Can I buy a life insurance on my ex-wife?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:07

She and I have been divorced almost 20 yrs but she seems to be on a crash course with fate. I'd like to have a policy in place where if the unthinkable eventually happens our son can benefit from it. I don't want her to know about it as it may give her an incentive to live.

Posted: 28 Jul 2009 06:43 Post Subject:

In order to have life insurance on someone else, you'd need to have insurable interest upon that person's life. Do you know what this 'insurable interest' means?

Posted: 29 Jul 2009 07:05 Post Subject:

I don't want her to know about it as it may give her an incentive to live.



Whoa!! Anyway, this ain't happening. It's not possible to take out a life insurance policy on others names without their knowledge. And, if you try something of that sort, remember that you would be performing scam.

How old is your son? I'm sure there are other ways to benefit him than profiting from his mother's death.

Posted: 06 Aug 2009 11:58 Post Subject:

I have a carrier that will insure someone without their knowledge. It is more expensive, but it is possible.

If you are interested feel free to e-mail me at brad @ brookfieldpartners.com

PS. for those agents that thought it wasn't possible...I own a brokerage firm, and have worked with agents to insure this risk.

Posted: 06 Aug 2009 03:16 Post Subject:

I have a carrier that will insure someone without their knowledge. It is more expensive, but it is possible.



Is that legal?

Posted: 06 Aug 2009 04:46 Post Subject:

Of course it's legal. The insurer requires an agreement in place for divorce. From that, it shows a form of insurable interest.

Also, no medical exam is needed to complete.

It is most similar to a one year term policy, except that the policy is underwritten annually. But it is doable, it is just more expensive over the long run.

Most agents think this is not right because your average carrier doesn't insure this risk, and that's what you learn when you start in the business.....doesn't mean it's not possible.

If you know someone that may be a fit, let me know. I own a brokerage general agency, and we work with insurance agents. We work a lot with specialized risks, and this is one of them. In my opinion it is better off getting a fully underwritten contract, but it is not neccessary. Some cases you can't, and this may be one of them.

brookfieldpartners.com

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 04:49 Post Subject:

That's interesting. I worked along side some very "creative" agents before. Never came across this though.

What about a situation where a guy wants to leave money to his mistress? I've been told that the wife will always end up with the money. It sounds like your policy could work for that too. No?

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 04:58 Post Subject:

Hi brook field partners..would you list or explain some of the specialized risks that you've mentioned above?
Pinkfloydfan

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 05:12 Post Subject:

I worked along side some very "creative" agents before.



Creative??? In what sense? Steven

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 07:12 Post Subject:

I have a carrier that will insure someone without their knowledge. It is more expensive, but it is possible.


OMG...totally that's illegal!

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 11:23 Post Subject:

I've been told that the wife will always end up with the money. It sounds like your policy could work for that too. No?

That's certainly not true, if you named the mistress as the beneficary, the poor wife can't do a thing about it..

OMG...totally that's illegal!

Choco, what exactly are you basing that knowledge on? He's explained to you that it's not, and I doubt he would post it for the world wide web to read if he thought he could get busted for it.

Posted: 07 Aug 2009 01:55 Post Subject:

I don't know about the legalities. However, since the wife isn't signing anything, it has to be close to a guaranteed issue policy. This is because the insurance company won't be able to get any medical information to find out about her health. This will make the policy extremely expensive and a really bad financial move unless the spouse is dying.

Posted: 09 Aug 2009 01:30 Post Subject: insurance

OMG!!...I read the entire thread. This ALMOST seems like the OP wants to do things 'under the table', so to speak. Of course, you're able to insure anyone you please....but, why an EX? I know you're concerned about your son,so...why not put your son on a Life Insurance policy, instead of your EX? Seems to me (personal opionion, of course,..) that you STILL want to be 'accountable' for your EX. ..still want to 'provide' for her, etc.

Posted: 10 Aug 2009 12:50 Post Subject:

SDCharger, you are not able to insure anyone you please. There must be an insurable interest between the owner and the insured.

Posted: 10 Aug 2009 10:03 Post Subject:

That's certainly not true, if you named the mistress as the beneficary, the poor wife can't do a thing about it..



Maybe it's just here in California, but more than one 20+ year agent has spoken about it happening here.

I really don't know though.

Posted: 11 Aug 2009 09:54 Post Subject: Life insurance

There must be an insurable interest between the owner and the insured.

