soon to be ex-wife admitted she forged my name on a policy

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:02 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
As I approached her with this question she(to my surprise) admitted it(wish i had this on tape) but I was unable to get the name of the company who the policy was insured through.
WHAT? That's a little creepy...what was her reason behind this? If the divorce hasn't been settled I'd certainly have my attorney ask her attorney about this....start by calling your agent for your cars/house/health whatever you can think of...do you still have access to any paper work? like her check book etc? can you get into that account and look for a check...If all else fails certainly make it known to everyone, and I'd tell her that she either produces this policy or you are going to the police who will force her to produce it and she will be charge with forgery and insurance fraud, and likely a few other crimes....let us know, this is quite interesting what her motives must be... Confused


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:59 am   Post subject:   

I'd say the wife is mathematically challenged.



Source LINK.



Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance would at MOST provide about $13,000 in coverage for a $700 annual premium for a male age 50.



Not nearly enough money to even bother entertaining the thought of sending hubby to the great beyond.







One other wrinkle is they don't pay the full death benefit until the beginning of the 3rd year. If you die in the first two years the insurance company simply refunds the premium paid.





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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:34 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance would at MOST provide about $13,000 in coverage for a $700 annual premium for a male age 50.
Gary, admittedly I'm 'life ins challenged" but are you saying that all she can buy is 13k without a medical exam? If so atleast in the mighty state of MO I can and have bought up to 50k without ANY medical exams..And think I can purchase up to 100k without...so this might be a state thing...and as far as dying in the first two years, I've looked and NONE of my life policys say that...in fact they specifically say they pay the whole thing after that policy goes into effect. Confused


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:47 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Gary, admittedly I'm 'life ins challenged" but are you saying that all she can buy is 13k without a medical exam?


No.



Depending on the company you may be able to get $50,000 to even perhaps $100,000 WITHOUT a paramed exam, blood & urine. But you'll pay about double in premium for that contract and you would still have to answer some medical questions.



Quote:
If so at least in the mighty state of MO I can and have bought up to 50k without ANY medical exams


Fine.



But non-medical is still underwritten, "some" health questions are still asked and the company will still check the MIB records and DMV records, usually.



Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance DOES NOT ask any questions and has the worst premium to benefit ratio of any life insurance contract.



Quote:
and as far as dying in the first two years, I've looked and NONE of my life policy's say that...in fact they specifically say they pay the whole thing after that policy goes into effect.




Well, that's normal, except for suicide within the first two years. But I'm quite certain your policies aren't Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance.



Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance DOES NOT pay the death benefit for two years, except for an accident.



I'm not quite sure what your point is?

I believe you've lumped ALL life insurance contracts into one (1) monolithic contract.



But my point is.... OP can rest assured the wife can't buy enough Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance. to make it worth it ($$$) to have him disappear.







Bankrupt AIG claims a male age 40 could get $250,000 of coverage for less than $15 per month.



Now look at the premium vs benefit for the Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance. for a male age 50.



$700 per year for $12,760 worth of life insurance is an inordinate annual cost per thousand premium.



In fact, it's $54.86.



Relating that to bankrupt AIG's $250,000 policy would require an annual premium of $13,715 dollars to be able to issue a $250,000 policy under the same terms and conditions as the Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance.



Razz Hey!!! Maybe AIG should launch a new advertizing campaign...A male age 40 COULD get $250,000 of coverage for ONLY $13,715 per year. Shocked


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 6:29 am   Post subject:   

Why don't you try asking that 'mutual friend' of yours in case he/she can find out the name of the insurance company. Keeping others (friends, family members) informed is a good idea. There are high chances that the police won't take up your case if your divorce is not settled yet since they may believe that your to be ex-wife did not have any "intention to deceive". So get in touch with your attorney as soon as possible.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 10:47 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
I'm not quite sure what your point is?

I believe you've lumped ALL life insurance contracts into one (1) monolithic contract.


I didn't understand where the Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance came from since we didn't have the name of the company....I thought you were suggesting that she couldn't get any life ins over the 13k...



The policys I have that I know you can get for up to 100k (called the agent and asked) are from a reputable multiline company (that I used to work for actually)...they of course have medical questions but no exam...if she's gonna forge his name, i'm sure lying about the medical questions is no leap... Wink anyway the premium for a 30yr old non-smoking male is in the 75 a month range...



