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 Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: LIfe Insurance |
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I recently posted this question.
"I am 17 and will be 18 in april. My father was recently killed how will the insurance company deal with my situation? The company is ING."
I was not very clear so I will start from the begining. My father was killed at his home during the execution of an search warrant. They say he brandished a gone and open fired. He does have an life insurance policy I am the named beneficiary. There is not a POA or a trust setup. I am 17 and will be 18 in April. The incident happened in Canton, Ohio which is were I lived till 2 months ago. I now live in Killeen, Texas. My question is will they hold the insurance money? I know I am going to get some money for his death but he was signed up for double of what I am getting but they have to Investigate and determine if I am eligible for the double amount. |
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stormjor2
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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Oh storm, I'm even more sorry now, on so many levels..
Honey, they have already assured you that you will be getting the amount of the policy? What you are waiting on is to see if the double indemnity will pay? That's good news I wasn't sure if life insurance excluded death that occured while in the comission of a felony, and apparently not, but apparently they have to figure out if it qualifys for double indemity which is usually ''accidental death''...right? Has the insurance company said anything about when they would release the money? It's ok to ask them...some states you can preform some things as an adult at 17 and a half, although I'm betting this isn't one of them...worse case scenerio they would hold it till you are eighteen which is only four months..I think you should just call them up and ask.
Agents: there is no 'felony' exclusion in life policys?
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Lori
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: insurance |
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| OMG!! I couldn't imagine the pain you're going through. I just want to say my prayers are with you. |
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sdchargersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Agents: there is no 'felony' exclusion in life policies? |
That's correct.
You can be in the commission of a felony, get killed and the life insurance policy still pays off. Medical insurance and disability income insurance has the "won't pay if you got hurt or disabled while committing a felony" exclusion.
| Quote: | | My father was killed at his home during the execution of a search warrant. They say he brandished a gun and opened fire. |
Hmmmmmm, going out like Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.
I couldn't tell you definitively but I highly doubt the insurance company would consider going out in a blaze of gun fire with the police "an accident." Suicide by cop is still suicide and dying by suicide is NOT an accidental death for life insurance claims purposes. However, murder is treated as accidental death.
| Quote: | | There is not a POA or a trust setup. |
Most 17 year olds wouldn't know about a POA. But that's beside the point. A POA is dead along with the Grantor of the POA. They are automatically revoked by state law (Florida) when the person dies who granted the Power of Attorney.
| Quote: | | I now live in Killeen, Texas. |
I'd move! 
Interesting, thought provoking thread.
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GarySpicuzza
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | That's correct.
You can be in the commission of a felony, get killed and the life insurance policy still pays off. Medical insurance and disability income insurance has the "won't pay if you got hurt or disabled while committing a felony" exclusion. |
Thanks for the clarity Gary, also of course all p&c policys exclude damage while in the com. of a felony...
I suppose the arguement could be make it was certainly an 'accident' that he died....OP if you don't mind be sure and let us know the rulings that come down from the insurance carrier...and once again, I just can't tell you how terribly sorry I am.
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Lori
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| Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Not to throw water on this fire, but certain states DO allow an exclusion (if included within the policy provisions) regarding the payment of a death benefit if the contributing cause of the death was the insured committing a felony.
These are normally considered "optional" (to the carrier) provisions as to their inclusion within the policy. They're not hugely uncommon, but you do see them every once in a while. You would have to look to your policy for any exclusionary language.
As to the payment of the death benefit- you cannot receive life insurance death benefit dollars until you are 18 years of age. There are a number of ways to handle the disbursement of the funds, normally they will be held in trust by the surviving spouse "for the benefit of" (FBO clause) of the minor child. They will typically be released to the child once the kid turns 18.
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InsTeacher
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Apparently in this case, this policy does not have that exclusion since they have offered payment, and are only investigating the double indem. part...where do you weigh in ins. teach on that? accidental death or not? I vote for paying the double as accidental death UNLESS there is a 'in the commission of a felony exclusion' on the double indemnity...but apparently there isn't or they'd have already denied that...or if he said something along the lines, of 'shot me'' or something like that...(ie gary's suicide by cop theory)...anyway where do you vote?
