Life insurance funny business. Quacks like a duck

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:09 pm   Post subject: Life insurance funny business. Quacks like a duck  

Hello insurance guru's. I need to pick some brains. I'm new here and need some opinions. This is about a Veterans life insurance policy.

Heres what happened. Elderly father, age 80, on 14 medicines, oxygen, gravely ill. Changes his military life insurance policy over to his male friends WIFE. The day after he returns home from the hospital.



Husband and wife team of crooks.



They waited until I left the house to get groceries, supposedly to do this.



The husband: picks up his neighbor and his friend to be the witness. Another sick old man.



The policy gets changed, and remains a secret until one year later and my father dies.

A half an hour after he dies, the husband is on the telephone trying to get my fathers death certificates from the funeral home. Hum??? I think. What is up with that? i tracked it down with some detective work and it was a government life insurance policy.



Ok to make a long story short, the whole case is now in washington dc before the veterans board of appeals. Which is federal law. So its going to an appeal process and it will take a long long time there.



In the mean time, I file a civil state suit, against this couple. we are into what they call discovery and the deposition phase of the civil suit. Where questions are taken under oath.



The husband admits under OATH that HE FILLED IN HIS WIFES NAME ON THE FORM. He writes in his wifes name on my fathers life insurance form.

It appears to be my fathers signature and date? Is this fraud?



The husband says he was there at our home and he picked up the witness that eventful morning.



The witness says he drove himself, and that the husband was not there that morning. The stories do not match.



One more part of this story... There was a 45 minute evaluation done on my father by a shrink, who says he was COMPETENT.



Now ?why is a competent man NOT able to write the beneficiary person in on the form himself?



Can the husband write in his wifes name on my fathers government life insurance form? You wouldnt think so would you?????????



Now finally over at veterans affairs site, I find somewhere it says that if the veteran is competent, HE should COMPLETE and sign the form. HE should, not someone else.



What more of an important part of the life insurance form is there, than the beneficiary designation part.???



Anyone have any background or know this kind of thing?

my lawyer is busy with the civil suit, and he wont even waste his time on the VA. Because he knows its just a gigantic bureau.



anyone know where i can look this up some more.



quacks like a duck. I wonder exactly what did happen that day? How am i supposed to guess if the crooks dont know. whats your thoughts you insurance people? Shocked

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:08 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
One more part of this story... There was a 45 minute evaluation done on my father by a shrink, who says he was COMPETENT.




That means he actually signed the beneficiary change form, right? Or, was he unable to sign the form?



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:09 am   Post subject:   

Hi mightyoak,



Quote:
The husband says he was there at our home and he picked up the witness that eventful morning.


Where were you right at that point of time? Were these crooks already present in your place while you left for the grocery shop?



Quote:
Now finally over at veterans affairs site, I find somewhere it says that if the veteran is competent, HE should COMPLETE and sign the form. HE should, not someone else.


But somewhere you did mention that your father was on oxygen and was gravely ill. Do we have reasons to believe that you possess medical documents which support the idea that your Dad was competent enough? How about the competency of the old witness?



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:43 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
The husband admits under OATH that HE FILLED IN HIS WIFES NAME ON THE FORM. He writes in his wifes name on my fathers life insurance form. It appears to be my fathers signature and date? Is this fraud?


If it's your Father's signature it may not be fraud but it's certainly...exploitation of the elderly...undue influence...duress.

All "legal" reasons a judge will throw out that beneficiary change.



Quote:
What more of an important part of the life insurance form is there, than the beneficiary designation part.???


That's correct.



THE most important part of a life insurance application/policy is the beneficiary designation. We've had many, many, many threads wars on this site regarding that issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:48 am   Post subject:   

Another point that has occurred to me is that the veteran life insurance site claim that if the veteran isn't competent then the beneficiary change should occur before two impartial witnesses. Here one of the witnesses was the husband of the current beneficiary, can he be termed as impartial?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:20 pm   Post subject: Hey Thanks you guys, heres more.  

Ok, the actuall morning it was changed, I left to go get groceries . They were not in the house when I was home. They came after I had left.

Yes , the story has alot more to it... They took all his possesions, The chopped down 50 cords of standing trees(3 tractor trailer truck size loads of trees.)But the policy was a total secret from me. Apparently my mother had been listed as the beneficiary for 53 years. She died first, or i think she would have let me know about it. policy is worth only 48,000.



In an effort to stop this madness, i called every agency i could. Police, adult protective,etc.



When he went into the hospital, we requested an evaluation on him. He got a 45 minute one that asked him, easy things like his name, where he was . It came back COMPETENT.( he really wasnt)



So I have so called legally competent old man, who could NOT fill in the beneficiary himself? Doesnt look like he was competent does it?



Thats occuring to me too. The witness and the husband arent impartial. Oh and it even gets better than that! The husband gets a Jeep from my father, and sells it to the old man witness! Husband sells our jeep to the witness!



I know its elderly exploitation, In civil court, i had to go common law. Because as I'm sure you guys know. Insurance doesnt go to probate. We filed something called tortious interference of an inheritance-undue influence. Tortious has to rise to the level of a fraud, deceiptful, coercian or undue influence.