Also re: the suicide exclusion at least in this state...the company has to PROVE that the policy was purchased for the sole reason of commiting suicide...within the first few years....which depending on the circumstances could be hard or easy to prove...a guy with NO life ins, that buys a ton then does himself in is an easy denial...a guy that has carried life ins most of his life, and adjusts it from time to time, would be a hard one to prove....



Again my only point was I thought you were suggesting that all that she could get was 13k without paying a butt load of premium without a med exam....might be with Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance, I know nothing about them at all and sounds like I don't want to... Wink


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:26 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Also re: the suicide exclusion at least in this state...the company has to PROVE that the policy was purchased for the sole reason of committing suicide...within the first few years....which depending on the circumstances could be hard or easy to prove...a guy with NO life ins, that buys a ton then does himself in is an easy denial...a guy that has carried life ins most of his life, and adjusts it from time to time, would be a hard one to prove....


Lori, the insurance company DOES NOT have to PROVE suicide. The medical examiner in the county where the suspicious death occurred will determine whether the death was natural causes (illness), accident, suicide or homicide.



If you buy a new policy, regardless of how long one has previously owned life insurance, the two year suicide clause period starts anew.



Read the suicide clause in your policy. It states something to the effect that if the insured dies by suicide whether sane or insane during the first two policy years the insurance company's liability is limited to refunding the premium paid.



This is reverse lawyer speak.



Stated another way, the full entire death benefit is PAID in full if you commit suicide after two years.



For those of you contemplating suicide don't commit suicide two years to the day. Meaning if you buy a policy today 09-19-08 DON'T commit suicide on 09-19-10, wait until 09-20-10. Wink



I hate to be so brutally honest because I know it sounds like I'm being harsh but there are only four (4) causes of death; illness; accident; suicide or homicide.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:37 pm   Post subject:   

Missouri, the SHOW-ME state has a one (1) year suicide exclusion.



In Florida, The Sunshine State, it's two (2) years.



Source LINK.



Quote:
Suicide, effect on liability--refund of premiums, when.



376.620. 1. Any life insurance or certificate issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability of death as the result of suicide in the event the insured, while sane or insane, dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue of the policy or certificate. Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in the policy or certificate.



2. Any life insurance policy or certificate which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of the policy that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for coverage on such insured.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:39 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori, the insurance company DOES NOT have to PROVE suicide.
Gary that's not what I said...I said
Quote:
the company has to PROVE that the policy was purchased for the sole reason of commiting suicide


Quote:
Read the suicide clause in your policy. It states something to the effect that if the insured dies by suicide whether sane or insane during the first two policy years the insurance company's liability is limited to refunding the premium paid.
As I said the company has to prove the policy was purchased with the INTENT to commit suicide...I know how you hate to be proven wrong...(darn it so do I) ...straight from the policy:



Quote:
SUICIDE ENDORSEMENT:

The suicide provision is deleted and the following substutued therfor:



Suicide is no defense to payment of life insrance benefits nor is suicide while insane a defense to payment of accidental death benefits, if any, under this policy where the policy is issued to a Missouri citizen, unless we can show that the insured intended suicide when this policy or increased coverage was applied for.




(fyi this policy was purchased (May 1, 1998) could just be a mighty MO thing....I don't know, I do know that the company has to prove the intent in purchasing the policy was to commit suicide even if it happened a month after the policy was written...suicide even early in the policy is NOT an automatic denial anymore...atleast in this state...


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:10 am   Post subject:   

I love these debates! Very Happy



Lori, as you know, I'm from Missouri.



SHOW-ME the Missouri Law that says what you just described.



I linked to the Missouri Statute above dated, August 28th 2007.



Death by suicide is just as financially devastating to a family as death by any other cause and death by suicide is PAID by the life insurance company just like any other cause of death EXCEPT if one commits suicide within one year of policy issue in MO or two years of policy issue in FL the company's liabilty is limited to the refund of the premium paid.



I believe you are trying to say the life insurance company HAS TO PROVE the insured purchased the policy with the intent of committing suicide and if they can't they HAVE to pay the claim regardless.



That's not how it works.



Death by suicide is PAID after the expiration of the Suicide Exclusion Clause time frame is satisfied.



Edit: I should read more closely.



Just because one (1) individual company has waived their right to ENFORCE or INCLUDE a suicide exclusion clause in their contract does not mean that's the way it is.



No, Lori. I DON'T hate being proven wrong.



I want exactly correct information but your description of how death by suicide is paid is misleading and that's NOT how it's handled.