"Insurable interest?"....do you mean the 'relationship' between you nad the person you want to insure?! For example: child, wife, relative, etc.? Or....am I 'way off base' with this?

Posted: 11 Aug 2009 11:30 Post Subject:

You are not off base. It's just that "Insurable Interest" is more of a financial relationship than a relationship.

One always has an insurable interest in their own life. Usually, non-corporate policies are written with the owner and the insured being the same person so insurable interest isn't an issue.

I can't buy insurance on you because your death would have no financial impact on me. If we were business partners, I could. If I was going to raise your son if you died, I could buy a policy on you.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 04:26 Post Subject:

I'm afraid this whole thread is so ludicrous it's impossible to read with a straight face. I guess its time to find out which carriers are issuing life insurance policies without informing the insured. Does anyone want to make any bets on whether brad@brookfield partners will tell me who he's submitting these cases to?

Yes, life insurance polices are issued all the time without the insured's knowledge. THIS IS ILLEGAL and agents have had their licenses permanently revoked for doing so.

In the United States, many of the constraints regarding Insurable Interest were relaxed (if not done away with completely) in around 1994. This happened because members of the Gay community fought to name their partners as beneficiaries and the insurance companies were "legally inclined" to allow it. Afterwhich, most of the insurable interest requirements were lifted. Granted, there are still areas, insuring minors, estate planning, gifting, etc., in which an element of insurable interest must exist but, I'm afraid this is mostly on a case-by-case basis.

I'll send Brad a message and see what happens.

Mark

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 04:52 Post Subject:

Re: Posts made to ampminsure.com on


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: 06 Aug 2009 11:58

"I have a carrier that will insure someone without their knowledge. It is more expensive, but it is possible.

If you are interested feel free to e-mail me at brad @ brookfieldpartners.com

PS. for those agents that thought it wasn't possible...I own a brokerage firm, and have worked with agents to insure this risk.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted: 06 Aug 2009 16:46

Of course it's legal. The insurer requires an agreement in place for divorce. From that, it shows a form of insurable interest.

Also, no medical exam is needed to complete.

It is most similar to a one year term policy, except that the policy is underwritten annually. But it is doable, it is just more expensive over the long run.

Most agents think this is not right because your average carrier doesn't insure this risk, and that's what you learn when you start in the business.....doesn't mean it's not possible.

If you know someone that may be a fit, let me know. I own a brokerage general agency, and we work with insurance agents. We work a lot with specialized risks, and this is one of them. In my opinion it is better off getting a fully underwritten contract, but it is not neccessary. Some cases you can't, and this may be one of them.


Hello Brad,

Please forward the name of the insurance carrier(s) you were referring to in the above posts. I would like to ask them a few questions regarding their life insurance policy issue requirements.

I look forward to your reply.

Mark J Colbert
Life Insurance Faud Investigations
www.markcolbert.com

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 05:14 Post Subject:

InsuranceInvestigator, I don't have the expertise necessary to know if your quote is correct.

Yes, life insurance polices are issued all the time without the insured's knowledge. THIS IS ILLEGAL




This certainly seems to me like something that would be handled on a state to state basis. We obviously have the exception for kiddie policies.
However, based upon the link below, and assuming no changes in the law since 2004, it appears to be legal in the state of NY, but only if the insured is the spouse of the owner.

http://www.ins.state.ny.us/ogco2004/rg040319.htm

Assuming that is the case in NY, I would be very surprised if at least one state doesn't allow it even if the people aren't married provided that there is insurable interest.


I look forward to your feedback.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 05:16 Post Subject:

By the way, regardless of whether it is allowed, it seems awfully stupid unless their is a plan for the insured to die pretty quickly. The policy would have to be extremely expensive since there is no way to properly underwrite it.

Personally, I can't name a single carrier that will write a policy without the insured signing. This doesn't mean that they don't exist. I simply don't know.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 05:20 Post Subject:

I have no issue telling you how it is done.

Lloyd's of London is the insurance carrier.

For those that are interested you can check out Petersen's International, they are the coverholder in Valencia, CA.

(Promotional link removed as per TOU)

Click on "Life Programs"

I am no way saying this is the best way or the least expensive way to do it, but it is a solution.

Mark,

When you are done with your research, please post your results to the group on the legality.

