: Beneficiaries

SO what if your the new wife and the ex has a minor child that your new husband is paying child support for and the divorce degree states she is the beneficiary if there are minors in the home, but he has changed the beneficiary on the paperwork on the life insurance company. Does she still have say in the monies? or Do we need to amend the divorce papers?

Posted: 12 Jul 2010 04:19 Post Subject:

A court order may have an effect on the right to claim the money, but it cannot force the insurance company to pay the money to someone other than the named beneficiary, if there is one.

Prior to the death of the insured, the person with the court order could take it to the insurance company and ask, "Does the policy match this court order?" If it does not, then the person with the order can march back into court and claim that the order is being violated, which has its own set of legal ramifications.

If an insured fails to follow a court order, subsequently dies, and has not changed a beneficiary designation to match the court order resulting in a payment of policy proceeds to the named, but improperly named, beneficiary, the person with the court order now has a separate claim against the beneficiary who received the money.

While they would probably win the case, collecting the money is a whole different matter.

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 02:21 Post Subject: beneficiary rights

I am the named beneficiary mom they were going through divorce they say now its federal statue because someone tried to claim I know estranged wife so she has been notifed denied but she has a right to appeal till september do I have to wait or can I try to enforce legal binding contract of me beneficiary and get a lawyer or do I have to wait cause I know she will appeal and she also set up a probe he died in an accident.

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 02:36 Post Subject: get a lawyer

the divorce decree section d life insurance policies it says n/a then last page warning this an offial cort order sectin d removing or causing to be removed the other party or children of the parties from any existing insurance coverage' including medical' hospital dental automobile and disabiliti insurance and part e that both parties shall maintain all insurance coverage in full force and effect

Posted: 08 Jul 2011 07:31 Post Subject:

It's difficult to understand your writing and whether you are speaking about a court order or a life insurance contract. Court orders have little effect on a dead person. If the decedent was supposed to have done something according to a court order prior to his/her death and did not, you may have an enforceable claim against that person's estate. A failure to attempt to enforce a court order on your part could also be viewed as a waiver of your rights.

Some states have specific laws that automatically remove a former spouse as a life insurance beneficiary at the moment the divorce is granted. That ex-spouse can be put back on as the beneficiary, but it would require the submission of a new beneficiary statement.

Posted: 21 Jul 2011 09:41 Post Subject:

If you are divorced then you cant be beneficiary of the life insurance policy of the spouse.

Posted: 21 Jul 2011 06:31 Post Subject:

If you are divorced then you cant be beneficiary of the life insurance policy of the spouse.



This is entirely INCORRECT. Although insurance laws in about 18 states automatically remove a spouse as beneficiary at the moment a divorce is granted, none of those states prohibit the owner of the policy from immediately naming the now ex-spouse as the new beneficiary. The owner has an inviolable right to name anyone as the beneficiary.

Posted: 22 Jul 2011 11:29 Post Subject: insurance

(I made a similair comment on a previous post).........I think if a couple gets divorced, the Insurance policy should be 'null and void' for the EX. I've read ALOT on EX's trying to come back and collect money when they have no right too!! Greedy!!..that's what I say!! I've actually know couples who will stay married (not happy at all in their marriage) JUST for the Life Insurance.

Posted: 22 Jul 2011 02:06 Post Subject:

the Insurance policy should be 'null and void' for the EX.


This is a misunderstanding of the nature and purpose of life insurance.

The several states that automatically sever an ex-spouse as beneficiary do not prevent the policyowner from renaming that same person as the new beneficiary. It is a personal decision on the part of the policyowner who or what will be the beneficiary. It has little if anything to do with greed.

Now, there are those "greedy" people who believe they should be entitled to money that is left to someone else -- we see those kinds of complaints here all the time. That's an entirely different issue.

I've actually know couples who will stay married (not happy at all in their marriage) JUST for the Life Insurance.


If this is true, then there are couples who have no clue as to how their life insurance works. And that would be the fault of their agents and attorneys. This would be the poorest excuse for staying in a marriage that I have ever heard.

Posted: 23 Jul 2011 01:50 Post Subject:

(I made a similair comment on a previous post).........I think if a couple gets divorced, the Insurance policy should be 'null and void' for the EX. I've read ALOT on EX's trying to come back and collect money when they have no right too!! Greedy!!..that's what I say!! I've actually know couples who will stay married (not happy at all in their marriage) JUST for the Life Insurance.



