I cannot believe my eyes

Submitted by MaxHerr on Tue, 06/22/2010 - 01:45

The following message just landed in my personal email inbox. Don't know whether to post this here or in the Insurance Fraud forum, but this ought to crimp a few feathers:

I’m involved with a life insurance strategy that’s so powerful, many agents could retire with just one sale. No kidding.

It’s easy to sell life insurance when the buyer doesn’t have to pay a premium for it. This system does not use premium financing, life settlements or any other confusing, complicated methods. It’s simple and easy for a prospect to understand and easier yet to sell.

There are qualified prospects in your area available and need to identify competent agents quickly. For more information and details, click here:



Obviously, I'm not going to supply the link.

Yeah, LIFE INSURANCE . . . The "one sale to retirement" product. If it were true, wouldn't everybody want to be "doing it". Imagine, no premiums to pay, no premium financing, no life settlements or other "confusing, complicated methods." Sounds like FREE INSURANCE!! How hard is that to sell? (So hard, it's unlawful in every state!)

This one's a first for my inbox at verizon.net.

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 02:12 Post Subject:

(sigh)

If I were a retired or perhaps soon to be retired individual with a large cash position could I not use high early cash value WL or perhaps SPWL to buy life insurance? If the agent illustrates the idea as a repositioning of assets instead of paying a premium is he really a crook?

High early cash value products are used in business planning situation often when a business has a large amount of cash on hand, or has low expenditures with higher cash flows to essentially store the cash in life insurance products while acquiring life insurance.

If an agent suggests using a SPIA, or bond yield to pay insurance premiums is he a crook?

What about agents that perform 1035 exchanges and use cash values to pay premiums? I've seen a lot of companies use that as an option for premium payment. Are they crooks for their zero premium life policy?

So this one's a little gimmicky in it's approach and extremely over exaggerated in it's profitability, but nothing they've mentioned is illegal.

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 02:21 Post Subject:

BNTRS, don't disagree with your position for the most part...BUT :arrow:

Each of your propositions involves premium in one form or another. The scam Max posted specifically stated

It’s easy to sell life insurance when the buyer doesn’t have to pay a premium for it.



The scammer said that it's "easy to sell life insurance when there's no premium." What life insurance do you know of that requires no premium, period? I don't know of any. Each of your examples requires premium to be paid, but I want an example of "free" life insurance. I'm not talking about that stuff you get from your bank that gives you 30-90 days of "free" accidental death coverage or something like that. I'm talking true, free insurance.

Oh yeah, it IS illegal to give free insurance in every state that I know of. I don't know 'em all, but I know 36 of them. Considered an illegal inducement. I do know of some carriers, for example, that will give you the first month free, usually some type of "Gerber Grow-Up" program or something like that for kids, but that's about it and they have to give it to everyone that buys and it's approved by the state DOI.

InsTeacher 8)

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 02:36 Post Subject:

INS Teacher, you have a point in that I assumed this was mostly a scheme concerned with using cash from one position and using it to finance life insurance while using cash values to represent a zero net cost to acquire the insurance. I'd doubt highly a method for "selling" life insurance could exist that was profitable enough to "retire after one sale" that involved giving life insurance away for free.

On the topic of giving it away, I seem to remember a campaign Massmutual ran a few years ago to give low income family in New York state free life insurance. Don't know anything about it besides that.

Actually I just searched it and found something.


http://www.massmutual.com/mmfg/pdf/lifebridge_eligibility.pdf

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 04:12 Post Subject:

BNTRS, I checked out the link, and it seems to be a really cool program. MassMutual is a reputable carrier as well, and this looks like a really nice way to help lower income people secure their kid's college education.

Notice that it's a 10-year level term policy, there's underwriting involved, and the beneficiary is automatically the trust established by the carrier which will be used to pay for the education. It's also pretty cool that you can use the death benefit to pay for pretty much any post-secondary educational need. There are other qualifiers, but it's definitely free-insurance!