Brad

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 05:49 Post Subject:

Petersen's should have been my guess. They are the company that I need to use for strange cases. Thanks. I guess that the question is what states allow this.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 05:50 Post Subject:

By the way for those reading this, they probably don't allow small policies and unlike other policies, the insurer can cancel the policy.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 06:36 Post Subject:

InsuranceExpert,

It is always a pleasure to hear from one of my "homies." Thanks for the feedback.

Let's review:

"She and I have been divorced almost 20 yrs but she seems to be on a crash course with fate. I'd like to have a policy in place where if the unthinkable eventually happens our son can benefit from it. I don't want her to know about it as it may give her an incentive to live."

First of all, they haven't been married in almost 20 years. Therefore, the insurance code you referred
to which governs the insurance activities in the state of New York, or any other state, simply cannot apply in this case. Even so,the intent in this post could be interpreted as almost malicious in nature. Of course, it could be argued that he is merely looking after his son. Therefore any forgery, falsification of documents, intent to deceive, fraud, or plain ol'"Bad Faith" should be defensible. I personally doubt it.

In fact, I will send a copy of this thread to my friends in the Investigations Division of the California State Department of Insurance and see where it goes from there. Who knows, I could be wrong and we should all run out and take life insurance policies out our former spouses.

Kiddie policies; I'm assuming you're referring to those issued by Gerber and others like them, are kind-of a no brainer. How the world could you make a three-year-old the owner of his/her own life insurance policy? Of course the parents should be allowed to take out a policy without the authorization of their infant. "Here Junior, put your tiny little footprint right here on this line."

Again, when the goal, if you will, is to take out insurance on the life of someone not related to you is malicious or fraudulent in nature, it simply cannot be legal in any state.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:00 Post Subject:

There aren't laws being broken here...there is an insurable interest with a former spouse.

Rates are high because of non-med underwriting, and no medical records. Underwriting is done annually, and the coverage is not the cheapest. But again, it is obtainable.

Insurable interest laws are to protect consumer and insurance carriers from having insurance purchased in which there is not an insurable interest.

Lloyd's and Petersen's are following the law with mandating that there be some documented form proving an insurable interest.

For those that disbelieve this possiblty, please forward your apologies after your research....thanks!! LOL

As I see so far, only InsuranceExpert can agree that this is possible.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:21 Post Subject:

InsInvestigator,

My comments had nothing to do with the original post. I was only responding to this part of your post.

Yes, life insurance polices are issued all the time without the insured's knowledge. THIS IS ILLEGAL



With doing some homework on this subject, I believe that we'll find out that this is legal in some states and illegal in others. We should be in agreement that it's legal in NY if the people are spouses (unless the law has changed).

It seems like a very safe assumption that in some states it must be legal or else Peterson's wouldn't be offering this policy.

None of my comments have anything to do with the original question or anything fraudulent. I'm simply asking the question, "In at least one state, are there circumstances in which it is legal to take out insurance without knowlege of an adult insured?" I'm pretty sure that the answer is "yes".

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:22 Post Subject:

P.S. It's nice to be in a coversation with people who won't have a problem admitting that they are wrong when/if that is the case.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:26 Post Subject:

RTFP

Before issuing an apology, let me clarify:

There aren't laws being broken here...there is an insurable interest with a former spouse.



They've been divorced almost 20 years, where's the insurable interest? If one exists because they share responsibility for a minor child, which is doubtful because they've been apart so long, the parent with custody will petition the court for the right to carry life insurance on the other parent - and a court will usually allow this.

The child, however, is probably more than 20 years old, and providing he/she isn't mentally or developmentally challenged, shouldn't require the income of both parents to survive..... legally speaking.

Therefore, we're back to one parent's goal to ascertain insurance on the life of another (whom he expects to die in a short time) without her knowledge or approval. This is a textbook example of malicious intent.

I have sent a message to Peterson's (giving them your name on the post) and await their response.

If I'm wrong, I'll apologize.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:31 Post Subject:

That's fine...no hard feelings...I was just kidding...I know people get on rants in raves in the forums of what is acceptable and not acceptable.

In regards to state statutes, I haven't run into any states where this is illegal, but there may be a couple. If something isn't legal in a state I am sure Lloyd's would let you know that it isn't approved in that respective state. They are a major insurer, and I am sure they don't want to lose anything.

I want people to make sure they research something before that start blasting it's legality, and to know that just because there company says one thing doesn't mean that it is the"be all end of all" of everything.

Brad

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 07:57 Post Subject:

InsuranceExpert,
I must agree with you....to a point.