You're painting everyone with the same brush stroke. Many times life insurance is used after a divorce, in some cases policies that already existed and in others brand new policies are purchased. Ultimately insurable interest is only required at issue. And even after divorce insurable interest still exists. Alimony or child support, care the children, etc. are all reasons to have life insurance on a former spouse that you either own or are named beneficiary on.

Posted: 12 Jun 2012 10:56 Post Subject: Life Ins.

I live in MI. My ex husband and I purchased a life ins. policy some years ago. Since I was the younger of the us it was placed in my name as the owner with him as a rider alonger with the children. I kept the policy and cont to pay on it. He has now passed away. I have submitted the paperwork to the claim department. Now they are requesting the divorce papers along with the settlement. What does this mean. Because we've been divorced, but I own the policy can they refuse to pay

Posted: 13 Jun 2012 02:41 Post Subject:

Your situation is complicated. Michigan law (MCL 700.2801 and MCL 700.2807) automatically revoke the beneficiary interest of ex-spouses in life insurance. As the owner of the policy, regardless of marital status, you may still be entitled to the proceeds.

You should have redesignated yourself as beneficiary following the divorce to prevent this problem. You may want to obtain a consultation from an Estate Planning-Probate attorney for guidance on how to proceed.

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Preliminary results concerning the analysis identified that 72% of the male participants wanted females who were available to more casual and temporary interactions as opposed to females in search of something long lasting. Another useful observation worthwhile remembering is that males with big jaws and also smallish eyes were often known as players and thus less likely to commit to something long lasting, Or marriage ceremony. There was clearly a distinct link with casual sex and guys who possessed visible features like masculinity, vast noses, sq,rectangular jaws and little eyes. The participants from the published research project were recruited from the 3 biggest free dating sites, And an mind boggling 85% of objectives claimed single profiles pics reflected real life intentions.

These studies shows that runners could then, Along with understanding of these subliminal judgments, Help to make much more advised options on their future lover as per the particular romance that they will want.

The final outcome for the explore reveals that people, When taking on board all these subliminal evaluations, be able to make informed decisions and opportunities pertaining to potential compatibility. Hence next time you might be checking the singles pages and you spot an intriguing photo, make use of a deeper, more in depth look, as their intentions are written all over their face charm date reviews.

Posted: 27 Dec 2019 05:26 Post Subject: moldova beauty

Anyone move from FL to the triangle and regret it

I grew up in orlando. I came to NC for education. NC is an alteration of pace from Orlando. i am not beautiful woman in spanish bored here. My activities here center more around the outside. ascending, bicycling, And studying the outdoors. I can take weekend trips to the coast and the lake. I spend my weekends researching farmer's markets and farms.

New Smyrna beach is still one of my top picks beach to visit near Orlando. My hobbies in Orlando were shopping the outlets, joining Downtown Disney, And the amusement parks. Orlando worked for me when I was single and clubbing.

I am a Miami native and find that living in Florida entails more of an outpouring of money for many techniques, So I found bored out of poorness sometimes! There are just more local events here in Raleigh that are free for the public. Rnc2mbfl's posts list a lot of good examples of the varying activities that appeal to a variety of people, And how life is unique in both areas.

And as others have outlined, I spend a lot more time doing outdoor activities all year round here, Not only from our area, But also in other regions of the state. issues just more outdoor options, and less hostile weather, In this in NC vs. fla, IMHO. The parks system here is truly awesome and the community definitely makes use of the time that are provided for it. with luck, This has led to a healthier lifestyle!

Two years in and no remorse so far!

I have one friend that moved from NC to FL to position herself to eventually enter graduate school. She was is a young jobs (not on time 20's) And wasn't born and raised in NC. She found it easier to submerge herself into various cultures in FL. (She was entering grad school for some type of unusual studies.) That came down to her only reason for leaving.

My other friend or relative lives in FL. She has already been through it for 10 15 years and really, really, should move to Raleigh. Her house was available on the market; Then the FL housing market declined. simply, She can not move. She visited Raleigh a few times some time ago. therefore, She has produced a ton of friends. She's in their own 50's. as a result, It's not like she is punching the bars and nightlife scene.

Beckycat, I hope family and friends arrive in Raleigh soon. I've read you now for awhile, specially the ones about your visit. It really makes me take a second look at Raleigh from a fresh point of view. Tampa and Orlando i discovered to be boring everytime I went up there. They are sightseeing opportunities but if you live there how many more times can you find Universal Studios amusing? Nice villages, Just not many community fun-filled activities.