I would imagine that this has absolutely been approved by the DOI(s) and has been granted some exception due to the "charitable nature" of the program. Nonetheless, it's sweet. I had no idea it existed, hope it still does, and plan on turning on some friends I know to it. Thanks for pointing it out. I encourage everyone to check out the link as well- it's seriously worth it.

InsTeacher 8)

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 07:07 Post Subject:

Here's some "stuff" from the linked website:

You're probably wondering how this strategy works.

To put it simply, this strategy uses life insurance to create an immediate benefit to the client. While life insurance is traditionally used to provide a benefit at someone's death, in this system, an immediate benefit is provided to the client and the client pays no insurance premium out-of-pocket. In essence the client gets paid to do the strategy, that's why it's so powerful.

This strategy automatically overcomes the two big objections to selling life insurance:

Objection One: I don't want to pay expensive premiums

Objection Two: I don't want to pay for something that doesn't pay a benefit until I die

Just so you're clear, this strategy:

* DOES NOT use financed life insurance premiums - there are no bank loans of any kind
* DOES NOT use life settlements - policies are never sold or offered for sale
* DOES NOT require that the client take risks or die before a certain date in order for the strategy to work.



And here's what their "webinar" offers:

If you attend the Preview meeting to see this system, here's what you'll learn:

* How to Make Only One Sale and Get a Minimum of 10 New Clients - Earn 6 or Even 7 Figures with Only 3 or 4 Sales per Year
* How 1 Licensee Put 17 Affluent Prospects in a Room, Having Never Met Them Before, and, after Spending Only 1 Hour with Them Wrote 17 Life Insurance Applications Resulting in a 100% Close - and the Prospects Completed the Applications for Her!
* How to Sell 5-20 High Premium Life Insurance Policies All at the Same Time to Highly Qualified and Enthusiastic Prospects in a Group Setting
* The Stories of 3 Licensees Who Each Had Clients with Net Worth in Excess of $100 Million Seek Them Out and Ask to Buy Life Insurance as a Result of This System
* How One Licensee Got 18 Immediate Referrals From a High Net Worth Client Without Even Asking and the Client Made the Introduction Calls for the Agent!
* How to Turn Every New Client into your Raving Advocate Literally Recruiting an Average of 13 New Clients for You



I once knew a blind agent who memorized the life application and "guided" his clients to fill out the app, so that's not so farfetched. And I have my health insurance clients fill out their own apps.

Now getting that call from the $100 Million net worth client . . . hasn't happened yet.

I'm still having trouble balancing the "How to Sell 5-20 High Premium Life Insurance Policies All at the Same Time" with the "buyer doesn't have to pay a premium" statement in the original email and elsewhere on the website.

But at least "the Client Made the Introduction Calls for the Agent!" solves the dilemma of the Do Not Call list!

Oh well . . .

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 04:02 Post Subject: insurance

Ok...........if the Life Insurance is "free", then how can an Insurance Agent make any money off the policy (commission)? Obviously they can't. And, if they can't, how can they retire making no money at all? Life Insurance with no premium?...that would be a good trick. I'm wondering how many people have fallen for this scam already?

Posted: 22 Jun 2010 06:55 Post Subject:

Max, notice that the website doesn't say "no premiums". It says, "no premium out of pocket". This is obviously very different.


The MassMutual program is completely legit. It is 100% free. There are criteria that must be met and it is underwritten. By "free", I mean that the insured doesn't pay anything. I do think that a premium does get paid and MassMutual pays the premium to itself.

Believe it or not, it is very difficult to sell free life insurance. I can routinely sell multi-million dollar 5 figure premium policies, but I can't get a single struggling mom to apply for a free policy. They can't believe that there isn't a catch. There isn't one.

This also isn't some sort of sucker some one with something free scam. The people who qualify for this coverage aren't the people that an agent would want for a client and agents are forbidden from trying to get additional business from people in this program. It's 100% charitable and pays no commission.

Posted: 23 Jun 2010 12:26 Post Subject:

Yeah that was my understanding.

To the original topic, yes I'd say this pitch is way over inflated. But moving assets from one place to another and having the other be life insurance is a common practice employed by lots of agents and lots of clients.

