Life insurance for HIV patients - Do such policies exist?

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu, 06/04/2009 - 19:13

What is the availability of life insurance for hiv patients? Are there any other Life Insurance companies that will insure people with HIV? Please advise.

Thank You

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 09:36 Post Subject:

Life insurance companies might offer life insurance for hiv patients but it would depend upon several factors. Normally they would be required to pay higher amount than standard life rates. However,

Are there any other Life Insurance companies that will insure people with HIV? Please advise.



What do you mean by any other insurance company? Have you been contacted by any insurer/agent for life policy?

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 11:48 Post Subject: No underwritten policies for hiv patients

No life insurance company will issue underwritten life insurance for hiv patients now. There may be companies that have guaranteed-issue policies for small amounts like $10,000, but they are graded (no death benefit if you die in the first two years) and are extremely expensive.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 12:26 Post Subject:

No life insurance company will issue an underwritten policy on someone who has HIV. There may be companies that have guaranteed-issue policies for small amounts like $10,000, but they are graded (no death benefit if you die in the first two years) and are extremely expensive.



He can actually probably get $50,000. The death benefit is a return of premium compounded at 5% with such life insurance for hiv patients (for the first 2 years).

"Expensive" is in the eye of the beholder. The policy is very expensive for someone who is healthy. For someone who expects to die within a few years, it's incredibly cheap.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 12:35 Post Subject:

He can actually probably get $50,000. The death benefit is a return of premium compounded at 5% with such life insurance for hiv patients (for the first 2 years).

"Expensive" is in the eye of the beholder. The policy is very expensive for someone who is healthy. For someone who expects to die within a few years, it's incredibly cheap.




Usually if you don't die between the beginning of year 3 and the end of year 6 on a graded policy, you'll lose that gamble. Die in year 1 or 2 and you only get your premium back plus some interest. Die in year 7 and you've already paid up your entire death benefit.

True story - we had a client who had a $25k graded death benefit policy who died last year......she died on the last day of the second year of the policy, so only the premium + interest was returned. If she had lived another 12 hours or so, the family would have gotten an extra ~$18,000.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 01:09 Post Subject:

I looked at these life insurance for hiv patients twice in the last year. Once was for a person who needed a heart transplant. Once for someone with a disease that I can't remember.

In both of these cases, it was going to take them living a dozen years or more to lose the gamble.

It sounds like you are looking at a very expensive graded death benefit policy. The policy that you are describing would be 3-4K for $25,000. Unless my memory is wrong, I recall 4K being the price for $50,000.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 01:14 Post Subject:

The premiums you're referring to may be based on age....I believe she was paying around $300/month for $25k of coverage (she had cancer). We didn't write the policy though, so I don't know all the specifics.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 01:25 Post Subject:

So, the bottom line for the original poster is that "yes" life insurance for hiv patients can be purchased, but it may or may not be at a price that makes it worthwhile.

For a young, relatively healthy person with HIV, it probably is too expensive. If the person isn't healthy, or has full blown AIDs, it probably does make sense.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 05:24 Post Subject: high premium, low benefits

Are there any other Life Insurance companies that will insure people with HIV?


Yes.

Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance
MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE

VERY HIGH premium, very LOW benefit.

With life insurance for hiv patients the insurance company can legally rob you by having you screw yourself. You need to die on the first day of the beginning of the third policy year OR die by accident the day after the policy is issued.

NO AGENT WILL CALL YOU.

You get to buy this all by yourself!

Simply "Google" Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 07:56 Post Subject:

Gary, tell us how you really feel.

I've looked into this a few times and it is a great deal for somebody who is dying. Like most products, life insurance for hiv patients isn't good or bad. It's appropriate or inappropriate based upon the situation.

Here's an example. Joe can get $50,000 of coverage for $5,000 a year. He has cancer and a realistic guess on his life expectancy is 18-36 months.

If he dies within 24 months, his family will get an after tax guaranteed return of 5%. That isn't bad.

If he lives 6 years, it works out to be a 15% compound return. If he dies between 2 and 6 years, it will be much higher.