But on the technical side of the insurance end of it, i knew this was the place to come and ask.



Do you think I have enough to get this thrown out? Because i am running into and getting told this; It DOESNT matter who fills out the form!!! It only matters if he signed it.

I am hearing this kind of thing from VA. they just want RID of it.

I think IT does matter. The beneficiary is the most important part of the whole form. I Just wanted others opinions that knew insurance.

I APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE OR THOUGHTS TOO! gosh I have been on the internet for two years playing lawyer, and I dont like it either! My brain is getting tired!!!LOL I just joined this group yesterday, i have to look around on the site some more.

Any way Thanks, and any more thoughts please send them my way! I would LOVE to hear them all.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 2:28 pm   Post subject: Yes it was his signature  

YES, it appears to be his signature.He had a strange handwriting.

I am the only child. So theoretically it would have passed to me. I was the only one who was taking care of him, because he was gravely ill.

Something about this fellow(husband-con man) he gets all the old men to just adore him. The witness said He'd do anything his heart desired! Oh my god!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:44 pm   Post subject:   

I agree with your lawyer...You'd be wasting your time messing around with the VA. However, the civil suit will probably have a more favorable outcome...



It seems that your father was under duress when he signed it. There were NOT 2 impartial witnesses and 1 of the witnesses even stood to benefit from the receipt of the proceeds.



The fact that their stories don't match (the witness and the husband of beneficiary) doesn't really help their case. It makes it look like the witness had an alterior motive in it as well.



Had your father ever been diagnosed with dementia? If so, even a 45 minute psych consult can be disputed. Although many people think dementia is easily apparent, often times its effects come and go. There are people who could describe a memory from their childhood in vivid detail, and yet forget their name 15 minutes later!



It sounds like your lawyer knows what he's doing. Good Luck!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:58 pm   Post subject: Thanks and i agree  

Oh I think your right. The VA does exactly what it wants to do. They even brag about it. "we are in are own juristriction. " And your absolutely right about dementia too. Folks with dementai can even fool people for awhile.

So even paying for a lawyer to handle the VA is sort of a waste of time and money. My lawyer just lets me handle them. I'm holding my own so far. I help my lawyer with the case, because its alot of work, that I'm sure he wouldnt really have the time, if i werent filling in all the details.

But insurance do's and donts, I havent a clue. You guys are very kind and helpful! thanks so much. I'm going to stick around on this board awhile anyway.

I'm sure I'll pick up some good info here.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:47 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Apparently my mother had been listed as the beneficiary for 53 years. She died first, or i think she would have let me know about it. policy is worth only 48,000.




So, what happened afterward? Wasn't there any steps taken towards changing the beneficiary after the death of your mother? Wasn't there a contingent beneficiary in the plan?



You haven't mentioned in the post whether you were named in the policy or not.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 6:37 am   Post subject:   

Hi mightyoak..





Quote:
We filed something called tortious interference of an inheritance-undue influence. Tortious has to rise to the level of a fraud, deceiptful, coercian or undue influence.


Don't you think it would be tough since the con man gets the old man to adore? How's that possible? Did you go for any legal consultation before you filed for it?

Quote:
Folks with dementai can even fool people for awhile.


Well, that's interesting..did you experience it earlier?

Quote:
You guys are very kind and helpful! thanks so much. I'm going to stick around on this board awhile anyway.

I'm sure I'll pick up some good info here.


Thanx..definitely you'll catch up!



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:38 pm   Post subject: more  

Ok you guys. My mother had been on it since 1953. She passed first in 2002. And my father had never changed it over.

He put me on the house deed, the car, the accounts after she passed. I have no idea why he never changed the policy. Well the thing has been around since 1953. It was probably paid off in the 1970's.

I was never on The policy. (only child)It was changed from my mother to the male friends wife.

Now there maybe another angle. In the civil suit, my lawyer mentioned it would have passed intestate from my mother(dead) to me.

I did think it would be tough, but i never thought a crook would be so stupid as to admit he wrote his wifes name on the actual form?

Oh my crook left me some nice paper trails. I've been playing do it yourself private investigator. Kind of fun.

I have no idea how the con men gets the older men to love him. He's not impressing the 50 year old crowd.

We're all giggling.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:41 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Oh my crook left me some nice paper trails.


Does it reveal anything helpful?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:38 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
I did think it would be tough, but i never thought a crook would be so stupid as to admit he wrote his wifes name on the actual form?




May be he is only starting off with his conman career. Smile



By the way, I think you have a good chance to win since it'd be hard for them to prove insurable interest against your father’s policy. Though the wish of the policy holder is recognized most often in case of awarding benefits to the beneficiary but the court may listen to your position since you are the only living direct relation of the deceased.



~Jeremy
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:44 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
By the way, I think you have a good chance to win since it'd be hard for them to prove insurable interest against your father’s policy. Though the wish of the policy holder is recognized most often in case of awarding benefits to the beneficiary but the court may listen to your position since you are the only living direct relation of the deceased.






They don't have to prove insurable interest. Insurable interest exists between the owner (the OP's dad) and the insured (the OP's dad). One always has insurable interest in one's life.
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