The scam here is the money agents are going to pay the people who are going to teach them how to do this, when they have everything they need already to make it happen, except for maybe a more experienced agent to work with.

Posted: 23 Jun 2010 02:23 Post Subject:

Max, all I can say is... I can't say anything. More to the point, I don't know what to say. I'm "typeless."

My brain immediately went to that good ol' boy Charles Ponzi, hero of the age-old Ponzi scheme. If I knew how to insert an image, I'd put a picture of him in this post. (Can someone pm me and tell me how to do that?)

While this doesn't reek Ponzi, the shadings are there. Any producer that falls for this rhetoric deserves what he gets. As well, if you are successful at pulling off this game, you're probably a pretty slimy person in any number of ways. Then my brain went to the ethical values surrounding the idea. I have sold I don't know how many contracts in my life and never once did any of those illustrated scenarios posted by Max have ever happened to me. Wait...let me take another look... nope, nothing

I've had plenty of referrals, I've had calls from multi-millionaires- I've been in one room with a whole bunch of people, but not to sell a number of policies to 15 different people who are going to talk eachother into buying the stuff I'm offering, but to close deals that involved a lot of people. I've closed a few buy-sell agreements where everybody and their uncle had to be in the room- the principals, lawyers, accountants, producers, managers, etc. It was like someone was having a baby and everyone wanted to be in the delivery room.

So, once again I say- the only way to a successful career in this biz is to work hard, have a good ethical stance, take care of your clients and be a student of your industry. Pretty simple. Go the slimy route and you'll get everything you deserve. It's generally not a matter of if, but when these people get nailed. Good. They put a black eye on our industry and frankly, should be hung and dried. Sorry about the rant, the brain is going a million miles an hour.

Max- send me the link you got, assuming it's clean and you're cool with it. I want to take a look.

InsTeacher 8) [/img]

Posted: 24 Jun 2010 02:39 Post Subject: insurance

"No premium out of pocket." That's basically saying it's free. But,......what Insurance is free!!?? Usually you have to pay SOMETHING toward it. GUEST...can you explain what you mean by, "people who qualify for this coverage aren't the people an agent would want for a client."..why not? You have to admit, though,..if a company say 'something is free', there USUALLY is a catch.

Posted: 24 Jun 2010 09:14 Post Subject:

"no premium out of pocket" doesn't mean free. It just means that one doesn't have to reach into their pocket. For instance if the premium is $1500 and the dividend is $1600, one can pay their premium without digging into their pocket, but $1500 is still being paid.

The insurance from MassMutual is free. It's a charitable program from MassMutual. There is no catch. They aren't the people that an agent wants for a client because one has to be low income to qualify. A life insurance agent can't make a living selling individually underwritten policies on low income individuals.

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 02:20 Post Subject: insurance

So...please explain to me how it's STILL being paid, when the 'consumer' is not paying it? I'm not trying to be negative about this subjuct, I'm just trying to find out if this IS legit. You said for "low income?" Do any other Insurance company do this? If the consumer is not paying the premiums, then..who is?

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 03:19 Post Subject:

Put the following into Yahoo search. It will be the first link. It's completely legit.

washington post lifebridge insurance

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 04:12 Post Subject: insurance

ok...Is this JUST Life Insurance or any kind of Insurance (health, etc), as well?

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 04:26 Post Subject: insurance

I've looked up Mass Mutual and read a few things about it. They talk about Life Insurance (term and Whole). They talk about the "premiums paid every month/year", etc. However....I haven't read anything (as of yet..) that said that Mass Mutual pays its own premiums. Am I looking in the wrong place?

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 04:56 Post Subject:

Search for the article. It will be the first hit that you get. It's by Michelle Singletary Washington Post September 16th 2005. The article clearly and accurately describes the program. The program makes no money for the company. It gives them some goodwill and is simply a charitable endeavor.

The problem is that it's easier to sell a $1,000,000 policy than it is to give away a $50,000 policy.

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 04:59 Post Subject: insurance

I can see the "problem". Some people may just think the entire 'process' is a scam. Hope you see my point. No..I haven't read that certain artice, yet. Thanks for the info.