These policies are a great deal for people who are actually dying, but not good for people who aren't dying, but are simply unhealthy.

Another way to put that is that it may not be a good policy for somebody with HIV, but the second that it turns into AIDs, it's time to buy.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 08:58 Post Subject:

Dear Insurance Expert,

Only an insurance agent would know what it was that you just wrote.

Please correct me if I have my wires crossed:

This means:

Here's an example. Joe can get $50,000 of coverage for $5,000 a year. He has cancer and a realistic guess on his life expectancy is 18-36 months.

If he dies within 24 months, his family will get an after tax guaranteed return of 5%. That isn't bad.


If he dies in 24 months the death benefit is $10,500, correct? To say he has $50,000 of coverage is not accurate.

How is this "life insurance"?

The death benefit is simply the return of premiums paid with interest. If he put the money in a fixed annuity paying a 10% premium bonus and 2% interest, at the end of two years the death benefit would be $11,444.40.

EVEN after taxes in a 28% tax bracket the beneficiary still clears $11,040.

Now I'm sorry....but when the death benefit of a fixed annuity EXCEEDS what a life insurance policy would provide even after taxes SOMETHING is wrong with the so called life insurance policy.

These policies aren't a good deal for anyone buying the policy. Unless you die by accident the day after the policy is issued OR die on the first day of the 3rd policy year. The longer you live, the worse these polices are and with many of them you can actually pay more in premium than the death benefit will be! :shock:

These polices are sold to desparate people who find themselves in a desparate situation.

Do the math...the insurance company has...they NEVER lose on these policies EVER.

Posted: 05 Jun 2009 10:03 Post Subject:

If he dies in 24 months the death benefit is $10,500, correct? To say he has $50,000 of coverage is not accurate.



First of all, your math is not correct. It would be $10,763. Secondly, Since he lived for 24 months, he would get $50,000.

Do the math...the insurance company has...they NEVER lose on these policies EVER.



Gary, I already did the math for you. If he lives for less than 2 years, it is a 5% return. If he lives for between 2 and 6 years, it is a return of greater than 15%.

Insurance companies lose money on these policies all of the time. It's no different than any other life insurance. They lose money on lots of policies. They just don't lose in the aggregate. How do they make money on these policies? They are purchased by both unhealthy people who aren't dying and by dying people. In general, they make money on their unhealthy people. They lose money on their dying people. If only dying people bought the policies, the premiums would have to be much higher.

Please go back to my example and tell me why this is such a bad idea for someone who is supposed to live no longer than 36 months? Barring a miracle, my client will end up with somewhere between a 5 and 40% return.

Posted: 06 Jun 2009 09:19 Post Subject:

Why would an insurance company write life insurance for hiv patients at all if the risk is so high?

Posted: 06 Jun 2009 01:52 Post Subject:

:P I sense a THREAD WAR brewing around life insurance for hiv patients over here!!! :wink:

For the General Public who read may this thread there isn't any right or wrong to Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE.

This is just insurance agent difference in opinion between myself and Insurance Expert.

First of all, your math is not correct. It would be $10,763. Secondly, Since he lived for 24 months, he would get $50,000.


Okay, fine, almost, but let's be exactly correct.
Correct me if I'm wrong...in your $5,000 premium per year, $50,000 Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE example.

If the person dies within the first two years the death benefit is limited to the return of premium PLUS 5% interest compounded annually.
Correct?

If they should beat the odds and be so fortunate as to die in the 25th month, the beginning of the third policy year they won, they beat the odds and the company pays out $50,000.
Correct?

OR if the person dies by accident the company pays the $50,000 from day one.
Correct?

Side bar:

Why would an insurance company write a policy at all where the risk is so high?


Math.

If a person is buying an individual life insurance policy WITHOUT submitting evidence of insurability, that very fact tells them you are HIGH RISK. For the very highest risk the company is simply giving you your money back plus interest. You could have actually had more money for your beneficiary during the first two years by buying a Fixed Annuity, 10% premium bonus contract, at MINIMUM 2% interest.

Now if you make it two years you're NOT that sick yet still uninsurable and will probably make it 10 years at which point your beneficiary is simply getting a return of the premium paid.

