I made my own materials and invoicing system after trying several on the market.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:30 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
This is the same for every business and every person in our world right now




I think the reference was not relevant to present conditions, but to the last five years perhaps. Regardless, materials and supplies charges should keep pace with all price increases and not just on a bi-anual basis.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:44 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Regardless, materials and supplies charges should keep pace with all price increases and not just on a bi-anual basis.
I couldn't agree more with you Mike...and I wish there was an easy way to do that...actually (i forgot) Mitchell does have a program (can't remember the name of it) that you put in the paint code and the manu...and it is supposed to figure actual cost based on, (i'd assume) info supplied by the manu (ie.dupont-ppg, whatever)...I do no have this program on my computer, but one of the 'trainers' for the company I work for does..I called him once to ask that he run it thru this program (the estimate I was working on)..I also had the invoices from the shop...(this shop uses dupont)...it came out pretty close as I remember...I did have to adjust it alittle, then of course added mark up..one problem with this is though, each shop doesn't pay the same even if it's the same product..the discounts are different and based on amount purchased..at any rate, I think the reason the hourly p&m had stayed is of course it's easier.. Rolling Eyes I personally have no issue at all with any shop that brings to my attention if they have been shorted on a particular job on p&m and then get invoices review and pay them what they are owed...(typically will be a bigger job) problem is it's a case by case or car by car deal...the vast majority of the time, the hourly still works...



what to do, what to do? guess they should just put me and you (mike) in charge of the world and we could get things straightened out p.d.q. Wink


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:06 pm   Post subject:   

It's not rocket science, it's just simple math. I made my own materials and invoicing system after trying several on the market. I use a simple quick books inventory system. I can calculate my use of materials by the oz including paints, reducers, adhesives, catalysts, and clears. I can calculate masking by the foot for interior jambs, exterior, bordering tape, total car masking etc. I can cost the amount of abrasives, grinder discs, welding spools of wire, acid brushes, dust masks, latex & nitrile gloves, razor blades, drill bits and a multitude of other products.



If a shop owner would calculate the cost of every product taken either from a bulk source or individual application and add in a reasonable profit margin they would be shocked to realize the amount of materials use per job that is not overhead, that is not being charged for which is coming out of shop revenue streams or from other services.



It's a time consuming process to do this on every job and some programs have component pricing for example when replacing quarter panels or skinning a door. It's an averaging process but not necessarily an accurate accounting, but it's still better than refinish hours times an arbitrary or capricious dollar amount. There are people working on programs that calculate the cost of refinishing or repairing by the square foot of a vehicle adding in other factors. But at least, I can verify my accounting of product use since I developed my own system. It would be very easy to explain my cost of materials and supplies to a small claims court judge if necessary. Not sure how anyone could defend the present system or to justify it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:39 pm   Post subject:   

Lori,



Quote:
Quote:
When you want to use a scale to grade, ''this shop is better so they deserve 50 bucks an hour, and this hole in the wall shop

pretty much sucks so they only get 25 bucks....




That's not what I'm saying at all.





Quote:
sorry Fred but what else could you mean by
Quote:
: do you calculate different rates for different classes of Repairers?





Oh... maybe things like an repairer with 2 employees and a 2000 sq. ft. shop as opposed to one with 30 employees and a 60,000 sq. ft. shop. Fenced in storage facilities. Shuttle service, One that supplies Free Office space for insurance personnel. [oh wait those guys give insurer's a discount for that privilege (sic)] etc.





Quote:
again if that's not 'right' then WHO decides WHO is worth more?




Oh,... Maybe willing reasonable consumers of each and every provider of those services.



Certainly not a bias entity that stands to Profit from its obvious ability to suppress the entire Collision Repair Profession. What entity might that be??? I'm thinking the Insurance industry and their employee's.



On that thought... the current scheme enacted by the insurance industry (the one suppressing Collision Repair rates) makes about as much sense as having the Collision Repair Profession setting __The__ Prevailing rate that __All__ insurance companies must accept as full payment for insurance premiums.



-------------------------------------------------------



For some time now I've been wondered why you've been unable to understand/comprehend what I consider Basic Business Principals. Then after reading your comment below....