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 05:06 Post Subject: insurance

Well..........I looked up the website, again. I 'searched' the name you gave me (Washington). I even 'Googled' her name. Nothing, with that name, was found by me..sorry.

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 06:33 Post Subject:

Try this. I can't post a link. militarymoney dot com /columns/1/292

Posted: 25 Jun 2010 10:51 Post Subject: insurance

Well....I looked at MilitaryMoney dot com. The only thing I found was an article that Michlle wrote..about a woman, released from prison, who started her 'life over'. She had started a new job, etc. Also...another article about Military personel who are in debt, etc. (I'm in the Military, myself). NOTHING on her saying anything about Mass Mutual Insurance.

Posted: 26 Jun 2010 09:41 Post Subject:

Sorry that I can't properly direct you to it. I can assure you that it's legit and is free to the consumer. There are age and income restrictions and the money can only be used for education. I believe that the person must be between 22 and 40 and have a household income of less than $40,000, but must be working. They must be standard risk or better. It is a 10 year $50,000 term policy. The death benefit gets paid into a trust and will be used for higher education.

Posted: 26 Jun 2010 02:22 Post Subject: insurance

I DID find information about Life Insurance. It was talking about certain premiums you pay (depending on whether it's Whole or Term Life). I couldn't find anything about a Life Insurance policy that is free to consumers.

Posted: 26 Jun 2010 04:42 Post Subject:

Finding information about life insurance is irrelevant. We are talking about specific information. Try this:

massmutual dot com/mmfg/pdf/lifebridge_eligibility.pdf

Posted: 27 Jun 2010 03:32 Post Subject: insurance

That's where I looked, originally...at Mass Mutual. The website talks about several different kinds of Life Insurance you can purchase, etc.

Posted: 27 Jun 2010 11:02 Post Subject:

You'll see tons of stuff if you look at the Mass Mutual website. Instead, look only at that PDF on the website.

Posted: 29 Jun 2010 04:23 Post Subject:

OK. Here are the specifics of the "LifeBridge" policy/program:

You are eligible to apply for the LifeBridge program if you are:
• Between the ages of 19 and 42;
• The parent or legal guardian of one or more dependent children under age 18;
• A permanent, legal resident of the United States;
• Currently employed full or part time with a total family income not less than $10,000 or more than $40,000 annually;
• The only member of your household who has applied for the LifeBridge Free Life Insurance Program; and
• In good health as determined by MassMutual’s underwriting guidelines.

You would not be eligible if you:
• Have been diagnosed with heart disease, cancer, HIV or Type 1 Diabetes;
• Currently abuse drugs or alcohol or have abused them within the last 10 years; or
• Are currently on probation.
Additional underwriting will apply.

But, notice also:

How long will this program be available?
The LifeBridge Free Life Insurance Program will be available until 20,000 policies have been issued, or through December 31, 2009, whichever comes first. MassMutual will reassess the program after that date.


The program is of limited duration and value (max $50,000, and highly restricted -- insured's income between $10,000 and $40,000, not currently on probation, only one to a household, etc), and is not germane to my original post. As "free insurance" it may or may not have been approved in all states. As a public service, it has some value, mostly PR for MassMutual (which is a fine company in its own right):

INSURANCE COMPANY TO GIVE AWAY $1 BILLION IN FREE LIFE INSURANCE

My original post was about selling insurance to very wealthy persons "with no premium" associated. That, to me, is highly suspect, and was the impetus behind my post. The solicitation I received as a licensed agent appears to me to be "too good to be true." And when that's the case, it probably is.

Posted: 30 Jun 2010 04:06 Post Subject: insurance

MAX.....yes, I agree. Usually if I see something that's "too good to be true", it probably is. Life Bridge?..I've never heard of it..really. I don't know anyone that has it, anyone. It seems like there are alot of 'limitations' to this 'free' Insurance.

Posted: 01 Jul 2010 01:24 Post Subject:

SDCharger, There is no reason why you would have heard of the LifeBridge program. It's not like they would do a heavy advertising campaign about giving away free life insurance. There is no reason to put "free" in quotes. It is absolutely free for the participants.