Now beyond 10 years, these Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE policies, become a black hole.

You can actually pay more in premium than the death benefit. That NEVER happens with fully medically underwritten life insurance unless you attempt to keep term insurance past about age 80 which NEVER happens because it is simply cost prohibitive.

Let me tell you a true story and I'll name names.

My Mom bought a garbage Colonial Penn Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE policy because Ed McMahon was the celebrity spokes person.

Premium was about $20 per month ($240 per year) for a $2,500 death benefit. She paid on that policy for 15 years.

15 years of premium times $240 per year equals $3,600 paid in premium and at the time of her death the death benefit BECAUSE of her own cash in the policy plus minimum interest was about $2,700.

That's $900 hundred dollars less in death benefit than the premium paid.

That's NOT life insurance.
That's a mathematical game disguised as life insurance.

:arrow: Allow me to quote myself... 8)
Guaranteed Acceptance Life Insurance MODIFIED BENEFIT WHOLE LIFE

This is a form of life insurance whereby the insurance company can legally rob you by having you screw yourself. You need to die on the first day of the beginning of the third policy year OR die by accident the day after the policy is issued.



Just like ALL millionaires in the USA need to die on December 31st 2010 to escape the massive 55% top Federal Estate Tax rate that will be imposed on January 1st 2011.

:D Oh,... and make sure the wife croaks too...it's real bad tax wise if she makes it past December 31st 2010! :shock:

....and now that I'm in FULL rant mode does anyone understand that 50% of the population of the USA supports 100% of the government AND the "other" 50% of the population...

Posted: 06 Jun 2009 08:18 Post Subject:

Gary, sorry, but I think once again, this isn't going to be an issue to have a thread war. I think that we probably agree on this issue. I believe that guaranteed issue life insurance is usually a pretty bad deal.

It's just that about once a year, I come across a case in which it makes sense.

Posted: 07 Jun 2009 12:04 Post Subject:

Gary, sorry, but I think once again, this isn't going to be an issue to have a thread war.


:P I haven't had a good thread war in soooooooo long I'm fearful my thread war skills may be eroding! :wink: 8)

I simply always try to separate sales talk from financial facts.

Now there's nothing wrong with sales talk as long as the financial facts are congruent with the sales talk.

Posted: 08 Jun 2009 10:34 Post Subject:

Hello Insurance Expert, if someone is young but HIV positive, would he then qualify for life insurance at standard rate?

Posted: 08 Jun 2009 02:14 Post Subject:

Hello Insurance Expert, if someone is young but HIV positive, would he then qualify for life insurance at standard rate?




No. The standard life expectancy for a male is roughly age 78. The standard life expectancy of someone with HIV, even if young, is significantly lower (1-5 years?) HIV is an automatic decline with all insurance carriers on underwritten policies.

Posted: 29 Jun 2009 06:45 Post Subject: Yes an HIV person can purchase Life Insurance

I am a registered financial planner, who was asked to set up a life insurance policy for someone with HIV. It took a long time with my team doing research to find a qualified insurance company who accepts HIV prospects.

We did it! If you would like assistance in getting life insurance for someone with HIV my team and I would love to help.

Jeran (Jer-in)
jjeran10[at]gmail.com


E-mail id deactivated for your safety reason

Posted: 29 Jun 2009 06:48 Post Subject:

I am a registered financial planner, who was asked to set up a life insurance policy for someone with HIV. It took a long time with my team doing research to find a qualified insurance company who accepts HIV prospects.

We did it! If you would like assistance in getting life insurance for someone with HIV my team and I would love to help.

Jeran (Jer-in)
jjeran10[at]gmail.com




Is this a graded benefit plan? There is no way an underwritten life insurance policy would be issued on someone with HIV.[at]

Posted: 30 Jun 2009 01:54 Post Subject:

No. The standard life expectancy for a male is roughly age 78. The standard life expectancy of someone with HIV, even if young, is significantly lower (1-5 years?) HIV is an automatic decline with all insurance carriers on underwritten policies.