Miami is not regarding making $10 $12hr. chances are you'll struggle. i grew up in Kendall a town of Miami and my 1 bedroom cost $1095. If i wanted to reside someone's remodeled garage I could have paid $800 900.

I moved there in 1997 for college or university. I can tell you I had the TIME of my life. when you're a young single woman, You'll find that you wont have to to pay for much. when you are dressed for the occasion, Bars and clubs will usually let you in for free with free drinks. I could get my studies done and my PARTY ON. This all depends of course on exactly what gal you are. Guys yet will find themselves broke real quick. my husband and i found that every activity in Miami revolves around drinking and partying. Not bad if you are 22 but once you get older take into account other things. That is where Raleigh takes a different approach. There are alot of community / outdoor activities you can do for free.

Everything in a city like Miami cost $$. there is a free concert in downtown but the parking will run you $15 20, No food can be taken to the premises so you're stuck buying their food. For a family that has the capability run you $3.50 a sexy dog ($4.50 when you wish supreme) and in addition $2.00 drink per man. i'm aware crazy.

For the guys I can tell you if you want to see everyday materials sensual looking women in the world Miami will not let you down.

For those who are in college this is a great city to live in and you'll have fun. But when you're beautiful lady in spanish anything like me, Once the hanging out is over, You have your act together and looking to make more bank Miami is not the city for you unless you are in a specific industry.

If your organization deals mainly with Latin America Miami is a hub for that industry.

have you ever wanted to open up a club, Hotel or just work how in the "food and management" Miami is the right choice. I'd hate to bring it up but exotic dancers also do well in Miami and nearby Broward county. Anything that is because of "Entertaintment" Miami will create more career possibilities opportunities for you in those sectors.

One last thing be ready for people to speak to you randomnly in Spanish. There are more and more people who can't speak English. You can't avoid this most of these folks "trot" Miami and because of this they'll get ANNOYED at you for not being able to speak Spanish. I know it's not cool but that's how the culture works.

i really don't regret moving. All his dad lives in Miami. I visit every three months and am always thankful I don't suffer from the traffic, The world, And all the money I have to shell out for things I know should be cheap.

I've lowered my cost of living by 25% moving to Raleigh. may possibly struggle.

Therein lies propagates itself all over.

this is correct. The women are the prettiest in the world but they can cost you everything in your wallet trying to live up their expectations.

If firm deals mainly with Latin America Miami is a hub for that industry.

Per these post, I totally arrange.

One last thing be prepared for people to speak to you randomnly in Spanish. There are more and more people who can't speak English.

It's true that you'll find lots of Spanish speaking people in Miami but my experience is that 98% of them also speak English. in my closet, The only times I have not been able to communicate in English is when I was trying to speak to a very low paid laborer.

Posted: 30 Dec 2019 04:45 Post Subject: russian mail order

How To Make A Girl fall in love with You

So you feel so much about a girl, And you want to make her fall in love with you. is really a, You ought to understand that most guys who are successful with women are not exceptionally wise or rich.

Not all guys are rich and handsome all over. So do not need be rich or have a Brad Pitt look to get a girl fall in love with you.

For her, It is irresistible to see the vibes of power in your body language. Girls are naturally weak, That's why they always seek a presence of powerful man which can make them feel safe.

If you want to make a girl fall in love with you, You should make her understand that you can handle your life no matter whatever troubles life will russian ladies throw at you. You should be your confident outlook.

word of advice 2. Are You wanting to Win Her Affection?

It isn't wise to win kindness of a girl. should you so choose this, You turns into less attractive for her. It is really a big turn off for a woman to see that somebody is trying to impress her.

If you accomplish that, You can her higher value than you have. If she gets higher value than you can, you will end up not hot for her.

accordingly, would you do to impress her? The best tip is be yourself and do not try to fake anything. do nothing just to impress her.

recommendation 3. Have A Good beautiful russian girls nonverbal communication

When she is with you, You should show your body language as though you are very at ease yourself. Maintain a good rate of eye contacts with her, And day to day smile at her.

Do not complain about anything whenever you talk to her. Speak clearly and show her that you are very at ease with what you are saying.

Tease her to enjoy, instead of to make her laugh. Tease her try not to insult her. If you are wondering how to make a girl adore you, You are trying to learm why a girl falls in love with a man.

A girl falls obsessed about a man because she finds shelter and security in his presence. Make her believe that you can to satisfy her emotional and physical needs, And she will very likely to adore you.

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