For example; If a woman takes out life insurance on the man she is married to at the time, it is usually considered acceptable, no-harm-no-foul. Keeping the insurance in force after they've divorced, however, is whole 'nuther can of worms.

But, taking out life insurance on the life of a 20-year former spouse without her knowledge because you think something bad is going to happen to her (another term for death) is altogether wrong.

Mark

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 08:06 Post Subject:

I'm sure that it's done plenty of times in an illegal manner. I'm only saying that with the right set of facts, it is not necessarily illegal to buy insurance on somebody without their knowledge.

As for this former spouse situation, you are correct and nobody would underwrite the policy.

Posted: 18 Aug 2009 08:12 Post Subject:

In regards to state statutes, I haven't run into any states where this is illegal, but there may be a couple. If something isn't legal in a state I am sure Lloyd's would let you know that it isn't approved in that respective state. They are a major insurer, and I am sure they don't want to lose anything.



The Lloyd's policy can't be legal in the state of NY. This is because Lloyd's won't let someone buy coverage on their spouse without consent and the state of NY only allow non-consent insurance to be done with spouses (and young minors).

Posted: 19 Aug 2009 10:08 Post Subject:

InsuranceExpert,
I agree with you completely.
Mark

Posted: 20 Aug 2009 06:42 Post Subject: Yes You Can

LLoyds of London offers a 1 year term life policy on someone without their knowledge. You have to show a reason for the insurance, but the insured will never know. It is very expensive though

Posted: 20 Aug 2009 06:44 Post Subject: Yes You Can

link removed by mod..is the only place this can be done. I think that it is a one year term.

Posted: 20 Aug 2009 07:16 Post Subject:

One of the issues is that because it is one year term, it is always going to be contestible. The policy is not guaranteed issue. If the owner knows of a reason why the insured might die and doesn't disclose it, the claim will be contested.

Ex. The OP wants to buy a policy on his wife because he knows that she has a drug habit and she's been prostituting herself. He does not disclose this information on the application. She dies 9 months later when she gets stabbed in an alley. When the claim gets investigated if they find out that the owner knew of her issues, the claim won't be paid.

Posted: 20 Aug 2009 11:18 Post Subject:

Holy Hooker, Batman!! I completely missed that part of the post. Makes perfect sense though.

Posted: 21 Aug 2009 12:12 Post Subject:

Hi friends,

But, taking out life insurance on the life of a 20-year former spouse without her knowledge because you think something bad is going to happen to her (another term for death) is altogether wrong.



I was going through a website a couple of days back and it was mentioned that in order to get a policy on someone, you'd need to obtain his/her permission. Also it said that there has to be an insurable interest. Can someone really have an insurable interest on his ex-wife?

Posted: 21 Aug 2009 10:54 Post Subject:

Can someone really have an insurable interest on his ex-wife?

Sure he could if they have minor children and she contributes to their support.

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 02:46 Post Subject:

Can someone really have an insurable interest on his ex-wife?



Absolutely. Lori was correct in that; when children are involved, most courts will that each parent has an insurable interest on the other and will order that life insurance be purchased.

In my case, and in most of the cases I've seen, one parent usually ends up paying all the premiums (that was me), policy ownership is shared, and she was named as my beneficiary. 16 years later, the policy was allowed to lapse and she was on her own.

Posted: 04 Sep 2009 02:48 Post Subject: Her incentive to live...

You don't want her to know because it may give her an incentive to live? Geeze that's harsh. And to think, relationships like these begin with love...Like mentioned above she would have to know and there must be an insurable interest. If she helps the son financially then there may be an insurable interest there.

Posted: 17 Sep 2009 10:07 Post Subject:

It also happens the other way round at times. When we're in love we agree to pay for all the premiums, and then when we move on, we change the beneficiaries.

Posted: 21 Mar 2010 11:24 Post Subject: Life Insurance

Quote---"Whoa!! Anyway, this ain't happening. It's not possible to take out a life insurance policy on others names without their knowledge. And, if you try something of that sort, remember that you would be performing scam."


If that is true then why can big businesses like Walmart etc Take out huge life insurance policies on their employees without their knowledge? I agree that it is underhanded, but alot of big companies are doing it to benefit off of peoples death. And word has it that they don't even share it with the grieving families.