Don't confuse being HIV + with having AIDS. The life expectancy for a young person who is HIV+ is actually more than 20 years. In the 90's, the life expectancy for someone with AIDS was less than 5 years. I assume that it is longer now, but I don't know.

Posted: 30 Jun 2009 02:15 Post Subject:


Don't confuse being HIV + with having AIDS. The life expectancy for a young person who is HIV+ is actually more than 20 years. In the 90's, the life expectancy for someone with AIDS was less than 5 years. I assume that it is longer now, but I don't know.



Same principle....the life expectancy is cut dramatically short and the HIV could progress to AIDS at any time. Either way, there's not going to be any underwritten coverage available.

Posted: 30 Jun 2009 10:26 Post Subject:

I was commenting strictly about life expectancy. To the best of my knowledge, no company using full underwriting will insure someone with HIV.

Posted: 08 Jul 2009 07:39 Post Subject: HIV Thread

I hear all the hoopla about whether guaranteed life is this or that. All I know is that my younger brother who is 25 is not particularly savvy about this kind of stuff and was recently diagnosed with HIV. I was referred by a close friend who told me about an insurance agent and that she might be able to help. Long and short of it is that he has 10000 whole life policy whereas if he dies in the 1st 2 yrs all the premium are refunded plus 10% and 20% on top in the 2nd year after that he has the full death benefit of the policy. In addition he has 20000 in accidental and it doubles or quadruples depending on the nature of the accident and thats good from day 1. So help me understand, if he dies say in 4 years, knowing that funerals are expensive as hell (trust me I know from experience), where am I or my family supposed to come up with 7-12 thousand dollars on the spot. As long as the money paid in is refunded with way more interest than you would get from sticking it in a bank and then provided you take you meds and follow doctors orders there should be no reason why you shouldnt live two years to receive the full death benefit. Everyone saying save and invest is just plain silly in this economy, just put something in place, would you have the same argument about car insurance or homeowner's insurance? Is you life worth more of a risk than material things? Oh and BTW my brother's coverage costs him less than 60 dollars a month so its not a fortune like previously said...This argument is silly IMHO! Stop scaring folks, HIV is enough to deal with!

Posted: 09 Jul 2009 02:10 Post Subject:

Insurance novice, the issue isn't whether he will live for 2 years. If he had AIDS instead of just being HIV+, I would would say buy the coverage.

However, a 25 year old who is HIV+ and takes care of himself can very possibly live another 25 years. If he were to invest this $60/month at 0% interest, it would equal $18,000 instead of $10,000. At 5%, it would equal $35,000. At 10%, it would equal $74,000.

If we just look at the 5% figure, he just needs to live 11 years to have more money for a funeral than he would have by having the life insurance.

The real financial problem in your case, and sorry to be so blunt, is that nobody in your family has figured out how to earn a decent amount of money. Paying for a loved one's funeral should not be a financial issue.

$60/month is a fortune for $10,000 of coverage for a 25 year old.

Posted: 09 Jul 2009 04:30 Post Subject:

To put that into perspective, a healthy 25-year-old can get $1,000,000 of coverage guaranteed for 30 years for that same $60/month. That's quite a bit more than $10,000....

Posted: 10 Jul 2009 01:35 Post Subject:

i think yes they will but will bump up the premium...

if you are doing a job, best thing is to take your company insurance... and you will end up paying less premium as most of company insurance enroll you without medical tests

Hope this helps

Posted: 10 Jul 2009 02:13 Post Subject:


i think yes they will but will bump up the premium...



You are thinking wrong.....please don't give out information that is inaccurate. Yes, if there are employer benefits available without underwriting it would be a great deal for him. If not, there isn't a company in the world that will approve an underwritten policy on someone diagnosed with HIV.

Posted: 22 Jul 2009 10:37 Post Subject: HIV

So where does that put a person such as myself who is HIV + and who because of some mutant gene, luckily is healthy and undetectable without the use of meds? I want life insurance, but because of the HIV stigma, even thou I am considered non -reactive/progressive am denied such coverage even thou I am very healthy?

