can spouse touch life ins left to children?

Message Author
ampm-bookmark
delicious-small Add to delicious
yahoomyweb-small Add to YahooMyWeb
blinklist-small Add to BlinkList
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 6:08 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
AND...SD...I hope you understand that a Power of Attorney DIES when the Grantor of the Power of Attorney dies.




Somehow, I'm not so sure that she's getting any of this. Her best bet is that she actually did write "Power of Attorney" as her primary beneficiay. If the insurance company caught this, they would have rejected the application. However, if they didn't catch it, since "Power of Attorney" dies when she does, the money would go to the contingent beneficiary, her son.



Unfortunately, the chance that she wrote "Power of Attorney" and the insurance company didn't catch it is virtually non-existent.
InsuranceExpert
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 662


142.74 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2009 9:11 pm   Post subject: insurance  

AGAIN...I'll repeat myself. My POA IS my Benefciary, along with my son. If, for some reason, you don't agree how a Military Life insurance policy is to be written up, you can contact the 99th RSC ( my battalion) and ask for the Jag office. We update Wills/Life Insurance policies, etc, on a constant basis. The 99th is located in Oakdale, PA. I don't have the number...I'm sure you can Google it. According to THEM, I CAN my POA as my Beneficiary. If you need to question what the Military does, you can direct your questions to THEM.

sdchargersfan
Senior member
Leave a quick message

sdchargersfan

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2052


5.14 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:33 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
AGAIN...I'll repeat myself. My POA IS my Benefciary, along with my son. If, for some reason, you don't agree how a Military Life insurance policy is to be written up, you can contact the 99th RSC ( my battalion) and ask for the Jag office. We update Wills/Life Insurance policies, etc, on a constant basis. The 99th is located in Oakdale, PA. I don't have the number...I'm sure you can Google it. According to THEM, I CAN my POA as my Beneficiary. If you need to question what the Military does, you can direct your questions to THEM.




Please repeat yourself again because I'm trying very hard to understand, but clarification is needed.



What SPECIFICALLY does your primary beneficiary designation say?



Does it say "Power of Attorney"?

Does it say "Mary Smith" (or whatever your friend's name happens to be)?



If it says "Power of Attorney", it is completely nonsensical, because your POA dies when you do, thus, it is impossible for your POA to control any money post-death.



If it says "Mary Smith", the fact that she's your POA is irrelevant. At your death, the money will belong to Mary Smith. From a legal standpoint, your wishes don't mean squat. Morally, she may want to do what you want, but certain financial issues can make that impossible.



Also, you have used language "and my son" and "along with my son". However, you have stated that your son can't be a primary beneficiary. Is he a primary beneficiary? If not, his beneficary status doesn't mean anything unless your friend dies before you.



Please answer the specific questions. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm trying to be helpful. It's very clear to those of us with insurance knowledge that you have a fundemental misunderstanding.



Even if you can't put your son as the primary beneficiary (and I'd bet big money that you can), there is an easy way around this. Naming a friend is not the way around this.



In 20 years, I can't ever recall seeing a beneficiary designation that was ok for a contingent and not ok for a primary beneficiary.
InsuranceExpert
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 662


142.74 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:40 pm   Post subject:   

I am not the insurance expert(which is why I am on here...LOL), but SD my children are my primary beneficiaries(share and share alike). There is absolutely no reason that your son cannot be the primary. I don't understand why you would not name him as the primary. I don't trust anyone(even their father) to handle THEIR money if something happens to me.



I suggest you get him named as primary quickly. Otherwise somebody will be enjoying your proceeds, but it won't be your son.



_________________

I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world. This makes it hard to plan the day.

E. B. White
picklesandchampagne
New member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 18


10.19 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 12:58 pm   Post subject: insurance  

OK..I'll explain it AGAIN. My son is a Minor. I DO have a 'Primary Beneficary'. BECAUSE my son is a Minor, I CANNOT put him as 'Primary Beneficiary'. Remember..this is a MILITARY Life insurance policy I deal with. My POA ( who is my best friend) is my 'Primary Beneficiary'. We update our Life Insurance policies every 6 months ( if we need to). We actually have Insurance experts, for the Miltary, look over our Life insurance (who is Primary, Secondary, etc.) to see if we need to make any changes, if their written correctly, etc.

sdchargersfan
Senior member
Leave a quick message

sdchargersfan

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2052


5.14 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:18 pm   Post subject:   

sdchargersfan you are simply confused with the facts and you post the same non-sense all the time. That being said I'm going to give a brief explanation of the five Estate Planning documents a person needs.



#1) Revocable Trust; its primary purpose is to avoid the probate court system.



#2) Last Will & Testament goes through probate court for assets that are in your own individual name ONLY.



#3) Power of Attorney authorizes your "Attorney-in-Fact" to handle your financial affairs if you are sick or hurt or incompacitated. The power granted to your "Attorney-in-Fact" under your Power of Attorney ends and stops WHEN YOU DIE.



#4) Heathcare Surrogate; makes medical decisions on your behalf if you can't give informed consent.