It isn't too good to be true. It's a good thing. It's not a replacement for getting necessary life insurance. It's designed to make sure that there is money for college. The "limitations" has no impact on how much coverage they would give out. It just set the criteria of who would be eligible.

Posted: 01 Jul 2010 09:36 Post Subject:

Life Insurance with no premium?...that would be a good trick.


I do come across such proposals as 'life insurance with no-exam' and 'life insurance with no premium'. It's hard to guess if such coverage would at all be helpful to us under crisis. I guess it's high time that we stop fancying about "free" services. We must understand that 'Nothing in this world comes for free'. There's always a catch!

Posted: 02 Jul 2010 01:27 Post Subject: Wow

Interesting, sounds to good to be true. Maybe I should become a sales agent haha. Rather owning a store

Posted: 02 Jul 2010 01:30 Post Subject:

Life insurance with no exam isn't free. It just means no exam. Because there is no exam, it is typically more expensive.

Some things are free. As we've talked about, the Lifebridge program is free, but it is for working poor people with kids.

Posted: 02 Jul 2010 03:44 Post Subject: insurance

I've searched Lifebridge, on the web, and can't find any information on it. If this Insurance doesn't need any kind of exam, from their consumers, they are taking a big risk.

Posted: 02 Jul 2010 11:31 Post Subject:

Max has posted details.
Not needing an exam doesn't equal big risk. This is because no exam doesn't equal no medical questions.
Insurance companies would prefer to do small policies without exams because the cost of the exam and getting medical information could equal an entire years worth of premium.

Posted: 03 Jul 2010 04:49 Post Subject: insurance

Just about ANY Insurance company has Medical exams, to determine the 'risk' : 1) the risk medical status on the person who wants to be Insured..2)If that particular Insurance company wants to take that risk. Thsi entire 'free Insurance' thing still sounds very fishy to me. Never could find anything, VIA the Internet, on it.

Posted: 04 Jul 2010 12:26 Post Subject:

You may not be able to find it, but you have three insurance agents on this board who have told you that it exists and Max copied and pasted the information. It is a CHARITABLE endeavor.

Asking medical questions is not the same as having a medical exam. If a 60 year old wants $5,000,000 of coverage, there will be a medical exam. However, I don't know of a single life insurance company that would do a medical exam on a person under the age of 40 for a $50,000 10 year term policy.

In fact, unless there is a specific reason, they won't bother getting an attending physician statement. You have to understand that the exam will cost more than the insurance as will getting the medical records.

Posted: 05 Jul 2010 01:15 Post Subject: insurance

I spoke to a relative, of a friend of mine, this weekend. He's an Insurance broker. I was asking him questions about this "free Insurance." Actually...he DID say it DOES exist. However, he doesn't recommend it because...(paraphrasing here)....'that kind of Insurance doesn't have a money reserve to back them up, in case of emergencies and there is a huge amount of limitations. The small amount of benefits they SAY they have, they don't pay for.' (end of paraphrase)Well....I guess that 'sums it up' for me.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 10:05 Post Subject:

SDchargersfan, get a relative who knows what he is talking about. One of your problems is that you have a tendency to latch onto incorrect information and believe it as fact. Haven't you figured out yet that when people on this board tell you something, you get correct information. This board has the advantage of people being able to correct incorrect information.

The free life insurance has the exact same reserves as all MassMutual life insurance policies. There are no limitations that don't exist on other policies. They pay their claims. The policy is no different than any other 10 year term insurance policy. There is no difference in the policy language.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 11:57 Post Subject: insurance

Actually....I'm referring my 'clients' to other (low-income) Insurance policies that the relative recommends.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 12:21 Post Subject:

I have no idea what is meant by a low-income insurance policy.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 01:02 Post Subject:

My head just exploded.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 04:52 Post Subject:

Wait, is this conversation about free life insurance still taking place?

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 05:53 Post Subject: insurance

Wait, is this conversation about free life insurance still taking place?