Posted: 24 Mar 2010 03:26 Post Subject:

If that is true then why can big businesses like Walmart etc Take out huge life insurance policies on their employees without their knowledge? I agree that it is underhanded, but alot of big companies are doing it to benefit off of peoples death. And word has it that they don't even share it with the grieving families.



Not really. This idea that companies buy life insurance on their employees for the purpose of profiting off their deaths is a myth. It's not being done in any sort of systematic or surreptitious way. There are laws that govern this.

Posted: 24 Mar 2010 04:10 Post Subject:

why can big businesses like Walmart etc Take out huge life insurance policies on their employees without their knowledge?



This is no longer possible in California. Non-exempt employees cannot be insured under COLI policies. And exempt employees must consent to be insured (under federal law) if a COLI policy is connected in any way with a nonqualified executive/employee benefit plan.

Posted: 04 Aug 2012 01:52 Post Subject: insurance on unknowing spouse

How would I find out if my husband has been issued life insurance without my knowledge? I already have over $350,000+ life insurance but my husband and I are in the process of going through a nasty separation and I don't trust him.

Posted: 06 Aug 2012 02:44 Post Subject:

How would I find out if my husband has been issued life insurance without my knowledge?


Other than asking him, you would not find out. What difference does it make to you if he has life insurance you don't know about? Are you jealous that he might be leaving more money to someone else when he dies? It's not really your concern.

But you can have your attorney subpoena his bank records. If he's been paying for life insurance, you'll find the evidence there. Personal accounts and business accounts -- check them all. Hidden accounts . . . well . . .

Or are you saying he used your money to buy his insurance? That could be a different matter. If he's been using your money, how did he have access to it? Through a joint bank account? If that's true, you already have access to those records and can look for yourself without a subpoena.

Posted: 01 Sep 2012 07:03 Post Subject: You are kidding...right?

Ok...this has to be a joke...why would you not tell her if your intentions were honorable...you don't think she would want her child to receive her death benefits? Divorced for twenty years...hmmmm..yep...your son is grown...

Never assume to do a good service for one person while being dishonest with another....the dishonesty cancels out the good deed...

You sound more like a Drew Peterson type to me...maybe a bum looking to cash in on someone elses misfortune so he can have a hoar in a vegas hotel...you bum...support your son...and his mother won't have to die so he can eat...

Make like a space dog and gravitate....out of here...

Was a "anotherconfusedwoman" but now pink and bashful

Posted: 01 Sep 2012 09:20 Post Subject:

.why would you not tell her if your intentions were honorable.


Honorable or not, you just don't seem to "get it" lady. There is no law or requirement that a husband or a wifes has to inform their spouse that they have purchased life insurance on his or her own life. It is a private matter, and it doesn't matter what a person's intentions are, as long as they are not otherwise unlawful.

Now if you want to be concerned about your spouse purchasing insurance on your life, that's a different matter entirely, and it requires your consent in most states.

Whatever the dynamics of the relationship between husbands and wives may be, you don't have to leave your life insurance proceeds to him, and he doesn't have to leave them to you. And the children can be excluded, too.

Posted: 02 Sep 2012 08:57 Post Subject: insurance is a scam

If truth be told...certain types of life insurance is as useless as those extended warranties you buy on carpet and appliances...you pay and pay..but when you need to use it, they find a loophole..

Example: "oh no, we can't pay that policy benefit, did you not read the really small print, on the page that was encrypted? It clearly states that the policy only pays if the deceased actually dies between the hours of 2 am and 5 am...during the 5th week of February...on Thursday only"

My brother in law sold insurance and as a newbie to it,,,even he did not realize how useless the policy he once sold us really was...

Having someone take out life insurance on you without informing you is creepy and should be illegal in this day of vanishing spouses, especially women....it is not only creepy, it is suspicious...

Let someone decide to take off without telling anyone and the person who took out a policy on them without consent may end up on tv, on the Nancy Grace show, being called a suspected person of interest...

I am planning on canceling my life insurance policy to ensure crooked hubs doesn't plan on an early retirement...since i am taking my half of his retirement now...he will have to work for another thirty years to catch up....life can be a hormonal b!$ch...but thats what happens when you seek to make your wallet fatter at someone elses expense...

I am also going to demand an irrevocable whatever or i will start divorce proceedings to ensure my continued support...i don't care what the "rules"are...the ones i make are for my marital contributions...if you as an insurance pusher, don't understand about marital contributions, you need to stop advising women completely..

Life is lovely...when you have honesty on your side...lol

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