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that the coverage for "accidental death" is attached to the primary policy via a rider, at additional premium. These riders all have their own sets of definitions, which may or may not be the same definition as shown in the base contract.
While the base policy may not have "felony" exclusions, the rider could easily have language that states that death caused by commission of a crime (including misdemeanors in some policies) will be excluded under the accidental death rider language. This means that there could be coverage under the primary contract but the company will not pay the accidental death benefit. As well, the carrier might exclude the coverage entirely or just on the rider or pay both benefits.
Suicide is never considered an accident. If for some bizarre reason this is eventually determined by the coroner to be suicide through a determination that the deceased purposely caused his own death by threatening the authorities ("brandished his weapon"), and the policy is still within the suicide exclusion period, the beneficiary may receive nothing but a return of premiums paid as a death benefit.
Again, you'll have to look at the specific policy to determine whether coverage applies under the accidental death benefit as well as to the base policy.
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InsTeacher
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I'm thinking in this young OP's case, it must not be spelled out (in the double indem. rider) in exclusion re: felony...of course suicide would be...(I'm not buying that as a defense in this case) what I'm asking is let's assume that there is no 'felony' exclusion...what is your opinion if this would or could be classified as 'accidental death'?
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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I vote for paying out the double benefit to the beneficiary simply on the logic that his father's death was not pre-planned rather an act-of-the-moment. The definition of accident may not justify the incident, but neither it was a planned action by the deceased. If there isn't anything specifically written on the policy regarding suicide exclusion, the boy should receive the proceedings.
Insteacher, I've heard that for a certain time frame, for one year in most cases, suicide isn't considered for paying out the benefits, but once that period is over the beneficiary may receive the benefits from the life policy even when the policy holder had committed suicide. Is this true?? |
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jeorge
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: insurance |
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| Doesn't sound like it was 'pre-planned' to me? Just an accident.......which is sad. I'm sorry to hear all of this. In THIS case ( I'm not an expert, but, just looking at the threads..) I don't think the money should be withheld. |
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sdchargersfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | but once that period is over the beneficiary may receive the benefits from the life policy even when the policy holder had committed suicide. Is this true?? |
Jeorge I can tell you from personal experience (twice as a matter of fact which is two times to many for ANY family to deal with) this is true...if the suicide exclusion time is passed (if it's in the policy) then yes they pay..
I agree that they should pay the double indem. to me this is 'accidental death' however I do not know the standard life policy definition of this term either....but to me it clearly was an accident.
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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All states have suicide exclusions. Depending on the state, it could be one or two years. In the event the insured commits suicide within the exclusionary period, the insurer owes ONLY a return of premiums.
If the insured kills themself AFTER the suicide period, full benefits will be paid. Again, keep in mind that suicide is never an accident, so if this (again, for some bizarre reason) is eventually termed "suicide by cop" by the coroner, the base policy would be paid but the accidental death portion would not if still within the suicide exclusion.
I see how the posters in this thread "feel badly" for this kid, but policy language will rule the day.
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InsTeacher
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| Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Ins teacher, you still haven't weighed in with your 'opinion' (only)...accidental death or not? (assuming no felony wording in the endor.nor ruled suicide by cop)
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"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr. |
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Lori
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| Posted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:41 am Post subject: |
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Ok, sorry it took me a while to respond. You wanted my personal opinion? Here it is.
When a typical person thinks of the term "accidental death," they tend to think in terms like car wrecks, hobby-associated death, stuff like that. I don't think that if you asked 1000 people their definition of accidental death that ONE of them would say "a person who pulled a gun on the cops and got shot and killed."
Insurance policies of this nature have never intended to take on risk of this sort; they tend to think in terms of the average person as well. This is why they ask you questions about your lifestyle- occupation, avocations, etc. Consider this, if you were the underwriter and you had any inkling that your insured could even possibly get into the kind of situation that caused this person's death, would you issue the policy? 
I don't believe that this is an accidental death, and while I absolutely feel horribly for the OP, I can't envision this being considered under the terms of issuance even though it's quite possible that coverage will apply. Since we haven't heard from the original poster to get our questions answered, I guess we'll never know...
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InsTeacher
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