Your description would be and is a narrow EXCEPTION.



Pointing to one (1) company's contract who has waived their legal right to include a suicide clause exclusion in their contract is disingenuous to the life insurance buying general public.



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:37 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
SHOW-ME the Missouri Law that says what you just described.
Can't and don't feel like looking for it right now Gary don't even know if it exsists...all I did was copy what is in an actual life policy that I personally own issued by a company that is headquartered in MO....(sorry I had 65 people at my house for breakfast yesterday before a parade...that goes by my house, and I'm a tired, achin' old broad, might try and find it later 'if' it exsists Wink ) Would imagine though that it must exist because can't imagine any ins company willingly putting that in a policy... Wink Didn't make it up copied it straight from the policy...I remember many years back there being talk of that exclusion being removed...however I have never handled life policy claims...so didn't need to know much about it...

Quote:
I believe you are trying to say the life insurance company HAS TO PROVE the insured purchased the policy with the intent of committing suicide and if they can't they HAVE to pay the claim regardless
That is exactly what I'm saying...
Quote:
Death by suicide is PAID after the expiration of the Suicide Exclusion Clause time frame is satisfied.
Gary there isn't one...I just copied what was in the policy...an actual policy





Quote:
Just because one (1) individual company has waived their right to ENFORCE or INCLUDE a suicide exclusion clause in their contract does not mean that's the way it is.
That very well may be that only this company has this in their policy....although we both know it's a rarity...however I'm sure they did the math and found that they don't have many suicide claims in the first year or two of policy issuance....
Quote:
your description of how death by suicide is paid is misleading and that's NOT how it's handled
Gary it is with this particular company in this state apparently...
Quote:
Pointing to one (1) company's contract who has waived their legal right to include a suicide clause exclusion in their contract is disingenuous to the life insurance buying general public.
That's the only actual life policy I have in front of me Gary...I'll do some checking around here when I'm not so crabby...you know better than to think I would EVER provide misleading information about ANYTHING...as I said this is an actual contract for life insurance I'm looking at and this is what it said....so I guess anyone that thinks they might want to commit suicide might want to purchase their life ins from Shelter Ins...because they (for sure and atleast) must prove that is the reason for the purchase... Rolling Eyes







Quote:
...No, Lori. I DON'T hate being proven wrong.
That was a joke Gary.. Smile I know you don't...


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:39 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
The district court found that Missouri statute, Sec. 376.620, applied to this case and nullified the suicide exclusion. Mo.Rev.Stat. Sec. 376.620. Section 376.620 prohibits insurance companies from employing a suicide exclusion clause in policies issued to Missouri citizens


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:13 am   Post subject:   

For the sake of argument and not to be argumentive.



For the thrill of combat and not to be combative.



For an Internet Thread War!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







Okay, Lori, I've just finished sandpapering my eyeballs and I would like to know how on Earth the unsourced quote you quoted gets:



Quote:
Section 376.620 prohibits insurance companies from employing a suicide exclusion clause in policies issued to Missouri citizens.




OUT OF THIS!



Missouri Revised Statutes

Chapter 376

Life, Health and Accident Insurance

Section 376.620



August 28, 2007



Suicide, effect on liability--refund of premiums, when.



376.620. 1. Any life insurance or certificate issued or delivered in this state may exclude or restrict liability of death as the result of suicide in the event the insured, while sane or insane, dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of the issue of the policy or certificate. Any such exclusion or restriction shall be clearly stated in the policy or certificate.



2. Any life insurance policy or certificate which contains any exclusion or restriction under subsection 1 of this section shall also provide that in the event the insured dies as a result of suicide within one year from the date of issue of the policy that the insurer shall promptly refund all premiums paid for coverage on such insured.



You may want to read THIS recent current court decision filed February 27th 2008 and further you are offering information on section 376.620 of Missouri Insurance law from 2002 that has long since been revised.



This will be my 200th post!

Now what?





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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:43 pm   Post subject:   

no, war gary...i'm too old and tired to go to war about just about anything other than a personal/family assault and I know you're not that type... Wink (fortunately)....anyway I clicked too quick and didn't post the link it was a case, and could've been 02 or before...which could also explain my policy that was issued in 98 having that in it..



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:29 pm   Post subject:   

Smile Lori, once again we were both right and both wrong but now I believe we have flushed out the exactly correct information that's current for 2008.



These SHOW-ME state people just won't give up! Wink

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