This is a private policy.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:20 pm   Post subject: This is a private policy.  

This is a private policy. We are not in contact with the former wife and her son does not know he is the beneficary this policy. We are not sure how to approach them. We paid for the funeral but could use the money to pay for dad's medical expenses and mortgage or give the money to his elderly mom. He had no will. Thank you very much for your help.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:34 pm   Post subject:   

what is the question here? is it who would get paid in this situation? because if the son is the benificary then it is for the son and no one else by the agreeing contract

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 9:43 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
We are not in contact with the former wife and her son does not know he is the beneficiary this policy.


That's a rather odd characterization?



...the former wife and her son...



Would the person who died perhaps be her son's FATHER?



Quote:
We are not sure how to approach them.


A phone call may work.



Quote:
We paid for the funeral but could use the money to pay for dad's medical expenses and mortgage or give the money to his elderly mom.


Well, that's not the way life insurance contracts work.



Her son's FATHER wanted him to have the life insurance death benefit.



Quote:
He had no will.




That's good for her son because if her son's FATHER didn't have a surviving spouse or other children her son will get the house too!



Now if her son is NOT his son and just a former step-son by marriage then it's a different circumstance.



So my question is.....



Is her son his son or is her son just her son and not his son and regardless whose son the son is the life insurance death benefit is HIS money.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:01 am   Post subject:   

Who's on first?



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:04 am   Post subject:   

(why don't I have the "quick message" display under my name?)



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:52 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
(why don't I have the "quick message" display under my name?)
you do...you do understand that is for others to send you a quick message right?



Gary I think it's the deceased step son.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 1:49 pm   Post subject:   

Grace is the daughter of the man who passed away (see first post, "use the money for dad's medical..."). I'm thinking that her dad was married to someone else before Grace's mom. Therefore, the son (beneficiary) of the former wife is actually Grace's step brother.



Grace "found" the insurance policy when her dad passed and then discovered that the beneficiary was never changed from the son (step brother).



This is a perfect example of why, especially when there are divorces, remarriages, step children, etc., that someone asks the difficult questions about previous life insurance policies. I have had two clients myself in this same position. One second wife, one second husband; both found out that the beneficiary was never changed after the second marriage. Well, didn't find out until their spouse passed away.



With one of them, I delivered a $100,000.00 to a woman who had been divorced from her husband for over 20 years. The present (second) wife got a $10,000.00 check from her husbands work.







Quote:
you do...you do understand that is for others to send you a quick message right?




Yes. I just wanted to make sure it was under mine (figured it could be displayed but disabled)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:47 am   Post subject:   

Thanks LifeGood.



I found the second post after I replied to this post which gave better clarity as to who was who.



For the step-father to name his step-son his life insurance beneficiary from a previous marriage 20 years ago indicates to me that he must have had a very good loving relationship with this person.



He didn't even name his wife at that time his beneficiary!



He named her son!!!



Then keeps the policy in-force and pays premiums for 20 years.



That's very compelling evidence this man wanted his step-son to have his life insurance benefit.



People purposefully EXCLUDE certain family members from their Estate Plans and Life Insurance and Annuities ALL THE TIME.



Original Poster (Grace) the man's biological daughter must think in her mind that she or some other "real" family member should get this money since the step-son isn't even really related.



Well, go ahead, go in front of a probate court judge and claim Pops (the insured) "forgot" to change his beneficairy designation on his life insurance policy to ME.



THAT will never prevail.



Now if Grace can prove, FRAUD, DURESS, UNDUE INFLUENCE, or MENTAL INCOMPETENCE at the time the designation was made, then maybe.



Of course then the proceeds just become part of the deceased person's probate estate and the money goes to all his creditors and the lawyers FIRST before distributed to any other "real" family members.



By the way, I'm not being harsh or unsympathetic, but, I've paid enough death claims to know first hand.....



People change when people die.



Question I do have a question though. Question



Is Grace this guys biological daughter from BEFORE or AFTER the marriage to step-son's mother?



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 10:53 am   Post subject:   

Good question Gary...Grace also was Dad in contact with this step son thru the years? I realize it's been 20 years but did he stay in touch? Was he at the funeral? Again were you (and any other nature children) born before or after this young man was his stepson?



Did your father have any other life policys? If so was mom named beneficary in them? Were he and your mother still married when he passed away?



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 11:03 pm   Post subject:   

Lori, another point I want to make that I think has been missed or not understood on these type threads is that the insurance company will ONLY pay the death benefit to the named beneficiary.