#5) Living Will; is the pull the plug document if there is no medical probability of recovery from some condition.



SD what you do on these threads is evil non-sense. You hi-jack another person's thread with your non-sense comments and your standard answer is someone in the "military" told you something.



You need to stay out of someone else's thread. Your issues have all been asked and answered ad nausem and your absurd insane purpose is to challange actual professionals in the insurance business because YOU THINK we're giving incorrect information.



Now you don't know what you are talking about and/or you are confused with the facts.



You hide behind Internet anonyomity and you have been discredited and proven wrong many times on this message board.



ALL THAT BEING SAID....I love your posts because they are typical of insurance rhetorical MISINFORMATION that under educated people "think" in their brain.



So keep posting.


_________________

Gary Spicuzza, *SAFE

Copyright 1956.

No Rights Reserved.

*Self Appointed Financial Expert
GarySpicuzza
Forum Expert
Leave a quick message


Forum Expert

Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 965

Location: West Pasco County, FL
243.98 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 1:33 pm   Post subject: insurance  

I gave information, on this thread, where you can get the information on a Military Life Insurance policy and how to CORRECTLY fill one out.

sdchargersfan
Senior member
Leave a quick message

sdchargersfan

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2052


5.14 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:26 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
OK..I'll explain it AGAIN. My son is a Minor. I DO have a 'Primary Beneficary'. BECAUSE my son is a Minor, I CANNOT put him as 'Primary Beneficiary'. Remember..this is a MILITARY Life insurance policy I deal with. My POA ( who is my best friend) is my 'Primary Beneficiary'. We update our Life Insurance policies every 6 months ( if we need to). We actually have Insurance experts, for the Miltary, look over our Life insurance (who is Primary, Secondary, etc.) to see if we need to make any changes, if their written correctly, etc.




You are going to have to explain once again becuase this still isn't clear. We understand that your best friend is your POA. What we don't understand is whether the primary beneficiary is "Your Friends's Name" or "Power of Attorney". What SPECIFICALLY is the wording of your primary beneficiary?



I'm willing to bet that the beneficiary form says "Your Friend's Name". "Power of Attorney" is not a legitimate beneficiary designation.



If it says "Power of Attorney" and your insurance experts don't tell you that this isn't legitimate, they aren't experts.



If it says, "Your Friend's Name", they will tell you that it is fine. The reason that it's fine is that it's a perfectly acceptable beneficary designation. Therefore, you think that it's not an issue.



The problem isn't whether it's an acceptable beneficiary. It is. The problem is that it doesn't accomplish what you would like. Do you want all of the money to go to your friend and for her to legally be allowed to do anything that she would like with the money that gets paid?



Do you want all or some of the money to legally have to be used for your son's benefit? If that's the case, you are failing at accomplishing what you want to accomplish.



This is your kid and your blind trust in this situation can screw your kid.
InsuranceExpert
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 662


142.74 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 2:33 pm   Post subject:   

The thing SD that I would worry about more than anything is if your friend would die....I understand you have 100% full faith in trust in her...good, I hope you're right....let's assume you are and she will do exactly what you want her to do with that money where your son is concerned....the thing that worries me...should she die before your son get's all the money, (maybe she's supposed to give him the balance after a certain age, whatever, friendly agreement you have)...if she dies before then...there is nothing your boy can do, but cry, BECAUSE all of your money will go to her estate, which is not your son...that's all I'm sayin'...and your dear friend, won't have any say in it, cause she's dead...you need to do whatever you need to do to protect your boy.....



_________________

"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well being of a person or animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way." Martin Luther King Jr.
Lori
Forum Expert
Leave a quick message

Lori
Forum Expert

Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 8080

Location: Missouri
287.93 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:49 pm   Post subject: insurance  

Quote:
You are going to have to explain once again becuase this still isn't clear.
If you don't 'get it' by now, you never will. I've ALREADY explained this SEVERAL times.
sdchargersfan
Senior member
Leave a quick message

sdchargersfan

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2052


5.14 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:53 pm   Post subject: insurance  

..............AGAIN ( listen up this time!!),.......my POA IS my Beneficiary, along with my son. on my Will, she is stated as POA. On my Life Insurance, her NAME is there. The Military has guidelines for Life Insurance policies ( I think I was clear when I posted this, as well). OBVIOUSLY..........SOME people have trouble accepting their guidelines. However...........that's how it is.

sdchargersfan
Senior member
Leave a quick message

sdchargersfan

Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 2052


5.14 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:14 am   Post subject:   

SDCharger, please don't give up on this excruciatingly painful exchange. It's very difficult to have a conversation with you because you have a serious problem, but don't realize it. Because you don't understand that you have a problem, I'm banging my head against the wall trying to get you to fix something that you don't know is broken.



I hope that you realize that the reason that I'm hammering you on this subject has nothing to do with me being a jerk. I am trying to be helpful. Nobody is contradicting anything that I have said because I am correct.