Quote:
Is your shop worth 5 more an hour than the dealership shop around the corner? (i'm sure it is but you get the point ) and who and how is that gauged? Do you ask a shop owner, 'ok PROVE to me how long you've been doing body work..guess your first years W2's will do it, showing you (at age 17) worked at 'billy bob's body and tow' and for every 10 years you get 5 bucks more an hour." ..... do you still have your first pay stub or w2? I sure don't that's be way too many years ago, and time would've surely turned those papers to dust by now do you see my point though fred? who decides and are YOU going to be happy when they do?




I read that a second time and it finally hit me... thinking Duh... as I slapped my forehead with my palm.... Your seeing all this from an Employee's point of view...!! Why didn't I realize this Months ago and save us both a lot of frustrating Typing.



Sorry for all the confusion.



I promise in the future to avoid discussing Basic Business Principals.



Sincerely,



FK,
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:23 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Oh,... Maybe willing reasonable consumers of each and every provider of those services
And you think that consumers that are paying out of their own pockets would be unbiased? are you kidding...you'd be back to 20 bucks an hour...if the general consuming polulation got a vote!
Quote:
the current scheme enacted by the insurance industry (the one suppressing Collision Repair rates
Fred this ''scheme'' as you call it has been going on well over 20 years...where you been?
Quote:
Your seeing all this from an Employee's point of view...!! Why didn't I realize this Months ago and save us both a lot of frustrating Typing.
meaning an employee of the shop? ins. carrier? I don't care what the rates are fred, I wish you the best, hope you make 100 bucks an hour how would/could that possibly affect me? What I wrote about YOUR opinion and idea that all shops should not be paid the same, the ''better'' (i assume you count yourself among them)...shops DESERVE to be paid more per hour, but you can only come up with...first...''quality and experience'' (ok you'd have to prove the years of experience to get it, you decide how if you don't like my idea)..then YOU decide purely by the fact that a shop is large makes it better and thus worth more per hour!!! ShockedSurprised are you ka-raise-ee? Surprised ...watch out fred i see some of your fellow shop owners getting all wound up about that one as well they should...why should the big boys make more money an hour...Fox better than your shop huh? .. Rolling Eyes how about the Hendricks? they DESERVE more money per hour than you and your guys...? Simply by vurture that they have more money to put into their business...yeah that makes zero sense...course I guess that's how the rich get richer



Might interest you (or not) to know that I too fred was a business owner...started that puppy from zero, a blank building...built it up and in five years sold it for a really nice profit..so I understand basic buisness principles...You my friend are the one that wants to pay shops differently...and now have decided the 'heavy hitters' deserve more than the med to small local shops...Carstar oughta be happy to hear that from you. Rolling Eyes


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:23 am   Post subject:   

.

.



Lori,



That Rant was an excellent example of my "seeing things from an employee point of view" Point. But as promised, I will continue to avoid discussing Basic Business Principals.



Oh, one thing though. About your "Current" Scheme comment?? The Democrat & Republican two party system/scheme has been around a lot more than 20 years, and ya know what??? They are still current. And they will stay that way until something else replaces them. I do hope something else replaces both of these schemes sooner instead of later.



FK,



PS, In case your worried... No... I'm not holding my breath till either one of them changes. Smile

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:20 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
About your "Current" Scheme comment??
fred i was quoteing you...see
Quote:
the current scheme enacted by the insurance industry (the one suppressing Collision Repair rates
fred, you WERE talking about rates and the 'survey' system when you typed this...refering to that (surveys) as a scheme.... Confused where in the hell did this come from?
Quote:
The Democrat & Republican two party system/scheme has been around a lot more than 20 years, and ya know what???
geeze fred...re-read your own post...here it is..

Quote:
On that thought... the current scheme enacted by the insurance industry (the one suppressing Collision Repair rates) makes about as much sense as having the Collision Repair Profession setting __The__ Prevailing rate that __All__ insurance companies must accept as full payment for insurance premiums
The 'scheme' you and i were talking about was the survey, that has been around 20 years or better....still don't know what made you go off on the two party system rant or what on earth that has to do with ANYTHING in this thread.. Confused Although I could agree with you about a lot of it, still...WAY off top topic ...please come back fred.. Wink
Quote:
That Rant was an excellent example of my "seeing things from an employee point of view" Point.
(THAT wasn't a rant)...still don't know which employee you're talking about...and why do you say that like it's a dirty word? Confused (employee) is an employer better than an employee? and if so how?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:56 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Lori

Moderator



Post: 19 Mar 2009 22:54 :



---------------------------------------



Quote:



? ¿



Hey Fred...how'd you do that? Smile




Lori,



I just Today noticed the Question above.