If the designation is being contested a Probate Court judge will make the final decision.



You can't send a letter to the insurance and say, "Gee whiz I don't think Pops wanted step-son as beneficiary anymore because I'm his real daughter and of course he would have wanted me to have the money."



Then the insurance company has a meeting in the claims department and says, "Yeah we agree, Pops probably did want you to have the money."



Then send you the check.



It simply doesn't work that way.



Additionally, if one is successful in having the judge throw out the beneficary designation that doesn't mean they get the money. The money simply becomes part of the total probate estate and would then be distributed as per the person's Last Will & Testament or if they didn't have a will according to state law.



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:15 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori, another point I want to make that I think has been missed or not understood on these type threads is that the insurance company will ONLY pay the death benefit to the named beneficiary.


Don't forget Gary our first discussion about this...ALL policys and ALL states do NOT...however I'm sure the vast majority do... Wink


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:42 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori, another point I want to make that I think has been missed or not understood on these type threads is that the insurance company will ONLY pay the death benefit to the named beneficiary.



If the designation is being contested a Probate Court judge will make the final decision.




Absolutely right Gary, if the step son has been named as the beneficiary of the policy, the insurance company will forward the benefits to him only. However, this can always be contested. and the current family may stand a fair in getting a judgement in their favor under such circumstances.



It might have had happened that your father was responsible for child support, and was required to maintain the policy on his son's name.



However, since the deceased hasn't had any will, you're required to wait for the probate court's judgement.



I'd like to suggest that you should try to put an advertisement in the news paper in order to find out
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 11:55 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
It might have had happened that your father was responsible for child support, and was required to maintain the policy on his son's name
'step son' remember, unless he legally adopted him, likihood of child support is small... Wink


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 2:24 pm   Post subject:   

Not to burst Grace's bubble but...if the son is the beneficiary, there probably isn't much anyone can do to get the money. Now...there is a possibility that a judge would tell the ex and the step that they should help with the cost of the funeral, etc...but to actually turn the proceeds of the policy to someone else...



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:50 pm   Post subject:   

Gary wrote:

Quote:
Lori, another point I want to make that I think has been missed or not understood on these type threads is that the insurance company will ONLY pay the death benefit to the named beneficiary.




Then Lori wrote:

Quote:
Don't forget Gary our first discussion about this...ALL policys and ALL states do NOT...however I'm sure the vast majority do...




Lori, I'm sorry, but you are still hung up on that Missouri Statute below that revokes a former spouses beneficiary designation because of marriage dissolution or annulment.



That statute doesn't say who get's the money. And the insurance company doesn't make the decision either. The proceeds would get tied up in probate court.



You make it sound as if someone can easily contest a life insurance policy beneficiary designation. Or they can somehow pursuade the insurance company to pay someone other than the named beneficiary and nothing could be further from the truth.



If the benefit is NOT paid to the person named in the contract or if it's successfully challanged WHO then gets paid? The life insurance money gets paid to probate court.



Please explain to me who you think gets paid if the former spouse's beneficairy designation is revoked under the Missouri statute below?



Who gets the money?

Who makes the decision?





LINK

Quote:
Missouri Revised Statutes

Chapter 461

Nonprobate Transfers Law

Section 461.051



August 28, 2007



Marriage dissolution or annulment--revocation of transfer to former spouse or relative of spouse, exception--remarriage to spouse, nullification of annulment, effect, relative of the owner's spouse, defined.

461.051. 1. If, after an owner makes a beneficiary designation, the owner's marriage is dissolved or annulled, any provision of the beneficiary designation in favor of the owner's former spouse or a relative of the owner's former spouse is revoked on the date the marriage is dissolved or annulled, whether or not the beneficiary designation refers to marital status. The beneficiary designation shall be given effect as if the former spouse or relative of the former spouse had disclaimed the revoked provision.



2. Subsection 1 of this section does not apply to a provision of a beneficiary designation that has been made irrevocable, or revocable only with the spouse's consent, or that is made after the marriage was dissolved, or that expressly states that marriage dissolution shall not affect the designation of a spouse or relative of a spouse as beneficiary.



3. Any provision of a beneficiary designation revoked solely by this section is revived by the owner's remarriage to the former spouse or by a nullification of the marriage dissolution or annulment.



4. In this section, "a relative of the owner's former spouse" means an individual who is related to the owner's former spouse by blood, adoption or affinity and who, after the divorce or annulment, is not related to the owner by blood, adoption or affinity.


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