Posted: 22 Jul 2009 10:47 Post Subject:

So where does that put a person such as myself who is HIV + and who because of some mutant gene, luckily is healthy and undetectable without the use of meds? I want life insurance, but because of the HIV stigma, even thou I am considered non -reactive/progressive am denied such coverage even thou I am very healthy?



HIV+ is not healthy from an insurance company's standpoint even though you may feel healthy.

Posted: 23 Jul 2009 10:53 Post Subject:

So where does that put a person such as myself who is HIV + and who because of some mutant gene, luckily is healthy and undetectable without the use of meds? I want life insurance, but because of the HIV stigma, even thou I am considered non -reactive/progressive am denied such coverage even thou I am very healthy?



An insurance company doesn't care about "health". They care about life expectancy. You are HIV positive. People who are HIV positive have a lower life expectancy.

Life insurance should be purchased before one has things that compromise their life expectancy... before they get fat, before they start smoking, before they get cancer, before they get HIV, before they get high blood pressure, before they have an undiagnosed stomache issue, etc.


When are these things going to happen? We don’t know. Life insurance is purchased with one’s health more than with their dollars. This means that one shouldn’t wait until they are married with a child to buy coverage. If coverage is needed in the future, it needs to be purchased today.

What can you do about insurance now that you are HIV+? Go tell all of your friends to purchase coverage before something happens that lowers their life expectancy.

Posted: 25 Jul 2009 12:41 Post Subject:

Hi Scot,

People who are HIV positive have a lower life expectancy.


Did you understand why Expert is stressing hard on life expectancy? Actually, you'd need to understand that a lower life expectancy signifies more risk for the insurance carrier. Insurance is meant to cover your unforeseen risks, so more the chances lesser the coverage options and higher the premiums.
Hope you got that!

Plasticmind

Posted: 28 Jul 2009 08:17 Post Subject:

And if he lives more than 24 months? How does that stack up against the annuity?

Posted: 19 Aug 2009 01:57 Post Subject:

I am learning many things over here. lots of knowlegde is there, thanks

Posted: 24 Aug 2009 11:56 Post Subject:

Another option for this individual would be to look at a Second to die policy. Some insurance companies will allow a policy to be written on an otherwise uninsurable person if the policy pays out on the death of the second individual and there is another healthy indivdual on the policy. These policies can sometimes work if the parents are still alive in good enough health to be insured and have a life expetancy less than the unhealthy individual.

Posted: 29 Jul 2010 06:20 Post Subject: hiv

I really need some kind of insurance for my hiv. I need to know how and where I get insurance at? :lol: :P

Posted: 01 Aug 2010 02:02 Post Subject:

i really need some kind of insurance for my hiv.



Are you talking about medical or life insurance?

Medical insurance for a person HIV+ is a practical impossibility. Insurers almost uniformly list that as a decline in their published underwriting guidelines.

As for life insurance, there are a number of companies that offer "jet issue" policies that do not require medical underwriting (no blood or urine testing). But do not expect to obtain more than $50,000 in coverage from one insurer.

Because it is assumed that unhealthy persons are the most likely applicants, the rates are generally higher than those for healthy persons applying for more traditional policies.

Posted: 01 Aug 2010 02:13 Post Subject:

If he lives for 24 months and then dies, the life insurance is great. If he lives for 15 years, the life insurance isn't a good value.



Just read this in an earlier post, then read InsuranceExpert's initial response. I understand the comment, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

If this statement is true, then doesn't it defeat the premise that people should purchase insurance only when young and healthy?

Why would the 20-year-old with no dependents, no financial burdens, and a life expectancy of 65 years find "value" in life insurance?

Why not wait until at least 24 months prior to death to purchase life insurance? Well, the answer to that question is that we don't know when we're in those last 24 months.

The value of life insurance is not based on how long one owns the policy, but what it does for others after the insured dies.

The bet is a simple one . . . the insured bets he's not going to live very long, and the insurer bets he is. If the insured lives only a short time, the beneficiary gets a check made up of mostly insurance company money. If the insured lives a long time, the insurance company includes less of its money in the check mailed to the beneficiary.