¥¥¥¥ ¿¿¿¿¿¿ ? ¿ ? ¿ ¼ ½ ¾ ¢ ® © » « ± ÷ Ø



From time to time when I get Curious and/or Bored I will open Microsoft System files (along with other Non-Microsoft Software files) with a text program like Note Pad or Word Pad. Then visually scan them for "Phone Home" modules.



For example, AUHOOK.DLL : When one first sets-up their Computer they will be prompt to select if they want Window's to Automatically check for "Up-dates" every time you start your computer _or_ if you would prefer to do that manually.



This leads one to assume that if you check [automatic] your computer will go to Microsoft's update source etc.

And if one chooses to manually check for up-dates your computer will _not_ contact Microsoft.



AUHOOK.DLL is the module that Microsoft uses for up-date checking. The rub here is that if one selects [auto-update] this program sends a packet to : http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com This URL is embedded in the file AUHOOK.DLL



But on the other hand if one selects to [manually up-date] this program sends a packet to : http://www.microsoft.com This URL is also embedded in the file AUHOOK.DLL



My point [sort of ] No matter which you select your computer will contact Microsoft every time you or anyone Starts your computer. Buy a used computer at a yard sale and go on-line. Guess what?? Microsoft knows where that computer is at. Spooky ain't it..!!!



OOP's I got a little side tracked, sorry about that.



Anyway... These Machine Code programs generate a lot of "Strange" text characters that one can Highlight, Copy, and Store in a Text file for other uses. Like posting on Discussion Boards.



FK,
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:31 pm   Post subject:   

Lori, Here's what _YOU_ typed.



Quote:
Fred this ''scheme'' as you call it has been going on well over 20 years...where you been?




Which implies to me that I'm behind the times and some how "Current" is the wrong word to use??? Sooooooo to help you comprehend I gave another example [political parties]... even though Dem's & Rep's have been around for a long time... they are still Current.



I guess you missed that one too.





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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:33 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:
Spooky ain't it..!!!
yep big brother, err big bill are watching.. Wink
Quote:
These Machine Code programs generate a lot of "Strange" text characters that one can Highlight, Copy, and Store in a Text file for other uses. Like posting on Discussion Boards.
Wink

Quote:
I guess you missed that one too.
geeze fred plz don't be snotty i'm on day three of trying to quit smoking after 37 years straight.. Rolling EyesWink No I didn't mean at all that you were behind the times, just that you know as well as i do that the rate survey (schemes as you call them) have been going on well over 20 years...i meant by 'where have you been?' what have you done to change it? you're still giving them the answers right?


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:18 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
you're still giving them the answers right?




Giving » Who « the answers ?? To » What « questions ??





FK,



PS, on the Smoking... "Git Errr Done"... Free yourself from that bad habit.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:23 am   Post subject:   

PS, I've noticed in this Thread that my Dollars don't change [increase] when I submit a Post.. ??



What's up with that?



FK,
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:26 am   Post subject:   

Quote:
Giving » Who « the answers ?? To » What « questions ??
the 'survey-ors' whomever calls or sends a letter asking what your door rates are..

Quote:
PS, I've noticed in this Thread that my Dollars don't change [increase] when I submit a Post.. ??What's up with that?
Cause it's in the 'pub'...no payments for posts in the pub..





Quote:
PS, on the Smoking... "Git Errr Done"... Free yourself from that bad habit
I'm tryin' hard buddy, day four!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:08 pm   Post subject:   

Quote:


Quote:
Quote: Giving » Who « the answers ?? To » What « questions ??






Quote:
the 'survey-ors' whomever calls or sends a letter asking what your door rates are..




I don't participate.



I do remember one morning receiving a Mail survey From state farm, back in the 1980's. Even without a sip of coffee and only one eye open it was obviously rigged. Soooo it went into my "when I need a Chuckle read this stuff again" File.



FK,
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:14 pm   Post subject:   

Fk, I just tossed a farmers insurance group survey in the round file yesterday. What is the point of a survey if they want to know what your current rates are, they already know. They had my address, they have my federal ID and they have my last rates on an estimate provided to a customer. Why don't they ask, what is your posted door rate, not the prevailing rate forced upon shops in our area. Or what is the rate you plan to use in the coming months to make a reasonable profit.



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