First of all, look at your will. Wills don't name someone to have Power of Attorney. POA's die when you do. You may have named her executor of your estate. She may be named guardian of your child. A trust may be formed and she may be the trustee who controls the money. She does not have POA when you die.



Please correct me if I'm wrong. Your friend is the beneficiary. Your son is the contingent beneficiary.



Let's assume for a second that you just messed up your terminology for a second. Your friend is going to be the trustee for the money that is going to go to your son. Your will spells out everything that is going to go to him and at your death, a trust will be set up and everything will be put into this trust that your friend will manage for the benefit of your son.



Let's look at what happens when you die. Life insurance is distributed based upon beneficiary designation. "Mary Smith" is your beneficiary. Junior SDCharger is the contingent beneficiary. Because Mary Smith is still alive, all of the money goes to "Mary Smith". Your will is irrelevant. The fact that she is trustee is irrelevant. The money has been left personally to Mary Smith. The money belongs 100% to her.



If you want the money to go to your son, but for Mary Smith to control this money for him, the primary beneficiary needs to be changed to something along the lines of "Trustee Under the Will of the Insured". You then, in your will, name Mary Smith as the trustee of a trust for Junior. This way, the money will legally belong to your son and not to Mary Smith.



What if you want Mary Smith to personally have some of the money? You would have 2 primary beneficiaries. Let's say that you wanted a 50/50 split. The first primary beneficiary would be "Mary Smith 50%". The second primary beneficiary would something along the lines of "Trustee Under the Will of the Insured 50%".



By naming "Mary Smith" the primary beneficary and Junior as the contingent, you have effectively cut Junior out completely. He gets NOTHING!!!



It's ok that the military has guidelines. I guarantee that the military guidelines are not written in such a way that minor children can't receive anything. Instead, they may be written that they can't receive anything directly. In other words, some sort of trust must be set up for them. This is common. The work around for this is not naming someone other than your child. This does not work. The work around is naming a trust that is for the benefit of your child.



What you are doing is perfectly kosher with the military. They don't care that you are leaving everything for your friend and nothing for your son.

InsuranceExpert
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 662


142.74 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:53 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
..............AGAIN ( listen up this time!!),.......my POA IS my Beneficiary, along with my son. on my Will, she is stated as POA. On my Life Insurance, her NAME is there. The Military has guidelines for Life Insurance policies ( I think I was clear when I posted this, as well). OBVIOUSLY..........SOME people have trouble accepting their guidelines. However...........that's how it is.




You are correct that the military has very specific guidelines...However, there is a way arround it that will offer you the most protection possible. I have dealt with several insurance cases regarding both active duty and retired army personnel.



You need to set up a special trust and an estate. Your best friend can absolutely be your Power of Attorney...but it is not so wise to have her listed as beneficiary on the life insurance policy and here is why...

This may be unlikely, but possible...If you pass away and your POA, very upset, wrecks her car and is killed on the way to the funeral...Your money may very well go to her estate. It could be challenged, but would be very difficult and create an incredible situation.



You can set up a trust for your son and name your POA as guardian...but you will also have to have a contingency plan and name other guardians as well. You also can set up an estate in your name and your POA can be executor, but your will can specify that everything be managed for your son's best interest. (Be specific...college...etc.)



You CAN have your estate OR the trust listed as the primary beneficiary no matter how old your son is. If you have any questions on how to set it up...let me know!
ChrisBantly
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 381

Location: Upstate SC
1.16 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 1:55 am   Post subject:   

and I forgot to reiterate...Power of Attorney ceases at death. A POA can only sign when you would sign if able (obviously dead people don't sign things).

ChrisBantly
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 381

Location: Upstate SC
1.16 Dollars($)

PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2009 11:53 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
but it is not so wise to have her listed as beneficiary on the life insurance policy and here is why...

This may be unlikely, but possible...If you pass away and your POA, very upset, wrecks her car and is killed on the way to the funeral...Your money may very well go to her estate. It could be challenged, but would be very difficult and create an incredible situation.




Chris, why use a crazy example? Let's play the odds and go with the assumption that she's not going to get killed on the way to the funeral. The money belongs to the friend. Anyway that you slice it, the money will belong to the friend and not to Junior.



Even if her friend wants to give Junior the money, there is no way for her to do it without negatively impacting her own family (via reduced ability to gift in the future without taxation).



Let's just face the facts that SDCharger is (unintentionally) hurting her friend and/or her child by not using proper* beneficiary titles.



*By "Proper", I mean beneficiary titles that are designed to accomplish what she wants to accomplish.



I have a nagging thought with these conversations with SDCharger that what really is happening here is that she cares more about her friend than her child and she doesn't want to make a change because it might not make her friend happy.
InsuranceExpert
Senior member
Leave a quick message



Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Posts: 662


142.74 Dollars($)

Quick Reply
Your Name
Subject
Message body
All times are GMT
 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next  
Page 3 of 4


Get a Quote
Ask Community Experts

flash plugin

Quick Links

Must See

Community

Hot topics in forums

Latest in blogs

AmPmInsure on Facebook



Page loaded in 0.304 seconds.