Does the beneficiary care what ratio of insured/insurer money is involved? Hardly. They cash the check and life goes on as the insured/policyowner intended. That's the value . . . whether the policy is owned for 24 months, 24 years, or to age 121.

Posted: 05 Aug 2010 12:43 Post Subject:

well I have heard that Accelerated Benefits Rider benefits those suffering from terminal diseases. does this not cover HIV?

Posted: 05 Aug 2010 02:43 Post Subject:

well I have heard that Accelerated Benefits Rider benefits those suffering from terminal diseases. does this not cover HIV?



Unfortunately, the answer is, "It depends on how 'terminal' one is." We're all "terminal" from the time we're born.

The Accelerated Benefit Rider (sometimes called, Terminal Illness Benefit Rider) is only available if the insured is diagnosed as "terminally ill" which, according to the majority of such riders, means death is expected within 12 months (the federal definition of terminally ill, for purposes of providing hospice care under Medicare, is when death is expected within 24 months). It could be a Stage IV cancer, it could be a case of "full-blown" AIDS, it could be renal failure.

But most persons who are simply diagnosed as HIV+ are no longer saddled with the same kind of death sentence as they might have been 20-25 years ago -- "Magic" Johnson will have survived with HIV for 20 years in just another 1 or 2 -- although they still cannot be cured of the disease. Most new HIV+ cases do not result in death within 12-24 months.

So qualifying to use the ABR by simply being diagnosed as HIV+ is not realistic. But even if it did qualify, the typical rider limits the benefit to an advance of the death benefit of up to 50%, but not more than $250,000 - $300,000. A $50,000 policy would only provide a maximum of $25,000. So it is not a panacea.

Posted: 09 Aug 2010 05:49 Post Subject:

thanks that makes sense since many of the HIV+ patients may end up living more than 2 years and not really is eligible for any immediate benefits.

Posted: 30 Aug 2010 07:32 Post Subject:

Personally i don't know any company selling insurance for HIV patients. I think if any then the premiums would be very high.

Posted: 31 Aug 2010 11:46 Post Subject:

No one targets life insurance sales to persons with HIV+ status. However, there are insurers who do no medical underwriting up to $25,000 or $50,000, and will accept persons who are HIV+.

Posted: 01 Sep 2010 12:09 Post Subject:

Just read this in an earlier post, then read InsuranceExpert's initial response. I understand the comment, but let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

If this statement is true, then doesn't it defeat the premise that people should purchase insurance only when young and healthy?

Why would the 20-year-old with no dependents, no financial burdens, and a life expectancy of 65 years find "value" in life insurance?

Why not wait until at least 24 months prior to death to purchase life insurance? Well, the answer to that question is that we don't know when we're in those last 24 months.



The other reason is what you mentioned in your last post. Guaranteed issue policies are typically limited to $50,000 or less coverage.

Posted: 14 Oct 2010 08:29 Post Subject:

Any new news on Inurance Police for People living with HIV?

Posted: 14 Oct 2010 09:08 Post Subject:

Other than what's already been posted? NO. And don't hold your breath for any major changes any time soon.

Posted: 15 Oct 2010 08:25 Post Subject:

MaxHerr, what about a Jet issue policy as mentioned before?

Posted: 15 Oct 2010 09:25 Post Subject:

Jet issue still asks about HIV. One needs Guaranteed issue to qualify. They are usually limited to $50,000 and have limited benefits for the first 2-3 years.

Posted: 15 Oct 2010 02:11 Post Subject:

Insurance companies do cover HIV, as long as its not full blown AIDS. But one has to pay higher terms.

Posted: 15 Oct 2010 02:49 Post Subject:

I just wanted to say, that I am a consumer. I originally tested positive in 1988, when it WAS a death sentence, yet lo & behold here I am still healthy. I work out 5 times a week, & my viral load is undetectable. My doctor has told me theirs no reason I can't live another 20 years. HIV hasn't been a death sentence in a while, what you do ABOUT it is. I was just looking into life insurance because I'm in the process of having a child, & even though the child would be taken care of with my veteran's benefits, was just looking into the most affordable (or possible) way to get an Insurance Policy. I may just have to wait until Insurance catches up with medicine.

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