Actually.... i really don't know. As I'm reading through the thread, I'm a bit confused about the "free" Insurance that is being discussed. In ONE post, it says "premiums are paid..". In ANOTHER post it says the Insurance is "free". As I posted above, I have a friend (a relative, of a friend..) that I asked advice about. I also told him about this Forum. he is very interested in the information, etc. on how this Forum works. he said he would, "love to post correct info and give some insight...." Low income Insurance?.....exactly what it means. A certain type of Life Insurance, that is 'geered toward' low income individuals (I that that was pretty self-explainatory).

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 06:39 Post Subject:

The "free" insurance conversation started simply to point out that there is such a thing as free insurance and there aren't strings attached. Most conversations about free insurance involve somebody trying to sell something. That isn't the case with the Lifebridge program.

Is "low income insurance" something different than insurance policies with small face amounts? I've truly never heard of the term before.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 08:47 Post Subject: insurance

Is "low income insurance" something different than insurance policies with small face amounts? I've truly never heard of the term before.

They ARE Insurance policies..Life Insurance policies. The broker I talked to had shown me some paperwork (of course, I didn't see a name on the paperwork) that a low-income family bought Whole Life Insurance for $50,000!! The family pays $10 per month for it!! I don't know which Insurance company, my friend went through. Since he is a broker, he deals with many types of Insurance and different Insurance Co's. However....this family ( I think a 'family of 4') has less than $800.00, per month, as income.

Posted: 06 Jul 2010 08:52 Post Subject: insurance

I've already given a few of my 'clients' this Insurance informtion, how to get ahold of the broker, etc. Thery're (my 'clients') are pretty excited about it!!

Posted: 09 Jul 2010 05:59 Post Subject:

The "free" insurance conversation started simply to point out that there is such a thing as free insurance and there aren't strings attached. Most conversations about free insurance involve somebody trying to sell something.



Actually, the post I started was based on my disbelief at the suggestion that there was a "free insurance product" being marketed to wealthy persons.

I, like a number of others, was unaware of the LifeBridge program from MassMutual, which was directed at an entirely different type of insured, and from all appearances is/was a remarkable program.

But it does/did come with its own set of significant "strings" attached and intended to prevent most persons from obtaining it. The program was due to expire at the end of 2009 (subject to reevaluation), so I don't know if it still operates, or in what states it was ever approved for marketing.

The "agent solicitation" I posted is most likely being misrepresented when it uses the term "free" or "no premiums".

Posted: 10 Jul 2010 04:15 Post Subject:

It's a pension plan with a free health check up.

Posted: 11 Jul 2010 02:36 Post Subject:

[/quote]was unaware of the LifeBridge program from MassMutual, which was directed at an entirely different type of insured,

I looked at the Mass Mutual website and couldn't find anything on it. "..different type of insured.." How different? What makes the insured different, in this case? I guess this LifeBridge is not making sense to me.

Posted: 11 Jul 2010 08:06 Post Subject:

OK, so you couldn't follow the link. I did, and on Pg 2 of this thread, fourth post from the bottom of the page, just above one of yours, I copy and pasted the most important aspects of the program -- age and income requirements -- and the fact that it is limited to one per qualifying household.

It's not that the insured is "different" per se, but the "target market" so to speak. The target of this program is the same kind of person who often gets solicited for "home service" (or "industrial") life policies -- very low value and relatively high cost whole life policies (in CA, the total amount of such insurance on any one life is limited to just $10,000, so the MassMutual program has/had somewhat greater value).

But, in my view, the MassMutual program is/was mostly a public relations thing. Excellent motives, but greater PR value for their agents who could say to more affluent clients, "Here's the kind of company we are." Works for me.

Many other insurance companies are just as philanthropic when it comes to supporting underserved communities, just in different ways than free insurance.

Posted: 11 Jul 2010 08:03 Post Subject:

Yes, the Lifebridge program is good PR for MM. That being said, an insurance company or any business, would be foolish to not do their charity work in a way that gives them quality PR. It seems like giving away free insurance is a good way for an insurance company to give back. As was said earlier, the biggest challenge with the Lifebridge program is that it turned down that it's actually quite difficult to give away free coverage because people don't believe that it's free.

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